Timer and contactor

[AlexGoode]

Hello, a friend has asked me to install a few 20W LED fittings on his out houses working off a timer, there are already some lights form a board with a timer in it. i have looked at the wiring but am wondering how the wiring works for the timer,and the timer. the lights are down a drive and at the end but the ones i will install are just above doors close to the board. if you can help i am very grateful

 

[tazz]

May I ask....are you an electrician or diyer...?

 

[shanky887614]

permL+N to the contactor then Sw+N to the lights on the output.

the timeclock will be used to switch the contactor (by pulling it closed) this will probably have its own supply from board but it might not

 

[trev]

Trainee according to his profile mate.

 

[trev]

So where does the contactor come in to it? Do you know why contactors are used?

 

[ImpededLoop]

Hi,

I suspect that the timeclock energises the coil of a contactor. The contractor will contain a number of switching contacts which close (switch on) when the coil is energised.

One side of these contacts will be fed from circuit breaker(s) or fuse(s) in the distribution board. The outgoing side will supply the external lighting. It may be that both line and neutral are switched by the contactor.

To add another circuit, you'll probably need another contactor. Loop the coil feed from the existing contactor to also feed the coil of your new contactor so the both operate together. Then run a new lighting circuit through the new contactor to the new lights.

LED's can have quite a high start up current, so get s contactor that is higher rated than you may normally use.

If you're unsure, get a colleague to have a look before you start.

 

[AlexGoode]

I am currently an apprentice but have done little work with e likes of contractors and relays and have never found the easy to understand, don't know why,is the a page to look at to understand them. i looked at the wiring today and found that a type B 10amp breaker feeds both the timer and contactor. on the contractor there is A1 at the front on the top and A2 is at the from on the bottom, are the back terminals 1 and 3 and 2 and 4?if so what is the difference between A1 and A2 and 1 and 2 and 3 and 4?

 

[trev]

Alex, do yourself a massive favour here. Do this job with the guy you're apprenticed to, I can see this ending badly for you.

 

[ImpededLoop]

A1 and A2 are the coil connections.

 

[ImpededLoop]

Alex, do yourself a massive favour here. Do this job with the guy you're apprenticed to, I can see this ending badly for you.

I'd agree with Trev. You'll learn a lot if you get someone to do this with you and explain it all.

 

[AlexGoode]

the wiring is from what i already, there, surely i can just carry it on or there is just the with live and neutral i need to connect to?

 

[trev]

the wiring is from what i already, there, surely i can just carry it on or there is just the with live and neutral i need to connect to?

In English mate?
Seriously, if you don't know why and how contactors are installed then you need to leave well alone.
I appreciate that you want to do your mate a favour but he isn't doing you any.

 

[AlexGoode]

ok then, thanks, if i was to say to him that i suggest getting someone else to do it, could you at least explain it in a simple way to understand?

 

[AlexGoode]

could you at least explain to me who after wiring it it would work if i suggest to him togged somebody else in

 

[Anthony S]

You need to understand the working's of a contactor before you start meddling.

 

[AlexGoode]

could you explain then please?

 

[tazz]

It is a very simple everyday circuit for most electricians, A1 & A2 are the coil 123 are the relay com, nc, no contacts....if you don`t understand this setup, then please get somebody who does

 

[Anthony S]

could you explain then please?

You need to learn off a tutor at your college with your text books or an electrician who you are training with.

 

[AlexGoode]

the tutor will have broken up for xmas

 

[shanky887614]

It is a very simple everyday circuit for most electricians, A1 & A2 are the coil 123 are the relay com, nc, no contacts....if you don`t understand this setup, then please get somebody who does

just to add usually the schematic is printed on the relay/contactor as well

 

[tazz]

Can I suggest to apply for the trainee section, you will find this section informative with guys like yourself helping each other through their college courses.

 

[AlexGoode]

how do i get that

 

[AlexGoode]

why do you use a contatcor and a timer?

 

[rapparee]

why do you use a contatcor and a timer?

Paul m is that you?

 

[AlexGoode]

no i am not paul m

 

[Leesparkykent]

why do you use a contatcor and a timer?

you use a timer if you want to time something to come on and off at a certain time and you would normally use a contactor if what you are switching has a high start up current that the OCPD cant cope with or what ever you are wanting to use to act as the switch (in this case a timer) cant cope with the load so you use a contactor and a timer to switch the coil so the timer does not take the brunt.

 

[davesparks]

you would normally use a contactor if what you are switching has a high start up current that the OCPD cant cope with or .

Could you clarify exactly what you mean here? Because it reads like utter nonsense at the moment.

 

[shanky887614]

why do you use a contatcor and a timer?

a domestic timer can only swich say 20amps max.

using it to swich a contactor/relay you can pull 100amp or more in using it.

 

[rapparee]

▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲what he says.


You will take a L&N from consume unit and bring it to the time clock.

You will then take SWL from time clock to the contactor.

Connect aforementioned SWL to A1 and N to A2

Bring a permanent L and N to the N/O contacts of contactor and the SWL and SWN goes to light fittings.

 

[trev]

how do i get that

Send a PM to Paul M or Sintra or Marvo and they'll guide you through the process.

 

[ferg]

It's not a crime to admit that you are out of your depth matey.

Especially as a trainee.

knowing your limitations and working within them is a skill in itself.

 

[AlexGoode]

I will happily admit that I am in no way an expert with contactors and alike but i feel (and as others have also told me in some cases), the best way to learn is from mistakes and trying it yourself. Trev, who is paul m, sinter and marvo?

 

[ferg]

I will happily admit that I am in no way an expert with contactors and alike but i feel (and as others have also told me in some cases), the best way to learn is from mistakes and trying it yourself. Trev, who is paul m, sinter and marvo?

Well TBF the best way to learn is from other peoples mistakes.

All the advice from people who have already made those mistakes and rectified countless more of other peoples mistakes is ????

 

[Marvo]

......who is paul m, sinter and marvo?

I thought I heard my name being mentioned

You can apply to join our trainee forum which is free and no strings attached. There's mentors there who will assist with an electrical related questions or problems. Please read this thread and do the necessary so we can consider your application.

If you need a basic explaination how any electrical component works then wikipedia is a good place to start or there's a free publication called 'All About Circuits' which is pitched at a suitable level for learners.

 

[trev]

I will happily admit that I am in no way an expert with contactors and alike but i feel (and as others have also told me in some cases), the best way to learn is from mistakes and trying it yourself. Trev, who is paul m, sinter and marvo?

Mate, you're an apprentice. A fairly new one by the sounds of it so you're not an expert in anything yet.
Walk before you run.
By all means learn from mistakes but those mistakes are best made under supervision so the person doing the supervising can tell you where you went wrong and how to put them right. As I've said several times, if you do this job I confidently predict a lot of problems for you.
You're not ready for this.
Yet

 

[Darkwood]

Learn to swim before you dive in, there is no shame in telling your mate your still learning and don't know how to do it, the thing about electricity is it can kill... competence before pride always is my best advice!

 

[Knobhead]

the tutor will have broken up for xmas

Cracked up more like. How long have you been an apprentice?

you use a timer if you want to time something to come on and off at a certain time and you would normally use a contactor if what you are switching has a high start up current that the OCPD cant cope with or what ever you are wanting to use to act as the switch (in this case a timer) cant cope with the load so you use a contactor and a timer to switch the coil so the timer does not take the brunt.

What a load of codswallop!

 

[Pete999]

Cracked up more like. How long have you been an apprentice?



What a load of codswallop!

Agree with Tony on this a load of nonsense

 

[AlexGoode]

ok then, am seeing him today, can you at least help me understand the wiring of what is already there- i am off for xmas now so won't see any1 until after new year. at the moment, the wiring is as follows: mains live to terminal '1' of contactor and to live on timer, mains neutral to terminal '3' of contactor and to neutral out on timer, terminal '2' on contactor to live of lights, terminal '4' to neutral of lights, A1 of contactor to switch live on timer, and A2 to neutral on timer. the contactor is 2 pole

 

[ian.settle1]

ok then, am seeing him today, can you at least help me understand the wiring of what is already there- i am off for xmas now so won't see any1 until after new year. at the moment, the wiring is as follows: mains live to terminal '1' of contactor and to live on timer, mains neutral to terminal '3' of contactor and to neutral out on timer, terminal '2' on contactor to live of lights, terminal '4' to neutral of lights, A1 of contactor to switch live on timer, and A2 to neutral on timer. the contactor is 2 pole

Seeing him on a Sunday after he has probably finished for Xmas?

You a wind up merchant?

 

[AlexGoode]

no, i mean i won't see lads from work, can you help?

 

[Pete999]

Can you post a picture of what you have already, it's difficult to advise/help when you only have a vague description, a diagram would help also, not having a go at you, just need more clear info

 

[Darkwood]

I will happily admit that I am in no way an expert with contactors and alike but i feel (and as others have also told me in some cases), the best way to learn is from mistakes and trying it yourself. Trev, who is paul m, sinter and marvo?

This is electricity you are playing with which has the 'potential' (see what I did there ) to kill or damage property...the best way to learn is not by making mistakes although it is effective.
Your best way to learn is good old hard revision and hands on approach with a mentor to watch over you as you would with an apprenticeship - this is why these short crammed courses are worthless because you pass parrot fashion and come out with no real experience or understanding into a world where your mistakes can kill others if not yourself.

People do learn from mistakes, that im not knocking but to say its the best way to learn in this industry is frightening!

 

[Jamzie]

This is electricity you are playing with which has the 'potential' (see what I did there )

That will have been wasted

 

[AlexGoode]

 

[AlexGoode]

cannot paste into forum for some reason, do have it as jpeg though

 

[Jamzie]

Alex,

From your description, it’s a very basic contactor circuit. One, which probably can easily be found if searched for on google or in a basic training manual. There are assumptions made here due to lack of information:

The contactor coil pins, A1 & A2 are connected to the timer, so when the N/O timer contact closes at the required time, the contactor coil will be energised. The two N/O contactor contacts (pins 1&2 and 3&4) will both close when the coil is energised. Therefore live (pin 1) will supply pin 2, so supplying live to the lights. Neutral (pin 3) will close the circuit with pin 4.


Edit:Typing '2 pole contactor circuit' into google revealed plenty of examples...sorry but its really not hard.

I would suggest going to Maplins and buying some 12V DC relays and play with these using a power supply and some lamps. Won’t cost much but will be educational, safer than playing with mains.

 

[trev]

Jamzie FFS! The only advice he needs to listen to is what he has already been told by several members IE. STOP!
He seems determined to do this job despite having been given that advice several times. Imo he's on his own because any more information is going to lull him into a false sense of security

 

[shanky887614]

Jamzie FFS! The only advice he needs to listen to is what he has already been told by several members IE. STOP!
He seems determined to do this job despite having been given that advice several times. Imo he's on his own because any more information is going to lull him into a false sense of security

you can't help some people trev, let him break some things and have to call someone in for advice and to fix it.

you do realise if your doing this at your mates you should have insurance etc, your not competent to do it either.

if anything badly goes wrong he will be hung out to dry

 

[GMES]

Giving advice to someone who is out of his depth is suicide, what happens if Alex now has a go at this and wires it wrong which then leads to an house fire and wipes out an entire family on christmas day.
Jamzie, Alex has been given instructions on how to get in to the trainee section,lets leave it there and every one can sleep at night, the lad is trying to learn which is fair enough but it can't be at the expense of someones life.