Spanish Wiring Regulations

[tony.towa]

I know this may sound a bit strange, but after hours of googling I am hoping someone can point me in the direction of where I can get a copy of Spanish wiring regulations (if there are such things) in English. Cheers

 

[PAUL M]

i dont think they bother with regs do they judging by the standard you see on your hols.lol

 

[Bane]

National and international wiring regulations - Building Services Journal

I know it doesn't answer your question directly but I think you'll find it points you into a more definate direction.

Keep us updated on progress please.

ePanorama.net - Links

Alternatively. Try that one

Cenelec - CENELEC

Or even that one.

 

[tony.towa]

Cheers Bane. Have bounced around the links you suggested and following some of the threads has resulted in me finding out some of the basics and also sent me to a site where I might get some joy with the full regs. Will keep you informed on

"The Quest For The Spanish Regs".

 

[LukeScotty]

yep, keep us updated, am interested in knowing this.

 

[tony.towa]

The story so far:-
Have found out a lot of general information about wiring power and lights on the same 16amp radial, as long as its the same room, ten amp radial for lighting, some places connect the neutral to the earth of the socket to create an earth path. earth can be in red cable, neutral blue and live black. If the property has 115volt supply a local authority electrician has to be contacted to change the supply to 220 and the local authority notified of the change.
Contacted the EIT site and they have given me the details of a spanish site to contact, so will now have brush up on my spanish.

How do i shout loudly and wave my hands in an email?

As I find out more will keep you informed.

 

[sparkyork]

intersting reading this, amongst other dubios things: earth=red and black=live!! wowzers!! i thought when we went from black n red to brown n blue it was to make us similar to europe!. i wouldnt last 5 mins out there before been brown bread!!

 

[tony.towa]

It's getting better. Have ben in touch with a British sparks working in Spain. He told me the Spanish will accept the UK qualifications quite happily it's just that you have to go to college to get a Spanish qualification before you can work as a Sparks over there. There are times when I think we could learn from our "European Cousins"!!!!!

 

[dixon9]

It's getting better. Have ben in touch with a British sparks working in Spain. He told me the Spanish will accept the UK qualifications quite happily it's just that you have to go to college to get a Spanish qualification before you can work as a Sparks over there. There are times when I think we could learn from our "European Cousins"!!!!!

???

Are you saying they accept British qualifications - therefore NO Spanish college?

Or despite having British qualifiactions you STILL have to go to a spanish college?

 

[tony.towa]

They will accept the UK qualifications however they require you to attend college and pass an exam in Spain before you can start work over there. I reckon this would be similar to the exam you need to work in Australia or New Zealand which ensures that you are aware of the differences in those countries

 

[Bane]

???

Are you saying they accept British qualifications - therefore NO Spanish college?

Or despite having British qualifiactions you STILL have to go to a spanish college?[/quote]

Yep. And you'd probably have to learn Spanish too. Scandalous eh? Who'd have thought it. Speaking Spanish in Spain...

 

[tony.towa]

Do I detect a slight hint of sarcasm.

Having now been back in touch with the British sparks it is almost a competancy and familiarisation exam however you have to attend a course at a Spanish college in order to take the exam.

Ok you need to have a good grasp of the spanish language so again I say, sometimes we could learn things from our European cousins.

 

[Bane]

Only the slightest hint Tony

 

[dixon9]

???

Are you saying they accept British qualifications - therefore NO Spanish college?

Or despite having British qualifiactions you STILL have to go to a spanish college?[/quote]

Yep. And you'd probably have to learn Spanish too. Scandalous eh? Who'd have thought it. Speaking Spanish in Spain...

No need to jump and down so quick! Wasn´t complaining mate - just trying to establish what he origonally meant.

(By the way, Im in Spain at the moment - and I speak Spanish fluently).

 

[tony.towa]

Dixon9, you could be the very person I need. Have just received a copy of spanish wiring regs by their regulatory authority. It's not available in English (or Welsh) so it's all in Spanish (just to please Bane). As far as I can make out their is nothing in there about ordering a beer and steak so I now need someone to translate it for me. Any volunteers????

 

[greekislandlover]

Can you get BS7671 in Welsh???

 

[NoSparks]

Just read this thread and many of the links with great interest. I wonder how far you have got with the spanish regs Tony?

Purly hearsay I was told you can have a translator present at the exam. Has anybody found out if there are any collages in the Malaga/Marbela regin that do the course?

PS. Tony, who is the regulatory body in Spain?

 

[Mac]

Just read this thread and many of the links with great interest. I wonder how far you have got with the spanish regs Tony?

Purly hearsay I was told you can have a translator present at the exam. Has anybody found out if there are any collages in the Malaga/Marbela regin that do the course?

I was told that at my college,all the east europeans were allowed translators.My tutor had a class full of poles and half of them couldn't speak english.This is the only country in the world that would allow that

 

[Guest123]

This thread is nearly a year old NoSparks, I dont hink you'll be getting a reply from him anytime soon as he hasn't logged in for 6 months.

 

[Andy Smith]

They will accept the UK qualifications however they require you to attend college and pass an exam in Spain before you can start work over there. I reckon this would be similar to the exam you need to work in Australia or New Zealand which ensures that you are aware of the differences in those countries

This is correct cheers

 

[coldelsol]

Dixon9, you could be the very person I need. Have just received a copy of spanish wiring regs by their regulatory authority. It's not available in English (or Welsh) so it's all in Spanish (just to please Bane). As far as I can make out their is nothing in there about ordering a beer and steak so I now need someone to translate it for me. Any volunteers????

Home - Voltimum UK - Electrical Installation Products and Contracting Hi ,interesting thread and got me looking for more info this link may help in terminology i found by chance .If you get any feedback regards malaga region colleges let me know .
Thanks
colin

 

[MikeBird]

It's getting better. Have ben in touch with a British sparks working in Spain. He told me the Spanish will accept the UK qualifications quite happily it's just that you have to go to college to get a Spanish qualification before you can work as a Sparks over there. There are times when I think we could learn from our "European Cousins"!!!!!

Hi there, sorry to be a nuisance.
I am being told that all electrical outlets must be 1.4Mtrs above the floor by a Sapnish electrician who wants to charge me £10000 to rewire my house in Spain.
Surely this is a scam?
I would appreciate your comments
Regards
Michael Bird

 

[NoSparks]

Bearing in mind that the MAXimum height to the top of a light switch or socket in the UK is 1.2 m I would agree. I suggest you ask him who he is registered with and what his registration number is. (You should do that anyway)

(PS. Minimum height in the UK is currently 450mm and these figures only apply to new builds not re-wires )

 

[mayfair]

Hi there, sorry to be a nuisance.
I am being told that all electrical outlets must be 1.4Mtrs above the floor by a Sapnish electrician who wants to charge me £10000 to rewire my house in Spain.
Surely this is a scam?
I would appreciate your comments
Regards
Michael Bird

normal re wire no where nnear rhat here m8

 

[coldelsol]

Hi Where in Spain are You.
You Have been quoted €10,000 for rewire .How big is your property appx.and how many light points and power points .And what is your allowance on ok Kw.from electricity board should be on your suppliers bill.do you have air con units and water heaters.
If your not to far I will give you Quotation and if a normal size villa or finca I should be able to halve it.I have a Spanish Electrician who will check my Installation and give a boletin + certificate once he is satisfied I am Qualified 2381 & 2391 C&G

 

[spamwize2]

sounds good to me ...look out sun there may be a spark!

 

[dcpenno]

How long is the college course because in australia i believe it is 12 months however whilst on the course you can work as a spark but cannot sign off and need to be supervised, thinking of moving to Almeria in southern Spain any help and comments would be good does anybody know the working hours. Also is renting property over there reasonable, i have been on internet and cost vary so much difficult to judge

 

[Bob D Nero]

Hi all just joined this forum
If anyone is interested I live in Menorca, was qualified in the Uk but still had to go through numerous bearucratic hoops lasting 4 years.
1 The Ministry of Education said it didnt recognise C&G - I believe they have an office in Madrid - I had to provide course sylabuss for everything going back 20 odd years.
2 18 months on I recieved the FP11 Tecnico Superior Qualification.
The end, not bloody likely I then had to take the Installer's exam - In Spanish - they only sit them twice a year here so 6 more months with various spanish wiring regs and other course books and a dictionary.
The End? Still not bloody likely you then have to apply for a Certificate as an Authorised Company if you want to issue your own paperwork.
This involves paying an engineer to say you have an extensive list of test equipment, (including things that cost a lot of euros that you will probably never use), a lock up of at least 25 square metres to store the above equipment and vastly overpriced public liability insurance, (my first year cost me over 800€)
And finally they sit sit on your paperwork for about 6 months then send you a letter saying you have to register self employed before you get an authoriastion number, in the Balearics this costs 254€ a month before you even open a toolbag. Oh and I forgot to mention about all the taxes you pay at every stage of the process.

I reccomend that unless you really really want to work as a spark here its just not worth the hassle:

Just to add the Spanish use REBT2002 which despite the language I found are similar to 7671 in that they use a paragraph to describe a sentance. all you really need to learn are the Spanish terms and you can pretty much understand most of it. The tables and calcs are pretty much the same after all even the Spanish can't change the laws of physics.

 

[NoSparks]

Thanks for a very informative reply.

 

[cantabrian9]

what a load of B-----KS like i posted on another thread they do what they want, i was asked to wire some flats the builder had the cable already------ ALL GREEN/YELLOW!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mayfair]

So how will this builder get the boliten without clearly marked cabling. Regs are in place in my area and tend to be adhered to

what a load of B-----KS like i posted on another thread they do what they want, i was asked to wire some flats the builder had the cable already------ ALL GREEN/YELLOW!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bob D Nero]

what a load of B-----KS like i posted on another thread they do what they want, i was asked to wire some flats the builder had the cable already------ ALL GREEN/YELLOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Not in Menorca they dont. Builders wont touch wiring, and the only and the only Sparks doing what they want are the ones due to retire.
The Industria here is s..t hot and can inspect work without notice. Anything requiring a supply greater than 5,7Kw has to have all paperwork done and registered with the industria to get a Puesta en servicio cert which then has to registerd with Endesa

 

[NoSparks]

Spain now follows the EU standard colours, so that was the fault of the builder. I hope you corrected him. It would be exceedingly dangerous to wire up a building with all g/y cable, and you should not be able to get an installation cert (boliten) for it.

 

[cantabrian9]

WELL!! the g/y builder has a mate who does the boletin, Gaspar the local (spark??) has a tiny multi-meter from the todo shop,doesn´t have lock-up , 3 phase into a villa (incomers in black!! no phase colours!! NO BLANKS!!!!!!!! polarity ERR!! WOTS THAT!!! and on one install he by- passed the trip cos he had a fault) i only found that after the people kept getting tingles off the taps!! (i noticed that the wiring in the cu was to neat for a dado (he hid the by-pass!!) any way good luck to the chap that wants to come to Almeria cos you will need it!! work is about NIL, renting a house no problem, nearly everyone has gone back!!! (and, PS, dont you lot in spain here get annoyed if i differ cos this is the A---HOLE of spain!!!!!!!!)

 

[Mr Mike]

I have worked in Son Vida Mallorca and the wiring has all colours.
Best I witnessed was the washing down of the walls outside the front door.....(with a hose pipe)
socket outlet and switches all got washed (drowned).

 

[cantabrian9]

whad ya mean ALL COLOURS, a bit of grey,a bit of brown,must be some black,did it trip the place? done a small job yesterday (on a pump,many houses in this area have depositos!) three cables,--------- the brown WAS earth!!! and two G/Ys L /N we might knock our trade in the uk,(with chancers ETC) BUT it has the best system in the world!!!!!!!!!

 

[mayfair]

Back a beyond or what! Had an inspection (industria) yesterday removed all my sockets and checked the UV tracer in the tox free cable also double checked my trip results half, X1, X5 then sat and waited 40 mins to see if the EL's kept on.

 

[cantabrian9]

J.C !! these lot around here would not understand these technical terms! honestly, when i go to a job that needs some extras i first use the old NEON srewdriver!! you never know if they are switching neutrals or feeds and when you come to a double skt,--------- it can be anybodys guess where the feed is in the next box!! (these are NOT DIY installations) these are the (SPARKS?????)that hand the boletin in!!

 

[mayfair]

Dont think i'd be using the old neon screwdriver except as a bradawl Nasty things! not to mention dangerous

J.C !! these lot around here would not understand these technical terms! honestly, when i go to a job that needs some extras i first use the old NEON srewdriver!! you never know if they are switching neutrals or feeds and when you come to a double skt,--------- it can be anybodys guess where the feed is in the next box!! (these are NOT DIY installations) these are the (SPARKS?????)that hand the boletin in!!

 

[cantabrian9]

no!! they are the dogs boll--ks!! get the probe and EVERTHING lights up, must admit never thought i would ever use the old neon tester again,but around this way many installations (if that is what you can call them) have bad earth connections, nothing goes straight to the board (in this area) lots of boxes with connectors (is it the same where you are?)

 

[Bob D Nero]

Not saying the Spaniarrds are the best in the world or even the best in Spain for that matter, however the worst offenders in menorca and where I get most of my work at the moment is rectifying what "British Sparks" have done. There seems to be a complete lack of understanding of the TT system, the locals may bond to earth with bell wire but they do bond, (well most of the time). Ive done houses that have been completey wired in T+E, UK 3 pins, single pole breakers the works. They then look at you like an idiot when you say its all got to come out.
When I get a few minutes i'll post an album of a 30+year old installation updated by a Brit.
I jest not you will be shocked, (I was, a few ttimes

 

[NoSparks]

I'm aware that in spain it is nearly all single core through flexi conduit, and that some modern installations have double pole MCBs but this of course is nothing to do with TT systems, so please enlighten me, what is wrong with T+E, and single pole breakers?

 

[malcolmsanford]

I'm pretty sure that the Spanish regulations do not like 1 a bare CPC 2 a smaller CPC.

They may insist that double pole protection devices need to be used as mainly all their systems are TT. The same as I would always use a double pole RCD or RCBO on a TT in the UK. It is far safer to use these when you have an unreliable or high Ra, as a N-E fault may no be picked up quick enough to disconnect a single pole device.

 

[NoSparks]

Are you saying that you would not use an RCD in a spanish board? As you know the usual configuration in the UK is a double pole RCD as the main switch, followed by single breakers. (This is also the configuration in our place in spain - but then we also have a g/y switch live! so one cannot gain too much insight into the Spainish Regs from what is already installed.)

Interesting though about the cpc, although I admit, had I rewired I would have used 3x1.5 singles so would not have fallen into that trap. mainly because pulling T&E into that flexi-conduit would be a night-mair. They would have been Br-Bl-g/y though!

{come to think of it I have never seen T&E for sale in spain}

 

[WilcoxElec]

As a French electricien I would not be able to work on a Spanish installation any more than I would on a British installation - (and I can read and understand the Building regulations in English) . I should think it unlikely that a reputable Spanish electrician would touch a UK installation......unless he was qualified to do so.... Other than the problems with the differences in the qualification requirements - criminal liability - insurance - &c &c - the materials used are likely to be very different reflecting the different building methods - reflecting the different geography and economy.... However, a Spanish electrician would probably be able to get hold of the proper high quality materials he required for the situation at a trade discount - and not rely, say, on a load from Bricodepot/B&Q. I have seen some pretty awful wiring in the UK (almost as bad as I have seen in France -- ) However I know that does not mean that the regulations are poor! I would not dream of replacing am old UK fuse board with Legrand of Hager bipolar breakers .. I would ask a British sparky to do what he does while I made the tea !

It may not be so cheap to do things properly in Spain (as in France) than it is to do things otherwise.

 

[Bob D Nero]

T+E only has a BS standard, there is no EN or harmonised standard, so in Spain it is not allowable. Also T+E has a reduced CPC Spanisg regs state that CPC is same size as L and N.
Pre Shuko spanish plugs were inline Pins with a slight ofsett on the Earth, thus giving polarity, also pre 2002 alot of boards had a double pole diff as a main with 1 x Single pole 16A and 1x10A MCB the individula circuits and socket outlets were then fused individualy on the phase.
Spain uses the Din style Shuko plugs and sockets which unlike the French do not have the protruding earth connection and can therefore be plugged in either way. I assume this is why they specify Double pole in the regs to ensure total disconection of the circuit.

 

[mayfair]

You can actually get a flat cable similar to UK T&E but its really just a flat 3 core cable which they have a habit of running to room lights .........Just and i mean just below the plaster. Fun, Fun, Fun. Pulling 3 x 1.5 into a 16mm tube is not that hard a job, 2.5 and 4 goes into 20mm and 6mm into 25mm tube.

 

[Engineer54]

T+E only has a BS standard, there is no EN or harmonised standard, so in Spain it is not allowable. Also T+E has a reduced CPC Spanisg regs state that CPC is same size as L and N.
Pre Shuko spanish plugs were inline Pins with a slight ofsett on the Earth, thus giving polarity, also pre 2002 alot of boards had a double pole diff as a main with 1 x Single pole 16A and 1x10A MCB the individula circuits and socket outlets were then fused individualy on the phase.
Spain uses the Din style Shuko plugs and sockets which unlike the French do not have the protruding earth connection and can therefore be plugged in either way. I assume this is why they specify Double pole in the regs to ensure total disconection of the circuit.

I was going to say, that the use of DP breakers has a lot to do with non polarised wall outlets and plug tops... Same sort of regulations that govern the German installations....

 

[WilcoxElec]

I was going to say, that the use of DP breakers has a lot to do with non polarised wall outlets and plug tops... Same sort of regulations that govern the German installations....

There is probably much more to it than that! If by “DP” you mean Bipolar circuit breakers, then you should regard the UK as exceptional in the use of single pole circuit breakers in the tables of protections (consumer units). I suspect there are reasons for this which do not apply in Spain or many other places.

In France for a larger property in monophase I am often required to use three separate RCDs in the same table/board (i.e. two type AC and a type A). The overcurrent circuit breakers (disjoncteurs) I use must be bipolar and of good quality. Single pole are not permitted and so are not so generally available and would be impractical and awkward to wire in anyway.

 

[Bob D Nero]

In Spain as well 1 RCD can only protect 5 Circuits, therefore anything over and above "Potencia Basica", (Basic Supply) has to have more than one RCD. Its difficult to get single pole MCB's here as well, which is why the majority of the ones I come across are MK or Crabtree.

Also, but I can't find anything definitive in the 17th, When I was but a mere Padawan Electrician and the 15th Edition was still the word of God, My Jedi Master Spark always wired TT systems with DP Breakers, (Alot of farms and out of the way houses in the North Riding).
Mind you, he also said the best test equipment was the back of your hand and an AVO8, and that if you needed to use a mouse you already had too many cables in.:confused5: