Solar thermal

[jason121]

Need some advice regarding a solar thermal system. To remove existing cylinder is going to be a nightmare, small cupboard and pipes covering the cupboard. So I am thinking of installing separate cylinder and piping the hot water from the solar cylinder into the bottom of the existing cylinder. Any thoughts.

 

[telectrix]

nope....

 

[jason121]

Thanks

 

[Earthstore]

Sorry Jason, I know the answer above did not help, it did make me smile though.

I can not help you at all on this one though, but I am sure someone will.

 

[danesol]

Is this a customer with or without existing PV ??

 

[jason121]

No PV, Oil boiler, not a lot of space on roof for 16 panels

 

[sedgy34]

Even at 8 panels they will get more benefit than thermal
anyway if you have your,mcs solar thermal,unvented hot water, and oil registrations you can do what your looking to do.

 

[jason121]

Can you explain your statement Sedgy

 

[sedgy34]

Can you explain your statement Sedgy

Which part

 

[jason121]

The PV part about the 8 panels

 

[sedgy34]

If you can get 8 Pv panels on the roof surely they will benefit better than solar thermal

 

[jason121]

Heating costs is more than his electric consumption and more expensive being oil

 

[sedgy34]

Get him to have biomass

 

[jason121]

I am thinking of installing heat pump cylinder with solar thermal. That way he will be ready for heat pump system later on. What's your views on the pellet prices in the next few years, will they be expensive ?

 

[sedgy34]

With the pellets there isn't any import as this country can deliver stock so no don't think so, heat pump is the way forward

 

[Earthstore]

What is wrong with a PV system and an export divert unit? (read the many threads to choose) Surely the sums would work out better.

 

[ajelec10]

Going back to op I think there can be problems with the legionla disinfection as the first cylinder fed via solar could be sat at ideal temp, make lots of infested water and could run right through second cylinder. Chage cylinder for thermal store over comes lots of issues! Gledhill do some good ones. No discharge pipe work, not a rocket waiting to go through the roof and no need to protect against legionla as its and instantaneous water heater? Hope this helps. Aj

 

[Worcester]

Get him to have biomass

Biomass, you're still in the hands of a 3rd party fuel provider, at the levels the Governements wants to promote Biomass we'll be a net importer of Biomass fuel. - Who control's the price of fuel and the costs of your heating then ???

 

[Gavin A]

Need some advice regarding a solar thermal system. To remove existing cylinder is going to be a nightmare, small cupboard and pipes covering the cupboard. So I am thinking of installing separate cylinder and piping the hot water from the solar cylinder into the bottom of the existing cylinder. Any thoughts.

vented or unvented?

could be worth considering a solartwin system if it's vented, now being made and sold by discrete heat in Manchester at reasonable trade prices, and would mean no need to replace the tank, just plumb in to the cold and hot water pipes from the tank or even near the header in the loft.

 

[The Solar King]

Have a look at things like the Willis Solarsyphon or a solaPlug. I haven't fitted either of these but have had extended chats with both companies at exhibitions. They may provide a cost effective solution for you if the existing tank is large enough.

Renewable Energy Systems - Willis Renewables
Solar Water Heating - SolaPlug - Retrofit Alternative to a twin Coil Cylinder. U.K.

 

[zeljuga]

Jason you have combination of different options with existing cylinder, yours call which way you wont to go .
External heat exchanger with ad on pump and controls, or plug coil, or new ad on cylinder. Legionella problem can be easily treated with once a day heating to 65 c.if not enough heat is delivered on given day from the thermal panels. Good quality controller, connecting all parts together in one smooth working system its essential.
Your crucial issue it`s good insulation of the existing cylinder as heat los/24h for 200l cylinder starts from 2.4 kw/24h for good insulated cylinder , and goes to 8-9 kw/24h loss on most traditionally insulated cylinders. which in terms owe ride benefits of dumping excess El. power from PV system in to the hot water cylinder. Each time you convert energy from one type to the other proportionally high losses inure.
Anyway . Couple connections for heat exchangers and plugs.
Heat Exchangers
Retrofit

 

[jason121]

Pipes every where

 

[Gavin A]

seriously, check out the solartwin / thermatwin panel for that, you'll probably be able to just tap in to the pipework in the loft and stay away from that mess - though you might need to insulate some of the pipework.

ask for a trade account mind

 

[Earthstore]

View attachment 18632View attachment 18633Pipes every where

Nice bit of tape around that joint.
So why are you going for Solar thermal and not PV?

 

[jason121]

Customer heating bill is costly on oil. Electric consumption small in comparison to heating bill. Small roof has some shade.

 

[jason121]

seriously, check out the solartwin / thermatwin panel for that, you'll probably be able to just tap in to the pipework in the loft and stay away from that mess - though you might need to insulate some of the pipework.

ask for a trade account mind

Gavin what is solartwin ?

 

[Gavin A]

Gavin what is solartwin ?

ThermaTwin Solar Panels - DiscreteHeat UK

that's the new name for it, it's been around for a long time but they used to charge a fortune and only really supply and fit, went bust and now taken over by a company who only want to wholesale it to installers or DIY.

Essentially it uses freeze tolerant pipes in the panel, so it actually pumps the water direct through the panel itself without a heat exchanger, so takes cold from the base of the tank (though can be anywhere on the cold supply from the header to the tank) and pumps that through the panel, then dumps hot water in the top of the tank (though the connection point can be anywhere between the loft-top of the tank via the expansion pipe).

The installs were a bit micky mouse from the ones I've seen, but can be done better by professionals with a bit of care IMO, and without the costs of a new cylinder, glycol, electrics (it runs off a little PV panel) etc the cost can be around a grand lower and the payback time is that much quicker.

 

[jason121]

Thanks guys for all your input much appreciated.