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USA politics, recent events.

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Did Trump do a good Job as President.

  • No

    Votes: 24 49.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 7 14.3%
  • Yes but he was a bit of a loose cannon (said stupid stuff).

    Votes: 18 36.7%
  • No better or worse than Obama

    Votes: 1 2.0%

  • Total voters
    49
To be noted here when Trump users the terms fight or fighting he is clearly been figurative as the context of the rest of his speech clarifies.
I find it strange that we have seen thousands of politicians use phrases like fight for what you believe and all they mean is in a figurative sense and not a violent one, but because it is trump and we have had a 4yr witch hunt on him they take those words as an incite to violence which within the context of the rest of the speech is ludicrous to suggest that.

'We are going to cheer on our brave senators' .... clearly part of a speech that is inciting violence -not!
 
I'd copied and pasted those words from the first transcript provided by google, but agree that it would be very easy to omit or add words and why should anyone believe me? I'm just some random person on an internet forum, who might have fabricated that quote.

To be clear about what words were actually spoken, it is fortunate that video evidence also exists.


Many media outlets played the same clip, but chose to only play the section that fitted their agenda and then cut to talking heads who were ready to condemn. I don't agree with some of what @darkwood has posted, but fully agree with his words about the media and the explicit bias often displayed by news outlets that many people trust. I would state that anyone who receives their information, on domestic or international affairs, from news media is very unlikely to be in possession of even half the facts of any story. To find the video posted above I had to scroll past many videos that had editied out the contentious words - many of which claiming those words were never spoken.
Far enough. However, the rest of his speech just keeps on repeating the same rhetoric about election fraud and the steal etc, and as previously mentioned the tweets beforehand. Enough to inspire the crowd to do what happened IMO.

I do take the point about using terms like 'fight like hell' and its use in general, but whether that was his mens rea or not, that's exactly what happened. Being a man who holds such power or did have, he should of choose his words more carefully.

When I listen to this man, I find his words both arrogant, belittling and offensive. I recall someone posting about how many conflicts previous Presidents had took their country into conflicts, whereas Trump had none. But I wonder how many achievements he's had as a President in comparison?
 
But I wonder how many achievements he's had as a President in comparison?

was a lot listed in an early post, think it was darkwood.
 
When I listen to this man, I find his words both arrogant, belittling and offensive.
Totally agree. Couldn't have put it better. The president of the most powerful nation in the world surely should at least try to display a little tact when talking to people. Instead he talks over people, not allowing them to air their view.
I am glad he's out.
 
But I wonder how many achievements he's had as a President in comparison?

was a lot listed in an early post, think it was darkwood.
Fair Play Tel, this site wouldn't be the same without you and your comedy, Your a good Guy, I'd love to have a pint with you sometime, it would be fun I know
 
In post 1 I linked to a list of achievements, browse through them and see how many you recognise from the media telling you, very few if any, when Obama was in the MSM fell over itself to promote positive feedback and spin on anything he did yet Trump has half the term of Obama and breaks all the records with jobs, economy, peace deals etc and nothing from the BBC or other outlets.
When you are constantly paraded with everything a person does wrong it is very easy to misjudge them and ignore what they have actually achieved.
I have never said Trump doesn't make gaffs, his 'injecting yourself with bleach' is a massive one of many but I prefer to judge the man for what he has done for the black community and black education, the employment record breaking figures as well as the economic ones, like i said before, on paper this man has achieved way more for the USA as any recent president has ever done and that is totally been ignored by the media to feed there anti Trump narrative.
 
that's if there's any pubs left when this virus thing is over.
 
I’m not putting words in your mouth, I’ve summarised the suspicions you’ve made.

Lets face it none of us know what really took place, we were not there. As typical in large scale violent demonstrations, it’s difficult to comprehend how this unfolded. We gain our information, from various sources, mostly the internet, which I have.

Indeed there was intelligence on what’s was to happen, you only have to look at all the stuff on the internet beforehand, about ‘stopthesteal’. I’ve read that the Capitol Police, said there was no such intelligence.

For your first point, the various persons were present in and around the Capitol because of the happenings in there, but also by various tweets Trump had been made leading up to this event, not least his speech, for many days before. He IMO incited them before and during.

Again from the internet, the Capitol Police are responsible for the security of the building. Washington, D.C., is not a state: Because D.C. does not have a governor, D.C. Guard deployments must be approved by the city’s National Guard army secretary, Ryan McCarthy. This is a slower process than a governor hastily declaring a state of emergency and calling in National Guard forces in large numbers.

Pelosi is not in charge of the security of the Capitol building (various internet searches).

Quite simply the Capitol Police were overwhelmed by the size of the mob. We will have to wait and see, why they did not have additional resources. They only have 2000 officers. Even if they were all deployed, that would be insufficient to protect the grounds and building IMO, in such an incident. Perhaps they were too vain to ask.

For your last point, there is precedent for impeachment of a person, after they have left office. Leave you all to google that.

Apologies for the long post folks ?
Qui bono?

As always who benefits?

That most people do not know that many Republican senators were going to use, rightfully, the counting ceremony as an opportunity to air their objections and get them on record is very telling.

The fact that this "insurrection" allowed the process to be halted and subsequently waived through without contest tell us all we need to know.
 
P. S. I don, t or won't be getting involved in politics myself. I took that decision some time ago. My purpose in commenting on this thread (this will be my final comment on the matter) is because it has in my view crossed a line. It promotes idea, s which are simply not to anyone's advantage. Idea, s that are divisive. It would be a terribly pity if these type of thread was to become acceptable. This forum I have come to value. Its worth fighting for. Have a good day everyone?
Cherio, don't let the door smack your --- on the way out.
 
I love the banter in general here, it is good we have differing views otherwise it would be so dull, even though I think Trump is a muppet, he was good value for a laugh, every day of his 4 years in office something happened, dozens of people getting the sack for starters, some of his comments were hilarious, however even I cannot argue his love for his country, he was America first, that said the country is more divided now then in the 70s when things were bad there then, I have a feeling he will be back, to me he is a complete joke but to millions of others a hero, a figure that will be remembered in history even in 200 years time for sure.
 
Far enough. However, the rest of his speech just keeps on repeating the same rhetoric about election fraud and the steal etc, and as previously mentioned the tweets beforehand. Enough to inspire the crowd to do what happened IMO.

I do take the point about using terms like 'fight like hell' and its use in general, but whether that was his mens rea or not, that's exactly what happened. Being a man who holds such power or did have, he should of choose his words more carefully.

When I listen to this man, I find his words both arrogant, belittling and offensive. I recall someone posting about how many conflicts previous Presidents had took their country into conflicts, whereas Trump had none. But I wonder how many achievements he's had as a President in comparison?

The speech was heavy on rhetoric and bluster, but nothing that would ordinarily be considered unusual for a politician. I'm not going to claim that some people weren't driven on by his words, but that his words certainly don't come close to incitement of violence.

The contrast with words from many of his political opponents, over the past year, is stark:

Chris Cuomo (CNN Journalist and brother of Democrat Governor of New York) speaking about antifa protesting in NY: "Show me where it says that protests are supposed to be polite and peaceful?"

Nancy Pelosi speaking at 2020 Democrat National Congress: "You've got to be ready to throw a punch."

Maxine Waters (democrat representative) addressing a crowd of supporters: "If you see anybody from that cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd, and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere."

Senator Cory Brooker (democrat) addressing activists: "Get up in the face of some congress people."

Eric Holder (unsuccessful democrat candidate 2020) addressing supporters: "When they go low, we kick them. That's what this new democratic party is about."

Madonna Speaking publicly: "I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house."

Robert DeNero speaking about Trump on video to followers: "I'd like to punch him in the face."

Jonny Depp at public rally: "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"

Kamala Harris during news interview about nationwide protests: "They're not going to stop.... and nor should they."

Nancy Pelosi (speaker of the house): "I don't know why there aren't uprisings all over the country."

Senator Tim Kaine (democrat): "What we've got to do is fight in Congress, fight in the courts, fight in the streets, fight online, fight at the ballot box, and now there's the momentum to be able to do this."


The above quotes could all be considered as direct incitement to (or justification for) violence, but no one seems to be upset by them.


You mention Trump's achievements and that's something that many people refuse to acknowledge. I don't think anyone would deny many of his daft moments, but not starting a single war was unprecedented in recent times. His reigning in of North Korea would have been considered masterful if managed by anyone else. Restoration of diplomatic ties, cordial relations and direct flights between Israel and several middle eastern countries would have been rewarded with a nobel peace prize, again if it had been managed by anyone else - that process is still dividends.

Anyone who thinks that Trump was an unmitigated disaster would do well to pay attention to US foreign policy during the next four years. They'd also do well to watch employment figures in the US, but that will be heavily skewed by the pandemic.

What I'm trying to get at is that Trump wasn't an ideal president, but nor was he evil incarnate. The man bums and blows a bit, but he got stuff done for America and many other countries.
 
The speech was heavy on rhetoric and bluster, but nothing that would ordinarily be considered unusual for a politician. I'm not going to claim that some people weren't driven on by his words, but that his words certainly don't come close to incitement of violence.

The contrast with words from many of his political opponents, over the past year, is stark:

Chris Cuomo (CNN Journalist and brother of Democrat Governor of New York) speaking about antifa protesting in NY: "Show me where it says that protests are supposed to be polite and peaceful?"

Nancy Pelosi speaking at 2020 Democrat National Congress: "You've got to be ready to throw a punch."

Maxine Waters (democrat representative) addressing a crowd of supporters: "If you see anybody from that cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd, and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere."

Senator Cory Brooker (democrat) addressing activists: "Get up in the face of some congress people."

Eric Holder (unsuccessful democrat candidate 2020) addressing supporters: "When they go low, we kick them. That's what this new democratic party is about."

Madonna Speaking publicly: "I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house."

Robert DeNero speaking about Trump on video to followers: "I'd like to punch him in the face."

Jonny Depp at public rally: "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"

Kamala Harris during news interview about nationwide protests: "They're not going to stop.... and nor should they."

Nancy Pelosi (speaker of the house): "I don't know why there aren't uprisings all over the country."

Senator Tim Kaine (democrat): "What we've got to do is fight in Congress, fight in the courts, fight in the streets, fight online, fight at the ballot box, and now there's the momentum to be able to do this."


The above quotes could all be considered as direct incitement to (or justification for) violence, but no one seems to be upset by them.


You mention Trump's achievements and that's something that many people refuse to acknowledge. I don't think anyone would deny many of his daft moments, but not starting a single war was unprecedented in recent times. His reigning in of North Korea would have been considered masterful if managed by anyone else. Restoration of diplomatic ties, cordial relations and direct flights between Israel and several middle eastern countries would have been rewarded with a nobel peace prize, again if it had been managed by anyone else - that process is still dividends.

Anyone who thinks that Trump was an unmitigated disaster would do well to pay attention to US foreign policy during the next four years. They'd also do well to watch employment figures in the US, but that will be heavily skewed by the pandemic.

What I'm trying to get at is that Trump wasn't an ideal president, but nor was he evil incarnate. The man bums and blows a bit, but he got stuff done for America and many other countries.

Don't you be bringing reason to a bitch fight, there are entrenched positions to defend here.
 
Qui bono?

As always who benefits?

That most people do not know that many Republican senators were going to use, rightfully, the counting ceremony as an opportunity to air their objections and get them on record is very telling.

The fact that this "insurrection" allowed the process to be halted and subsequently waived through without contest tell us all we need to know.
My Latin stopped after we tried bombing the Latin teacher with books above the open door on April fools day, so you'll have to guide me here.
 
The speech was heavy on rhetoric and bluster, but nothing that would ordinarily be considered unusual for a politician. I'm not going to claim that some people weren't driven on by his words, but that his words certainly don't come close to incitement of violence.

The contrast with words from many of his political opponents, over the past year, is stark:

Chris Cuomo (CNN Journalist and brother of Democrat Governor of New York) speaking about antifa protesting in NY: "Show me where it says that protests are supposed to be polite and peaceful?"

Nancy Pelosi speaking at 2020 Democrat National Congress: "You've got to be ready to throw a punch."

Maxine Waters (democrat representative) addressing a crowd of supporters: "If you see anybody from that cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd, and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere."

Senator Cory Brooker (democrat) addressing activists: "Get up in the face of some congress people."

Eric Holder (unsuccessful democrat candidate 2020) addressing supporters: "When they go low, we kick them. That's what this new democratic party is about."

Madonna Speaking publicly: "I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house."

Robert DeNero speaking about Trump on video to followers: "I'd like to punch him in the face."

Jonny Depp at public rally: "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"

Kamala Harris during news interview about nationwide protests: "They're not going to stop.... and nor should they."

Nancy Pelosi (speaker of the house): "I don't know why there aren't uprisings all over the country."

Senator Tim Kaine (democrat): "What we've got to do is fight in Congress, fight in the courts, fight in the streets, fight online, fight at the ballot box, and now there's the momentum to be able to do this."


The above quotes could all be considered as direct incitement to (or justification for) violence, but no one seems to be upset by them.


You mention Trump's achievements and that's something that many people refuse to acknowledge. I don't think anyone would deny many of his daft moments, but not starting a single war was unprecedented in recent times. His reigning in of North Korea would have been considered masterful if managed by anyone else. Restoration of diplomatic ties, cordial relations and direct flights between Israel and several middle eastern countries would have been rewarded with a nobel peace prize, again if it had been managed by anyone else - that process is still dividends.

Anyone who thinks that Trump was an unmitigated disaster would do well to pay attention to US foreign policy during the next four years. They'd also do well to watch employment figures in the US, but that will be heavily skewed by the pandemic.

What I'm trying to get at is that Trump wasn't an ideal president, but nor was he evil incarnate. The man bums and blows a bit, but he got stuff done for America and many other countries.
I'd have to google his achievements, think most of them were stated by someone else, including the Wall. Not sure what he achieved with North Korea, apart from a tourist trip.
 
My Latin stopped after we tried bombing the Latin teacher with books above the open door on April fools day, so you'll have to guide me here.
I did its in the second line, who benefits.

You see to believe events were as we are being told you have to believe that,

1, The fanaticalTrump supporters were more interested in torching the Capitol than listening to their Fuhrer speak.

2, They were so stupid that they didn't realise their actions would prevent their case being heard in a full official setting and allow the Dems to push through the electoral college count unopposed.

Or...

Trump deliberately delayed and dragged out his speech keeping the vast majority of his supporters a 45 minute walk away from the Capitol.

The Orchestrated 'insurrection' had to go ahead as there were too many unstoppable wheels in motion and the protest speeches were going on at the count.

The Agent Provocateurs were allowed entry followed by a rag tag buch of professional protesters in MAGA hats and possibly a few stray Trump supporters.

The count was suspended and completed behind close doors.

All the Republican planned challenges were not heard, the evidence of fraud is still not on record.

The media can continue to proclaim there are no credible allegations of fraud.


All the consequences of the "Insurrection" benefitted the Democrats and, despite the allegations laid out in the latest sham impeachment' Trump actually did everything in his power to keep his supporters away from the Capitol.
 
While every man and his dog in the media throw dirt at Trump, mainly for his loose lips here is a declassified investigation into the Biden's in particularly Hunter (Presidents son) while Joe Biden was Vice President for Obama.

It exposes corruption and fraud where Joe Biden was well aware and also part of the sequence of events.

The USA has now got a president that is closely linked to corruption and money laundering with foreign states while he was Vice president exposing very strong links to the CCP and in other documents we find his family in receipt of large financial sums through corrupt deals, it is no coincidence that some of the first Executive Orders Biden signed bring foreign nations in particular China back into the USA energy market reversing the independence Trump had created and why Biden shut down a pipeline link to Canada crushing 50,000 job, but of course you know that already, you saw that in the news didn't you ?????
Trump should not have ever been president as it wasn't the way it had been set up but so high was public anger at the establishment that even in the face of underhand tactics by the dem's and foreign states it still wasn't enough to stop Trump... a mistake they ensured would not happen again.

If you understand the names and the Burisma scandal you will be blown away at the level of corruption Obama and Biden were involved in, this is just a sample, it is lengthy and mentions names that you may be unfamiliar with which is key to understanding it all but for a concise conclusion go to P86

 
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While every man and his dog in the media throw dirt at Trump, mainly for his loose lips here is a declassified investigation into the Biden's in particularly Hunter (Presidents son) while Joe Biden was Vice President for Obama.

It exposes corruption and fraud where Joe Biden was well aware and also part of the sequence of events.

The USA has now got a president that is closely linked to corruption and money laundering with foreign states while he was Vice president exposing very strong links to the CCP and in other documents we find his family in receipt of large financial sums through corrupt deals, it is no coincidence that some of the first Executive Orders Biden signed bring foreign nations in particular China back into the USA energy market reversing the independence Trump had created and why Biden shut down a pipeline link to Canada crushing 50,000 job, but of course you know that already, you saw that in the news didn't you ?????
Trump should not have ever been president as it wasn't the way it had been set up but so high was public anger at the establishment that even in the face of underhand tactics by the dem's and foreign states it still wasn't enough to stop Trump... a mistake they ensured would not happen again.

If you understand the names and the Burisma scandal you will be blown away at the level of corruption Obama and Biden were involved in, this is just a sample, it is lengthy and mentions names that you may be unfamiliar with which is key to understanding it all but for a concise conclusion go to P86

I don’t see why you are obsessed with the idea that all news/media etc are always wrong and providing false information. You as an individual can’t be providing the sole source of information, for the forum to believe it’s true and factual. You see this report and decide, everything in it is substantial and true.

If a loved is missing or something you care about, and someone tells you they’ve seen them, you want to believe them.

I read & watch the news etc and make my own decision, knowing sometimes the truth can never get in the way of a good story.

I recall this report coming out before the campaign started. I recall it’s been based on a report by two Trump supporters, with countless claims, but would appear to have little actual evidence to support these claims.

If there is any truth in these claims, then further investigation should happen. This report, it is a report not a proper investigation, should be viewed carefully.

Seems not all Republicans agreed on its time of release;

 
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