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Discuss Running a shed from an extension lead - Part P in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Outofphase
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    Outofphase EF Member

    Location:
    England
    Hi all! First things first, I'm not a qualified electrician but I consider myself competent and very safety conscious. I've been tinkering with electronics for a long time. But I need help :D

    I've wired up my shed/workshop with 4 double sockets and a light fitting. Sockets are on 2.5mm cable, lights are on 1.5mm. All earthed properly. This is all in 20mm conduit for mechanical protection. I have installed a consumer unit in the shed with 3 MCB's fed from 100a RCD. The 4 double sockets are split into 2 circuits, each pair through its own 16a MCB. The light switch is fed from a 6a MCB. The consumer unit is supplied through a 32a Isolator switch.

    The power to all of this is supplied from a weatherproof lead (about 8 meters) through my bedroom window and plugged in my bedroom (ring) with a standard 13a plug. Before anybody stains their pants, I know the limits of this setup. I only run a 1.5kw fan heater and the 60w incan light at the same time. If I use power tools, the heater gets turned off. I always check the 13a plug indoors for heat, and the lead gets coiled into my shed overnight. I never get the plug warm in use.

    Anyway, I want more watts available. I had the idea of using a 32a blue 3pin caravan-style plug to hook up to the shed. I'll have to get an electrician in to run the 6mm t+e from the consumer unit to the 32a socket outside the house. I have some 6mm armoured cable already.

    My question is, will my shed then be subject to regulations etc? I will only plug the shed in when I need power. If I can't get a beefy 32a socket installed, I will continue using the 13a lead. I just have to be careful with load.

    Any help/stories of experience would be great!

    Thanks.
     
  2. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    why not get your electrician to run the SWA and give you a permanent safe installation to the shed.
     
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  3. Outofphase
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    Outofphase EF Member

    Location:
    England
    I would like the option of unplugging the whole thing, although it's on an isolator switch. Would the electrician have to inspect the shed for safety? I've done it all to a high standard, but most of the wire is new-old-stock pre-2004 red and black. Could that be a problem?
     
  4. dmxtothemax
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    dmxtothemax Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Business Name:
    David Haddock Electronic Repairs
    [QUOTE="Outofphase, post: 1238070,

    My question is, will my shed then be subject to regulations [/QUOTE]

    YES of course it will !

    Basically anything that is connected to the mains wiring in any way,
    is covered by code.
    So you always where covered by code !
    You have gotten away with it, simply because you haven't been caught yet.
     
  5. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    as long as the wiring/installation is safe, the should not be a problem. most sparks are not colour predjudiced.
     
  6. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    A new circuit tho a commando socket or some swa to the shed.... Hum let me think about that.

    Either way it falls under part p.....
     
  7. Outofphase
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    Outofphase EF Member

    Location:
    England
    So I'm breaking the law by plugging into my house? My shed is basically a glorified extension lead. Would the 32a plug be considered a valid 'loophole'? It's not part of the house, anymore than the kettle is.
     
  8. Outofphase
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    Outofphase EF Member

    Location:
    England
    Thanks, I thought that would be the case. Is it a case of the spark looking at it and saying 'yeah, that looks good to me mate' or is there a lot more involved?
     
  9. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    basically, get a spark to quote, but don't be persuaded to go over the top for what is just a shed. there's ways and means to do it safely without spending mega bucks. if you post your location, one of us may be close enough to advise.
     
  10. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    A self certifying part P spark will design, install and test...... For a fee

    I'm just doing a quote for a similar job, the cable alone is about £165
     
  11. Outofphase
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    Outofphase EF Member

    Location:
    England
    I think that'll be the best bet. If he deems my wiring 'not safe' does he have a duty to take action? Should I have enquired before installing? Thanks for the sound advice so far by the way
     
  12. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    If the spark deems your install unsafe I doubt they will connect the shed, or even and more likely not even provide a quote......
     
  13. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    he can't take action, all he can do is advise if its OK or not. . we are not the electric gestapo.
     
  14. dmxtothemax
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    dmxtothemax Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Business Name:
    David Haddock Electronic Repairs
    QUOTE [So I'm breaking the law by plugging into my house]
    YES !
    No matter how well or safe you do it !
    if your not qualified then it's illegal.
    We can advise you on the safest way to do it !
    But in the end it's not legal.
    Which puts your insurance at risk.
     
  15. FatAlan
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    FatAlan Trainee Trainee Access

    Location:
    Surrey
    ...your name shall also go on zee list! :D
     
  16. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    What he said
     
  17. hightower
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    hightower Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Durham
    This is your second post, and I don't get what you mean by illegal.... Unless I'm mistaken, we're not Australia where DIY electrics is actually illegal. DIY electrical work can be perfectly legal and safe in the UK.

    EDIT: Just noticed your profile does indeed say Australia, so I think this is the source of your confusion. DIY electrics is not illegal in the UK.
     
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  18. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    But failure to comply to the building regs is.
     
  19. kingeri
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    kingeri Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Things like this just serve to highlight how wishy-washy the UK system really is. DIY electrics should either be allowed or not, then everyone at least would know where they stand. I went to a chap recently who had changed all his sockets and switches to fancy chrome fittings, which he is perfectly entitled to do, but when he turned the power on all sorts of things went wrong. He had wired a neutral and line together in a light switch, reversed polarity on several sockets, and lost earth continuity on a ring final. But in the past I have seen whole new circuits installed DIY style to very high standards. The whole system needs looking at, really. Probably.
     
  20. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    It should be though (it sounds as if the OP in this case has done a competent job, we think).

    However, there's a forum I peruse, which has a section on diy renovations. One guy has refurbished his house, doing the electrics himself. He repositioned an old lead sheath supply, bending the cable :eek:. Installed CU, final circuits etc. Asked for a new meter to be installed. When they came to fit it, the supply engineers found the property had no earthing facility from the lead sheath!

    The bloke is lavished with praise about his handy work. He found an electrician to carry out an EICR on his new work.
     
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  21. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

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    Location:
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    It should be though
     
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  22. LeeH
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    LeeH Insert witty monkey comment here. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Lincs
    'PAT' test the shed.
     
  23. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

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    Location:
    Northampton
    Well it is stationary equipment
     
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  24. bluestar
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    bluestar Regular EF Member

    YES of course it will !

    Basically anything that is connected to the mains wiring in any way,
    is covered by code.
    So you always where covered by code !
    You have gotten away with it, simply because you haven't been caught yet.[/QUOTE]
    the regs are only up to and appertaining to the fixed installation what is plugged into a socket is beyond the scope of the regs
    reg 420 covers this (cant remember the full reg number)
     
  25. Outofphase
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    Outofphase EF Member

    Location:
    England
    Found this:

    Q3: To what types of electrical work does Part P apply?

    • In or attached to a dwelling
    • In the common parts of buildings serving one or more dwellings, but excluding power supplies to lifts
    • In a building that receives its electricity from a source located within or shared with a dwelling, and
    • In a garden or in or on land associate with a building where the electricity supply is from a source located within or shared with a dwelling
    I don't know to what extend this is applied. If I roll a normal 13a extension lead out into my shed, powered my install via 13a plug, surely that wouldn't be subject to regs?

    I'm not trying to pick holes in the regs, but I'm trying to work out the grey area I've stepped into.

    Bluestar, if you could find a source for that information for me to read through, that would be great! I had a quick google search but didn't find anything new.

    It would be legal plug a caravan in with a 32a plug wouldn't it? Maybe I need some wheels and a tow hook for my shed.

    EDIT: Just to add - I have tested everything with a 500v Megger (all fine), all connections are secure and robust, and no risk of water ingress. All fittings/conduit/sockets/MCB's/wires are new and unused.
     
  26. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Matey.... Part P applies to new circuits, rewires, fuseboard changes and a few other things in England - a dedicated 32A commando socket would fall under this.

    As it stands an extension lead "fudge" doesn't
     
  27. Outofphase
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    Outofphase EF Member

    Location:
    England
    Murdoch, you don't like this whole idea do you? ;)
     
  28. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

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    Location:
    Northampton
    Don't think any competent Electrician does, like it
     
  29. Outofphase
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    Outofphase EF Member

    Location:
    England
    I'll find out when the time comes I suppose!
     
  30. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Up to 13A you can plug in what you want.... but over that, how ever you look at it, it will fall under Part P...

    Whether I like it or not is irrelevant...
     
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  31. bluestar
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    bluestar Regular EF Member

    just for arguments sake his circuit up to the commando socket will be subject to regs and part p
    but reg 430 note 4 says anything plugged in on a flexible cable is beyond the scope of the regs
    so now we are saying that part p of the building regs is above the iee regs or should we argue that his shed is on a flexible cable and plug and therefore not darkwood asked this very question on here about a jet wash
     
  32. Outofphase
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    Outofphase EF Member

    Location:
    England
    The circuit from the house CU to the Commando socket would be wired by the electrician (if he agrees to, that is) so the fixed part would be legal/certified etc I believe?
     
  33. Outofphase
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    Outofphase EF Member

    Location:
    England
    Any written proof of this? Not trying to argue, but if there's mixed opinions then somebody must be wrong... :p
     
  34. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Best you read what's notifiable under part P.
     
  35. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    Anything that is plugged in, or connected via a switch is subject to the ISITEE, Which is a requirement of the IET
     
  36. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Hi - just my opinion, but Part P is law and so BS7671 could not invalidate or over rule any requirement specified by it. As fixed wiring installed in a dwelling or its outbuilding is the specific focus and intent of Part P of the Building Regulations I vote the shed wiring is Part P, temporary supply cable or no. On a lighter note ... if the shed had wheels a better case could be made perhaps?
     
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