The worst install ever (maybe?)

[Gavin A]

not me either btw

 

[BruceB]

I agree with previous posters that offering criticism without all the facts is a tricky thing. If the job is by someone well regarded on here they would be crazy not to want to sort it out. Not me BTW!

 

[GaryM]

Well the whodunit list is getting smaller with every new post here!

 

[SolarCity]

Oh yeah, it's not one of ours either!

 

[Gavin A]

as it's non domestic, I'm thinking that it maybe didn't have planning permission, but the customer wanted it installed and commissioned before the 3rd March, so it was temporarily put up without being fixed in place to avoid planning problems.

Lots of dodgy ground there though if that was the case.

 

[Somecamel]

For the record- Not me

 

[moggy1968]

Ok, I confess, during the rush I hired a helicopter to get stuff to site quickly, one of the pallets fell out the back and this is how all the panels landed!!:lol:




JOKE! it aint me either!

 

[MorganPVI]

Poor work, not fit to be called a solar install. Very much doubt any respected member would admit to that publically.

I'm sure you can hazard a guess at the firm, not many respected members who cover that patch, what panels are they - maybe thats a clue!!

 

[Eco Deal]

And Its NOT me by the way.

 

[solarsavings]

Poor work, not fit to be called a solar install. Very much doubt any respected member would admit to that publically.

I'm sure you can hazard a guess at the firm, not many respected members who cover that patch, what panels are they - maybe thats a clue!!

They appear to be HJ's. nah, no way it's him

 

[JD6400]

It is not us either !
And as i have already said , there is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for that to be left like that even for one night let alone how ever long it has been there !
I lean more toward what Alarm man says to be honest , but for this i say have their tickets , simples !!!!

 

[babba]

Personally to me a bad install is a bad install.. but in this case the owner of this install must be blind on holidays or in a wheelchair.
The unsupecting house owner who is unaware of building and safty regs who's panels are ready to blow off the roof because some sloppy installer place them over the roof ledge is more a victim through lack of knowledge.. but again I am unaware of the owner of this accident or install..???. I can safely say in all the rubbish install's we see on here.. The bottom line is if they do it once they will do it twice...

 

[Glen Powell]

I have to say, I totally agree a bad install is a bad install and should not happen, in some cases companies have to take on extra sub contractors, i.e pre 12/12 and then 03/03 and now 31/03.

The company I work for had to carry out hundreds of installs within 2 weeks before 12/12 and recently 03/03, We had to employ someone to police the installs after the fact, I will be honest we found a number of non conformancies (not even close to the subject matter) however because we are inspecting the jobs we are able to fix the problems, this does however take time.

The problem is sometimes the larger the Company the more disconnected they are from the ground, I have seen a number of shocking installs and I do take the approach that if it is allowed / policy to disregard policy i.e. Health and Safety, MCS, REA, etc then blow the whistle, if they are reputable and ethical give them time to fix it.

We all make mistakes in who we employ and how we employ them as long as the company has the grit to fix it in a quicker than appropriate time then so be it.

A bad install is indead a bad install but be fully aware that "Sub Contractor" will not be getting any work from that company again, no excuse and if the sub contractor agreement was formulated correctly they will have a hefty bill to suite.

 

[babba]

I suppose that puts another twist on it...Greed..if you take on more work than a company can handle and take on untried subby's you are looking for trouble and also putting your company's name on the line...I think that roof is felt...???..If it is and at that angle what roof mounting kit can you use and leave the roof water tight..???

 

[whinmoor]

I suppose that puts another twist on it...Greed..if you take on more work than a company can handle and take on untried subby's you are looking for trouble and also putting your company's name on the line...I think that roof is felt...???..If it is and at's that angle what roof mounting kit can you use and leave the roof water tight..???

Judging from one of the photos, I think it's a new and innovative piece of roof mounting kit known as the "wooden wedge"! Patent pending. I wonder if they are exhibiting at Ecobuild next week...

 

[Glen Powell]

I suppose that puts another twist on it...Greed..if you take on more work than a company can handle and take on untried subby's you are looking for trouble and also putting your company's name on the line

Not so much Greed, We as a company had stock through the time prior and beyond 12/12 (not far beyond). We did not increase our prices at all as others did, we took on jobs that others could not fulfill to try and help them out, if you say "GREED" in the manor of facilitating jobs others could not, then so be it, as yes we wanted those Companies to work with us in the future.

The basics of it being is we employed a large amount of people "of which some still work for us" who lost their jobs through their Company not being able to get product, not being able to fund the jobs, Etc, Etc. Some of the largest distributors cut credit facilities down to nothing at the same time not able to offer stock on time or give any estimation on availability.

2 days after the Announcement of the 21p tariff the most well-known wholesale Companies had nothing but a few fixing screws on their floor, the day before the announcement I was in Hamburg and ordered 6mW of kit. Because the company I work for is able to install and employ those that couldn’t, are you sure that is all about GREED, given the fact that installers saw the opportunity to make hay and charge a premium.

Many Companies simply closed their doors shortly before 12/12 because they could not get the product, the fact that we deal with Investment funds and it was apparent that an announcement was going to be made “REF EPC” and therefore forward purchasing was made, the fact that the shock announcement the Monday after caught everyone with their pants down, it made us react as fast as we could. We immediately brought all orders forward; this could be a totally different story.

I am sorry to say those who want the whistle blowing immediately are those that are looking for the advantage, as I said if the company is reputable they will fix it, no point in blowing the whistle as one day they may be a company that offers you an opportunity or worst case, next employer.

 

[moggy1968]

don't take it personally. Many got greedy and took on more work than they could cope with, pure and simple. If this doesn't apply to you fine. To try and excuse this because a company was busy or used subbies is unacceptable. You are responsible for ensuring work done under your company name complies and is done to a reasonable standard, wether done by subbies or emplyees. No excuses, thats what the law says, and it's your moral obligation.

 

[Glen Powell]

Totally Agree, That is why we have a legally tight "Sub Contractor Agreement" and a man in a van that checks all of our installs.

Other Companies may be the same, and if they are upfront and rectify their mistakes, so be it, if they are fly by night then give them it both barrels.

I will say on a side note that these guys probably did not use scaff, PPE of any sort and come in as cheap as chips, which does grip my ****. Proper installation company cannot compete with those that cut corners and this is where it really gets on my nerves, but that is probably another thread / topic.

 

[babba]

I still see greed all over your post...I am not saying its your fault but not to see it is your call...Whistle bolwing..how many weeks does it take to drill a felt roof..???..who sold, surveyed never mind installed this job the rot is everywhere.

 

[moggy1968]

so you would agree this kind of work is unacceptable, which does rather contradict your other post where you took it all a bit personally! Your company clearly has robust systems in place to ensure this can't happen to your customers, so I don't really understand why you are defending this companies actions. These are ythe guys giving our industry a bad name, and probably undercutting you and taking your business by gaining an unfair advantage by not doing the job properly.

I agree with Babba on some of this, what was/is the customer thinking? Did their own greed, to get a cheap install mean they got what they paid for?

 

[Glen Powell]

I still see greed all over your post...I am not saying its your fault but not to see it is your call...Whistle bolwing..how many weeks does it take to drill a felt roof..???..who sold, surveyed never mind installed this job the rot is everywhere.

I may cause some offence here, My company did not install it, WHY WOULD YOU DRILL A FELT ROOF????, This install should not of even took place and the guy should be refunded........

 

[Glen Powell]

so you would agree this kind of work is unacceptable, which does rather contradict your other post where you took it all a bit personally! Your company clearly has robust systems in place to ensure this can't happen to your customers, so I don't really understand why you are defending this companies actions. These are ythe guys giving our industry a bad name, and probably undercutting you and taking your business by gaining an unfair advantage by not doing the job properly.

I agree with Babba on some of this, what was/is the customer thinking? Did their own greed, to get a cheap install mean they got what they paid for?

If it is a mistake, it is the surveyors mistake, the fact that it is installed and the way it is installed is equally a mistake, the fact is the Company that employed both parties should be given the right to put it right legally or otherwise.

 

[moggy1968]

It's now march 17th. When did this install go up? just how long do you think they should be given?
maybe just long enough for a panel to blow off and kill someone?

 

[Earthstore]

Settle down chaps
The original post and then the pics were to make you all aware of what I had seen, I did not mean for you all to get into a slanging match over this
I really am doing my best to get the job rectified, but the whole situation could not be more complex.
I am following this thread with interest, but be nice to each other, please.

 

[Glen Powell]

Well 3 days is probably too long however you cant chastise the thread starter for the moral / ethical / legal standpoint. In 3 days do we know if any action has been taken at office level or otherwise????

 

[moggy1968]

Glen, I wasn't, where did you dig that up from!!!
keep us posted earthy, I'm interested to see how this pans out.

 

[Glen Powell]

Don't worry Earthstone I am new here, I not found my feet yet, I am just putting across a few points that may not be considered, I am by no means upset as I hope the others are not

 

[Glen Powell]

The fact that this topic started 3 days ago if you are asking about my post reference 3 days

 

[babba]

Call us an honest family ...and all in need of guidance...techinal or otherwise.......Ted M for PM..

 

[Glen Powell]

Babba be honest yourself, let people know who you are, I have, my name is true and up there. I am the Technical Director for Allbrite UK Ltd and SellGen Ltd , I am sure Andrew would agree its best to be honest. I have nothing to hide.

 

[MorganPVI]

...and all in need of guidance...techinal or otherwise.....

I feel the designer of the system should have placed the landscape panels at the bottom, it would provided more support of the higher panels and also utilize the bypass diodes, there is a chance that arrangement could have turned the energy production around, i calculate a 600% increase in effeciency. The supporting crafted wooden frame work is unpainted and of softwood, tantilised timber would have been a far more durable option extending the life of this install. The MCS assesor inside me is disapointed at the lack of colour coded cables and untidy cable routing, however if the system is correctly labled then it is but a minor non-conformaty.

 

[Glen Powell]

I feel the designer of the system should have placed the landscape panels at the bottom, it would provided more support of the higher panels and also utilize the bypass diodes, there is a chance that arrangement could have turned the energy production around, i calculate a 600% increase in effeciency. The supporting crafted wooden frame work is unpainted and of softwood, tantilised timber would have been a far more durable option extending the life of this install. The MCS assesor inside me is disapointed at the lack of colour coded cables and untidy cable routing, however if the system is correctly labled then it is but a minor non-conformaty.

LMFAO I take it you are joking lol

 

[vernam616]

Lets face it though whos well respected? None of us actually know eachother, it is what it is a virtual world

Job looks **** however without reading the full thread they might be waiting on parts, many a time ive left a job waiting on gear, left in safe manner but i cant promise it will look its best because its UNFINISHED

 

[JD6400]

Lets face it though whos well respected? None of us actually know eachother, it is what it is a virtual world

Job looks **** however without reading the full thread they might be waiting on parts, many a time ive left a job waiting on gear, left in safe manner but i cant promise it will look its best because its UNFINISHED

But safe , and not about to blow of in a sudden gust !
If there are no fixings available at the time of install then the panels should still be in their boxes , no ifs , no buts !
I have to admit , if more links to individual company's were to be posted on here then i think there could be some more positive , and not so many smug replies from some on the forum ( Not just on the pv side ! ).

Dave

Managing Director

As you can see from my avatar -
DP Electrical Ltd


,

 

[MorganPVI]

For the record, I was joking and we did not install that job

Feel free to browse our new website, PV Install

 

[babba]

Babba be honest yourself, let people know who you are, I have, my name is true and up there. I am the Technical Director for Allbrite UK Ltd and SellGen Ltd , I am sure Andrew would agree its best to be honest. I have nothing to hide.

What does it matter who I am and telling you this will make me honest..???..I stand by what I said, I would have walked away from this job before it started, does that make me smug or honest...

 

[tmjh]

I find it comical that everyone seems to be falling over one-another to deny being the culprit, while adopting a "holier than thou" attitude.

I have looked at some of the installs shown on your websites as examples of your own work.

In a lot of cases they don't comply with regs either.

If these are examples of your best work, then i dread to think about your worst.

Perhaps you should put your own houses in order before criticising whichever clown carried out the install above.

 

[moggy1968]

at least we don't hide behind a veil of annonimity though!
I am quite happy for anyone to look at any of my installs. I don't think you'll find issue. Thats why I put my name to my posts.

 

[babba]

where am I facebook Myspace twitter...

 

[SolarCity]

I find it comical that everyone seems to be falling over one-another to deny being the culprit, while adopting a "holier than thou" attitude.

I don't see any reason why you should find that comical.

 

[tmjh]

Perhaps tragi-comical would have been a better description.

Regarding anonymity, is Moggy really your surname?

PS I have looked at the installs on your site and would advise the chap in the Mountaineers hat that a harness on its own is not much use, it is always safer to tie the rope to something.

Regarding not finding issues with installs on website, please look again.

 

[alarm man]

Perhaps tragi-comical would have been a better description.

Regarding anonymity, is Moggy really your surname?

PS I have looked at the installs on your site and would advise the chap in the Mountaineers hat that a harness on its own is not much use, it is always safer to tie the rope to something.

Regarding not finding issues with installs on website, please look again.

well comical could be aimed at yourself.your first post your asking for help,by the seventh your an expert...sniff...

 

[SolarCity]

Okay, lets not get personal with our comments. Keep it civil or I'll have to close the thread.

 

[Gavin A]

I find it comical that everyone seems to be falling over one-another to deny being the culprit, while adopting a "holier than thou" attitude.

I have looked at some of the installs shown on your websites as examples of your own work.

In a lot of cases they don't comply with regs either.

there are pictures of about 50 of our solar PV and solar water heating installations on the Leeds Solar website here.

feel free to post any of them up that you think don't meet the regs, I'd be happy to discuss them with you and the rest of the class.

I suspect that what you'd be taking issue with would mostly just demonstrate my point made on one of these threads about it not really being possible to accurately judge such things from photos from the ground - eg systems looking like they're above the ridge when they're not. This is a bit different to Earthstore's situation here were he presumably was actually able to assess the installation up close if he was able to take those photos.

 

[moggy1968]

Perhaps tragi-comical would have been a better description.

Regarding anonymity, is Moggy really your surname?

PS I have looked at the installs on your site and would advise the chap in the Mountaineers hat that a harness on its own is not much use, it is always safer to tie the rope to something.

Regarding not finding issues with installs on website, please look again.

As per the moderators request, I'll address this by PM, I don't think it's appropriate on here

 

[Eco Deal]

Perhaps tragi-comical would have been a better description.

Regarding anonymity, is Moggy really your surname?

PS I have looked at the installs on your site and would advise the chap in the Mountaineers hat that a harness on its own is not much use, it is always safer to tie the rope to something.

Regarding not finding issues with installs on website, please look again.

ouch!!!! lets try to keep the thread open to see the final outcome.
earthstone I think you have done well to inform the owner of the system, now its up to them to tackle there installer.
but I would say to the owner of the pv system that he can call you for advice.

I have had serveral calls from customers of other installers asking advice on there installations, why I dont know !
but I am happy to help them.

 

[Glen Powell]

ouch!!!! lets try to keep the thread open to see the final outcome.
earthstone I think you have done well to inform the owner of the system, now its up to them to tackle there installer.
but I would say to the owner of the pv system that he can call you for advice.

I have had serveral calls from customers of other installers asking advice on there installations, why I dont know !
but I am happy to help them.

I agree, that is why I am sitting in the corner playing with my train set, but the batteries are going flat

 

[Earthstore]

Just to try and keep you all in the picture, as I chose to post this, I only feel it is the right thing to do.
This really is very complex, it is not just the case of a bad install, with a contract between a customer and a company, as that would be easy.
I have discussed the thread with the moderators, which is maybe why it is still running.
Trust me I am on the case, but indirectly I personally have a lot to lose if I attack this with guns blazing.
May I just ask again though, keep it civil between us all though, this is a great forum, and very informative for us all, and we need to keep it that way.
Regards all
Earthstore.

 

[Earthstore]

Just to try and keep you all in the picture, as I chose to post this, I only feel it is the right thing to do.
This really is very complex, it is not just the case of a bad install, with a contract between a customer and a company, as that would be easy.
I have discussed the thread with the moderators, which is maybe why it is still running.
Trust me I am on the case, but indirectly I personally have a lot to lose if I attack this with guns blazing.
May I just ask again though, keep it civil between us all though, this is a great forum, and very informative for us all, and we need to keep it that way.
Regards all
Earthstore.

 

[Glen Powell]

Simples, Draw a line under it. If you feel you can tell us the outcome i.e It is fixed, then, so be it.

I have no axe to grind with peeps out there and do beleive as you say there is a lot of good people on here who can provide good practical information, if some try to go down the road of my phone is better than your phone, or, my company is better than your company, that is up to those.

You will find the companies that do get along are the companies that make changes. The companies trying to put the competition down will be left outside looking in. Its all business at the end of the day, the industry is not that small that we need to backbite. I deal with a lot of companies where business is reciprical they supply my products, I offer them fits, we also carry out fits for them when needed and they may have availability of product when I don't.

Matches and Bridges do not mix. I am happy to draw a line under it all knowing that Earthstone knows there is an issue and into resolving it. Nuff Said

I know I probably added fuel to the fire and debate and would normally not get involved, but hey what else you gonna do on a Saturday night.