Tips from a pro.....

[littlespark]

Sometimes you need to work in an old house, and there’s a number of threads on here about how to, say, fit downlights in a lathe ceiling.....

Here’s a start... on lathe and plaster walls without making a huge mess....

Mark where you want the socket to go. Height wise, measure an existing one from either the floor or the top of the skirting.


Next, use a pad saw to find a gap between the lathes. Hit and miss jabbing with the saw until it breaks through.

I will be using a regular dry lining box, so you don’t want to be too close to a vertical joist. Use the pad saw to feel to the left and right. If you can feel a joist, just adjust your planned position.

Once you have the final position, you can draw around a regular metal back box to give your cutout size.

Using a multi tool on a fairly slow speed, you can chip away at the plaster, but not the lathe quite yet.
yet.

Now, with the multi tool on a high speed and a fine toothed wood blade, you can cut neatly through the lathe without much problem. A small wood screw screwed into the middle of the lathe and held tight in pliers will help as the lathe will want to push into the hollow wall.

Now for the biggest tip I can give. Very very important whenever you are doing anything like this;



Always remember to charge your phone fully, or it will die when you’re in the middle of trying to make a hints and tips thread???

 

[snowhead]

Top tip #2, when #1 didn't quite work out,

How To Fix a Hole in Lath and Plaster Walls

Follow this step by step guide to help with your lath and plaster repair. We share how to fix a damaged wall. Or, if the lath behind the old plaster is in good condition then how to patch a hole plaster walls by troweling on layers of mud.

www.thisoldhouse.com

 

[loz2754]

Lath

 

[Lister1987]

Sometimes you need to work in an old house, and there’s a number of threads on here about how to, say, fit downlights in a lathe ceiling.....

Here’s a start... on lathe and plaster walls without making a huge mess....

Mark where you want the socket to go. Height wise, measure an existing one from either the floor or the top of the skirting.
View attachment 86407

Next, use a pad saw to find a gap between the lathes. Hit and miss jabbing with the saw until it breaks through.
View attachment 86408

I will be using a regular dry lining box, so you don’t want to be too close to a vertical joist. Use the pad saw to feel to the left and right. If you can feel a joist, just adjust your planned position.

View attachment 86409

Once you have the final position, you can draw around a regular metal back box to give your cutout size.

View attachment 86410

Using a multi tool on a fairly slow speed, you can chip away at the plaster, but not the lathe quite yet.
yet.

View attachment 86411

Now, with the multi tool on a high speed and a fine toothed wood blade, you can cut neatly through the lathe without much problem. A small wood screw screwed into the middle of the lathe and held tight in pliers will help as the lathe will want to push into the hollow wall.
View attachment 86412

Now for the biggest tip I can give. Very very important whenever you are doing anything like this;



Always remember to charge your phone fully, or it will die when you’re in the middle of trying to make a hints and tips thread???

M12 CMT? If it is a 12v, do you rate it? I know 18v will have more punch but I've got a bucket load of M12 batteries, thinking just basic jobs like drywall, breaking the tongue between floorboards etc

 

[buzzlightyear]

Now for the biggest tip I can give. Very very important whenever you are doing anything like this;

 

[littlespark]

M12 CMT? If it is a 12v, do you rate it? I know 18v will have more punch but I've got a bucket load of M12 batteries, thinking just basic jobs like drywall, breaking the tongue between floorboards etc

The multi tool? M12 Free gift from Howdens for opening an account.

Good enough for what I need it for

 

[Dave OCD]

Sometimes you come across very thick old plaster and can fit a metal box flush directly on the laths, can be a little bit bouncy though and you need to be careful not to split the laths.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I try to position them actually on the vertical joists in a metal box. Even if the 25mm sits a little proud you can take a small bit out of the joist.
You lose a little in the choice of area you can have it, but it's a much easier and stronger fit.

 

[Dave OCD]

Yes I've done that as well HHD, although the majority these days seem to just whack a surface box straight above the skirting. ?

 

[telectrix]

another tip. totally unrelated but...... when you remove a redundant accessory, before binning it, save the terminal screws ( aslong as undamaged). the number of times i've taken ,say, a new cooker switch out of the van stock to find that 1 or 2 screws have worked loose in transit and disappeared for ever is ridiculous.

 

[nicebutdim]

Don't you keep a range of screws for accessories? Old houses were supplied screws need to be replaced with anything from 30mm - 75mm...

 

[telectrix]

i'm referring to terminal screws, not 3.5mm pins.

 

[littlespark]

I’m now imagining tel with a poly bag full of used terminal screws.

 

[Lister1987]

i'm referring to terminal screws, not 3.5mm pins.

And yet can you buy a pack of say 100 (brand specific) from a wholesaler? Can you hell, you think they would knowing this sort of thing happens.... Maybe they ship them out backed off and held in by a to test bit of thread, look at it wrong and poof there goes the screw

 

[Mike Johnson]

For what its worth: Vertical support members in a wall are studs, joists are horizontal support members normally in a floor or ceiling.

 

[brianmoooore]

Fitted many hundreds of sockets into lath and plaster walls over the years, have tried the methods detailed in this thread, but have found that any that leaves a cut end of laths unsupported will eventually cause problems.
The method I eventually settled on was to cut a rectangle of lath and plaster away, making the vertical cuts in the centre of the adjacent studs, down to the skirting board (especially pre part M) and horizontally just above the top of the proposed socket, and also removing the plaster from the next lath up.
At this stage, you could get a drill inside the wall, and drill a nice central hole down to the space below the floorboards to bring the cables through, then fit a good solid noggin between the studs to screw a metal socket box to. Finally comes two layers of plasterboard, either 9.5mm, 12.5mm, or one of each, depending on the surrounding plaster thickness, with the outer one overlapping the lath left at the top, to reinforce the join when it's skimmed over.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

but have found that any that leaves a cut end of laths unsupported will eventually cause problems.

Exactly this. The plaster to the sides of the cut out is not supported, so very weak. It can be reinforced though, using timber battens, without too much trouble:

• Cut the hole out of the lath and plaster for the backbox with multitool (we're gonna use a steel BB).
• Cut a couple of timber battens, something about 2" X 1" should do. They're going to go inside the wall, vertically, to either side of the hole, and need to be long enough to extend beyond a couple of un-cut laths, both top and bottom. About 150 - 200mm long is about right.
• Reach inside the hole, and carefully pull away the plaster 'keys' from either side of the hole where the battens are to go. We want the battens to press right up against the back of the laths without being fouled by any bits of plaster.
• Now the fiddly bit.
• Liberally coat the face of one batten with PVA, water based gripfill, or similar. Maneuver the batten through the hole and into position vertically to the side of the hole, glue side pressed up against the back of the laths. Hold in place, and drive a screw through the plaster, through an un-cut lath, and into the top of the batten. Repeat for the bottom of the batten. You can put screws through the cut laths into the batten too if you like.
• That side is now reinforced, and will be about as strong as you can hope for in a lath and plaster wall. Do the same for the other side of the hole with the other batten. You can now fix the backbox in place by screwing through the sides into the battens.
• Filler over the screw holes and you're done.
  

 

[Intoelectrics]

Exactly this. The plaster to the sides of the cut out is not supported, so very weak. It can be reinforced though, using timber battens, without too much trouble:

• Cut the hole out of the lath and plaster for the backbox with multitool (we're gonna use a steel BB).
• Cut a couple of timber battens, something about 2" X 1" should do. They're going to go inside the wall, vertically, to either side of the hole, and need to be long enough to extend beyond a couple of un-cut laths, both top and bottom. About 150 - 200mm long is about right.
• Reach inside the hole, and carefully pull away the plaster 'keys' from either side of the hole where the battens are to go. We want the battens to press right up against the back of the laths without being fouled by any bits of plaster.
• Now the fiddly bit.
• Liberally coat the face of one batten with PVA, water based gripfill, or similar. Maneuver the batten through the hole and into position vertically to the side of the hole, glue side pressed up against the back of the laths. Hold in place, and drive a screw through the plaster, through an un-cut lath, and into the top of the batten. Repeat for the bottom of the batten. You can put screws through the cut laths into the batten too if you like.
• That side is now reinforced, and will be about as strong as you can hope for in a lath and plaster wall. Do the same for the other side of the hole with the other batten. You can now fix the backbox in place by screwing through the sides into the battens.
• Filler over the screw holes and you're done.

I find this the best method also. ^^^^^^^
If possible though I build a "saddle" out of ply wood that you can fit through the cut out and twist into position.
The saddle is made of 2 stirps of ply as the vertical battens then one strip screwed to the back as the horizontal batten. I pre drill the fixing holes so not to split the lath's and then pull the saddle tight up against the inner wall whilst inserting the fixing screws. The back box can then be fixed in place, packed out if required to the depth needed. This method works best on double socket outlets as the saddle slides through the wider gap then twisted into position.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Even easier is to back the cut ends of the laths with a dob of plaster, if needed a piece of plasterboard as well.

 

[littlespark]

and here's me thinking i was doing well with my multitool sculpting

 

[Intoelectrics]

and here's me thinking i was doing well with my multitool sculpting

Hey, we can all keeping learning a thing or two! Its great when we can throw around ideas that makes life easier for us all!!

 

[Intoelectrics]

One of the best tips I learned as a lad was to hold a vacuum cleaner hose (obviously with the vacuum cleaner switched on) just below where you are drilling or cutting. Saves time cleaning up after and also helps keep the dust down.
With the advent of battery operated vacuum cleaners this is even easier than ever nowadays!

 

[telectrix]

do same regularly. another tip is to stick a small cardboard box ( like what 5 sockets come in) to the wall with masking tape, just below where you are drilling. then all the crap goes in the box.

 

[nicebutdim]

do same regularly. another tip is to stick a small cardboard box ( like what 5 sockets come in) to the wall with masking tape, just below where you are drilling. then all the crap goes in the box.

With the added bonus of there being no possibility of forgetting to switch it on.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

do same regularly. another tip is to stick a small cardboard box ( like what 5 sockets come in) to the wall with masking tape, just below where you are drilling. then all the crap goes in the box.

There's a similar trick when chiselling out vertical chases. You position the wet pant's tool caddy at the base of the run to catch the rubble.

 

[Lister1987]

do same regularly. another tip is to stick a small cardboard box ( like what 5 sockets come in) to the wall with masking tape, just below where you are drilling. then all the crap goes in the box.

I use an envelope works just as well.

 

[littlespark]

C’mon guys... we’ve got a reputation to uphold....
The trade that doesn’t clean up after themselves. ?

 

[brianmoooore]

The trade that doesn’t clean up after themselves. ?

Exactly! I've always made it quite clear to my customers that I'm a reasonably priced sparky, but an extremely expensive cleaner.

 

[littlespark]

I do like to surprise my customers sometimes... start clearing the jobsite, putting tools back in the van... and turn up at the door with a brush and pan.

9/10 times i get " don't worry about that... we'll get it"

 

[Dave OCD]

We always make the effort to clean up properly and customers really do seem to appreciate it , I just think that you could do a first class job but if you leave a load of dust and crap behind that's the lasting impression you create.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I have a Karcher vac that has a power take off when you switch on the multi tool the Karcher starts up, when you switch off the tool the vac keep running for about 6 - 10 seconds to clear the hose, the Fein multi tool I have has a purpose made vac port that fits around the head of the tool and collects practically all the debris.

 

[Intoelectrics]

I have a Karcher vac that has a power take off when you switch on the multi tool the Karcher starts up, when you switch off the tool the vac keep running for about 6 - 10 seconds to clear the hose, the Fein multi tool I have has a purpose made vac port that fits around the head of the tool and collects practically all the debris.

That sounds very professional Mike!

 

[Mike Johnson]

That sounds very professional Mike!

On most occasions you do get what you pay for. ?

 

[telectrix]

i notice nobody recommends dyson crap for serious use. wonder why? sir james dyson for producing unserviceable, overpriced plastic rubbish.

 

[Mike Johnson]

My OH loves the Dyson Animal, take it off the wall and just use around the house, no cable, last long enough to clean the whole of our three bed detached, but we don't have animals or kids to make things very dirty, sorry tel, but IMO its OK.

 

[nicebutdim]

i notice nobody recommends dyson crap for serious use. wonder why? sir james dyson for producing unserviceable, overpriced plastic rubbish.

While I've no love for over-priced goods, I think there's a distinct difference between product designed to clear large amounts of dust or debris and products that are designed to remove every last trace of dust/crumbs/hair etc, while being light enough to reduce the effort required to vacuum in a home. People that want the convenience of a Dyson/Shark/G-Tech product aren't generally the sort of people who regularly set about butchering lath & plaster.


Tl;dr: Dyson etc are about convenience and efficiency, rather than clearing volume.

 

[Mike Johnson]

FIO Distinct difference between HVLP and HPLV, "High Volume Low Pressure" is to move large bits of detritus like shavings from a Planner Thicknesser and are quite large machines at 4500watt with a 150mm intake, my version is taller than me and moves 2200ft3/hr, however the "High Pressure Low Volume" vacuum I also use in my workshop is only 350ft3/hr on an 83m hose, but is high pressure low volume and is perfect for dust and small debris, it's 2400watt, that sort of wattage is not allowed in domestic vacuums anymore.

 

[brianmoooore]

Going back a few years, I'd just finished sorting out a customer's oil fired boiler, which had failed with a fault that had made it run extremely rich for a while, producing copious quantities of light, fluffy soot, much of which was now on the kitchen floor.
Out she comes with her nearly new Dyson, boasting of how it would make short work of the mess, and in spite of my warnings, got stuck in.
There was no doubt it was making a good job of the cleaning - right up to the point that the motor note abruptly changed and acrid smoke started pouring out of it.
I don't think it ever went again.
Having said that, I have four old Dyson DC32s in use (one in each holiday cottage, and two more for cleaning said holiday cottages) and although fragile, they do out perform most other vacuums we've tried.

 

[Dave OCD]

You can't beat a good old Henry IMO.

 

[timhoward]

You can't beat a good old Henry IMO.

There's even a female version now called a Hetty.

 

[brianmoooore]

You can't beat a good old Henry IMO.

The Dysons replaced a couple of Henrys. Henry's OK when the filter's clean, but just like Mr Dyson says, his don't loose suction power as a filter clogs.

 

[nicebutdim]

You can't beat a good old Henry IMO.

My Henry cost less than a fiver, bought at auction a few years back as no one else wanted him.

Noticed last week his flex had escaped the plug's grip and discovered polarity had been reversed the whole time I've owned it ?


Doesn't half get heavy when filled with rubble!

 

[brianmoooore]

Henry's are still here, and come out if there's large quantities of material to be removed, and there's also a wet version of a Henry that we have that deals with floods and carpet/rug cleaning/

 

[Mike Johnson]

Whoever thought that a vacuum cleaner with a smily face would hold such loyalty, at least they are made in the UK, but now a new era has emerged for Henry: NBV240NX - Numatic International - https://numatic.co.uk/products/cleancare/nbv240nx/

 

[R-fur]

My Henry cost less than a fiver, bought at auction a few years back as no one else wanted him.

Noticed last week his flex had escaped the plug's grip and discovered polarity had been reversed the whole time I've owned it ?

How could you have missed that when you were doing all your three monthly PAT checks on all your site tools.

 

[nicebutdim]

How could you have missed that when you were doing all your three monthly PAT checks on all your site tools.

Good question and one that I can answer with ease...

I'm not working in any properties belonging to others and I'm not an electrician. It did teach me the lessons of assuming nothing, taking nothing for granted and amending my own practices in this regard.

 

[telectrix]

now you got me going to open the plug on my henry what i bought for £2 at a car boot sale 12 years ago.to check it. GRRR.

 

[nicebutdim]

now you got me going to open the plug on my henry what i bought for £2 at a car boot sale 12 years ago.to check it. GRRR.

I know you've probably seen this sort of thing countless times, but I couldn't believe it. What's more is that it was part of a liquidation sale of an engineering business, who obviously would have regularly PAT tested all portable electrical equipment...

Very handy having a short flex on henry, combined with a long hose.

 

[Mike Johnson]

My twin motor 110V George is well past its sell by date, but just keeps going, I obtained it second hand over twenty years ago.

 

[casperLennon]

I’ve recently bought a battery Henry. Fantastic hoover. Much better that the previous dysons I’ve had