Scotland, Old style lighting JB, Will it pass an EICR, Photo attached

[buzzlightyear]

if it was me get a some thin MDF place inside the chocolate box.
get a strip of block connectors screw to the MDF and tidy up the cables job done .and don't for get to put a lid on!

 

[7029 dave]

I would change to plastic AB.

 

[westward10]

It would be highly unlikely an EICR would pick that up imo. Or do you all go check the loft thoroughly?

See Section D of the EICR model format in Appendix 6 BS7671.

 

[buzzlightyear]

See Section D of the EICR model format in Appendix 6 BS7671

I can see
that happing with all the loft installation on top of it .

 

[westward10]

I find the cable below the box which appears to have cotton covering and red, blue and green conductors more interesting even though it is probably dead.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

get a strip of block connectors

Nah. Handful of Wagos and 20 mins and you can have that spick and span and safe. I quite like octopus wiring, where everything meets at a convenient and accessible point. Poking a load of CPCs in one choc block is no good but a couple of 8-way Wagos will sort it all out nicely.
No idea what you want with a 6mm CPC & it doesn't need bonding. It's an accessory, just earth it to the CPC like you would a metal light fitting.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I find the cable below the box which appears to have cotton covering and red, blue and green conductors more interesting

That's actually Blue / Orange / Green because it's an old phone cable.

 

[westward10]

That's actually Blue / Orange / Green because it's an old phone cable.

Ah that answers that then.

 

[Toneyz]

if it was me get a some thin MDF place inside the chocolate box.
get a strip of block connectors screw to the MDF and tidy up the cables job done .and don't for get to put a lid on!

Could change it to one of these there are more way units available.

 

[Pete999]

I’d be worried if you are wiring lighting in series connection.

Yes one out all out

 

[The Ghost]

Section D

So what part are you referring to? The bit about wont be inspected? Or inspection of other electrical equipment?

 

[GB.Kayak]

Nah. Handful of Wagos and 20 mins and you can have that spick and span and safe. I quite like octopus wiring, where everything meets at a convenient and accessible point. Poking a load of CPCs in one choc block is no good but a couple of 8-way Wagos will sort it all out nicely.
No idea what you want with a 6mm CPC & it doesn't need bonding. It's an accessory, just earth it to the CPC like you would a metal light fitting.

Hi Lucien, ' ... 8-way Wagos ... ', hmmmmmm; with ~ 10 'Line' and 11 'Neutral' conductors at least, visible on very close inspection, to 'common', a couple of Wagos really wouldn't ' ... sort it ...'! Would you 'extend' the 8 'ways'? If so, what would you use to connect them together?

 

[GB.Kayak]

Could change it to one of these there are more way units available.

Hi Anthony, except the unit that you have linked to is purely a method of connecting 6 cables together ... 'power in' to 5 'subordinate' devices! It would appear that perhaps as many as 2 of Surewire's devices, 1 SW4L-MF and 1 SW2L-MF > Products and Benefits - Surewire - http://www.surewire.co.uk/products/light-and-switch-junction-boxes/products-and-benefits/ <, would be required to replace the arrangement in the picture. Their advertising banner on their website suggests that they have a 6-way version, but there is no information about it in the 'detailed' descriptions of their products. However, given that there are 2 ends of 3-Core + CPC at this point, the method of installation of a single (?) 2-way switch function used here would either require modification of the existing cabling installation or some 'extraneous' connections to be made outside of the Surewire junction box to deliver a Twin + CPC Switch 'In' to their 'simple' standard approach! Requiring the retention of the existing box alongside 2 new junction boxes or the introduction of 3 new junction boxes!

 

[GB.Kayak]

Hi

I have taken on a kitchen rewire, with a utility & bathroom addition too, In the loft there is an old style junction box for the lighting circuit, I've seen this method before in many old council houses, Its fed from a 10A mcb with 1.5mm t&e & it is a central point for lots of loop fed switching & a common for many feeds, basically just allowing many parallel connections.

I was always trained to wire in series for lighting, keeping my neutrals at the switches, I'm wondering if this breaches any wiring regulations, The maximum load does not exceed 10A for the over all circuit, the 1.5mm t&e feed is about 10 meters & does come through some light fiber wool insulation, so I'm happy that no cable carrying capacities have been breached, & currently plan to tidy up the JB somewhat, with some extra earthing & better connections.

It will be a minor works certificate for this one, as there is no new circuit.

Thoughts please, would you pass it?

View attachment 39736

Hi De, I came across a similar arrangement about a week before your post up here in Forres! It looks like you have 4 or 5 lights there, at least one being 2-way switched. In my case the 'containment' was a 'Bakelite' type low profile square box. The bottom had broken and lacked 2 or 3 of the 4 fixing 'posts' for the lid. None of the CPCs were 'sleeved' and they were 'loosely' twisted together in 'groups' of 6-8 conductors. Unfortunately I did not take a picture! The one box served a circuit providing lighting to 13 'locations', 11 rooms plus front and back door outside lights, plus the doorbell! The 'box' itself provided 10 switch 'functions' including that for the back door, and 2 spotlight 'rails' in the Kitchen as well as one area which is as yet 'unidentified'. It also provides onward power 'feeds' to the lounge light and doorbell arrangements! 22 cables in all, 2 of which were 3-Core + CPC.

 

[GB.Kayak]

The main issue you have here is that the adaptable box is not earthed but fitting a separate 6.0 cpc is not necessarily the easiest solution. The other issue in my opinion is that terminating 8 or 9 conductors into block connectors is never going to provide a connection of ensured integrity.

Hi w10 ... pedantic, I know, but 10 - 12 by my count!

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Would you 'extend' the 8 'ways'? If so, what would you use to connect them together?

Yes, with a piece of wire. If this were regular loop-in wiring via each lighting point there would be half a dozen or more CPC connections in series between DB and final point. Here there would be only two. You could use a solid screw-terminal commoning bar but TBH I'd daisy-chain two 8-way grey 773s.

 

[GB.Kayak]

Yes, with a piece of wire. If this were regular loop-in wiring via each lighting point there would be half a dozen or more CPC connections in series between DB and final point. Here there would be only two. You could use a solid screw-terminal commoning bar but TBH I'd daisy-chain two 8-way grey 773s.

Thanks LN, I ended up with 7 WAGOBOX Light and a couple of WAGOBOX junction boxes.

 

[Pete999]

Hi

I have taken on a kitchen rewire, with a utility & bathroom addition too, In the loft there is an old style junction box for the lighting circuit, I've seen this method before in many old council houses, Its fed from a 10A mcb with 1.5mm t&e & it is a central point for lots of loop fed switching & a common for many feeds, basically just allowing many parallel connections.

I was always trained to wire in series for lighting, keeping my neutrals at the switches, I'm wondering if this breaches any wiring regulations, The maximum load does not exceed 10A for the over all circuit, the 1.5mm t&e feed is about 10 meters & does come through some light fiber wool insulation, so I'm happy that no cable carrying capacities have been breached, & currently plan to tidy up the JB somewhat, with some extra earthing & better connections.

It will be a minor works certificate for this one, as there is no new circuit.

Thoughts please, would you pass it?

View attachment 39736

Will this JB remain accessible?

 

[AJshep]

Alot of discussion about an RB4. I quite frequently use this method of wiring still, as it takes the pressure of lighting rewires, although I know the new build way is switch feeds. If this is carried out correctly, this is a really nice wiring method.

If this were me I'd probably change the box to a proper purpose built RB4 joint box, remark and sleeve the cables a purpose built box gives you the ability to give you appopriate fixing method for fixing the connector strips, and you don't need to worry about earthing the enclosure.

It's in the loft (classified as accessible) so you can use connectors if you like, if you do I recommend linking the neutral and Earths through so you can use at least 2 for each of these. (Similar to what you find in a Drayton Central heating wiring centre).
Wagos are preferred for good reason and are considered maintenace free, so if you find one of these under floorboards then you have no option but to use these. You would still need to find a method of securing the connections and box though so you would have to take that into account, if you found one of these under floorboards.

 

[123]

Thanks LN, I ended up with 7 WAGOBOX Light and a couple of WAGOBOX junction boxes.

9 JB's to replace 1?
Wago do a Wagobox XL, much larger than its other versions and very useful at times.