So AFDD then for all Landlords???

[Vortigern]

I was just thinking if NAPIT are coding no RCD on lighting, to comply with the new LL law/S.I. as C2 then presumably we would also have to say absence of AFDD is likewise C2? And how about SPD as well. This surely can't be right, making regs retrospective.

 

[Ian1981]

Nothing wrong with that.

Doesn’t mean there is a requirement to fit them though. You don’t need to ask the customer. You don’t need to do a risk assessment.

Similar situation to RCBO vs dual RCD.

Interesting that the wholesalers I use say that they still sell far more non SPD boards than ones with SPD fitted.

Im not saying a blanket statement that they must be installed, but I do not see them as a recommendation only, they are required or they are not.

 

[mattg4321]

Exactly. They are required in all installations other than single dwelling units.

In single dwelling units they are not required

 

[Markyd]

Tell me where it says it’s recommendation Only for an SPD please?
Think you’ll find it doesn’t and what’s with the attitude?

Single dwelling ie House is recommendation only...client says no then no....I dont even ask just fit them...But in the regs its recommendation only....And just because someone says your Wrong doesnt mean they have an attitude

 

[Ian1981]

Single dwelling ie House is recommendation only...client says no then no....I dont even ask just fit them...But in the regs its recommendation only....And just because someone says your Wrong doesnt mean they have an attitude

It was more the capital letters WRONG as if to make a point, comes across to me as being blatantly rude to be honest.
I disagree with the whole recommendation bit but there you go, no hard feelings.

 

[Simon47]

I can give a few anecdotal data points on this ...
At a previous job, the bosses had a nice house out in the sticks - overhead for both lecky and phone. They regularly lost equipment to lightning surges - but ONLY equipment connected to mains and phone (e.g. the fax machine). I don't recall any kit loslost that wasn't connected to both services. According to the regs, high risk and needs SPD - even though anyone who understands the subject will tell you it's as much use as a chocolate teapot if installed as per the regs.
Conversely, round here it's all underground services so naff all risk. The main risk is likely to be loss of PEN and over-voltage to sone users - for which an SPD is no help (it'll either blow it's fuses, or conflagrate itself).

For the general case, an SPD isn't likely to be much help unless you route all services via one point - and connect SPDs between each service and a co-located common earth point. Just a few feet of 10mm bonding cable might as well not be there when talking about kightning induced surges.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Just playing devils advocate a little, but when do we generically start coding no RCD as a C2? There must be some electrical practises that were OK 70 years ago but no longer are today, slowly over time they become unacceptable. At some point it has to become unacceptable to have cables buried <50mm without RCD protection, and it looks like this is slowly becoming the case.

 

[Darkwood]

Confusion is a deliberate part of regulations, ambiguity is by design as the industry makes a lot of money from spin off books to give a better understanding of the regulations, if they made the regs clearer to start with we wouldn't have so much confusion but there again our industry regulation writers wouldn't be making as much money from there published guidances.

 

[Markyd]

It was more the capital letters WRONG as if to make a point, comes across to me as being blatantly rude to be honest.
I disagree with the whole recommendation bit but there you go, no hard feelings.

Oh sorry for that..caps lock was on turned it off and carried on typing.....totally agree about spd thats why i just fit them as standard.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Pedants corner: It's important to understand the difference between a "Hazard Analysis" and a "Risk Assessment" a risk assessment is only required if a hazard analysis has been carried out and a risk assessment is deemed to be necessary, the hazard analysis comes first, does not have to be in writing, but should be noted somewhere that the hazard analysis has been carried out and there aren't any risks that require a risk assessment to be produced.