water bonding and an awkward tenant

[opm electrical]

i had some fun the other day with a job, i went to do an kitchen upgrade and complete minor works cert for it, while i appreciate the need to check gas and water bonding when you walk into a job i saw a 17th edition board and thought all was well. wrong. i had completed the work and went to test. the gas meter was right next to the board so the bonding was up to standard, the water stopcock was on the other side of the house and yes you guessed it. the lazy **** that put the board in could'nt be ***** to put it in. more to the point it was 4.30 pm and neither could i. so i rang my supervisor and asked if it was ok to go back and do it, 'no you cant leave site without bonding being up to standard, niceic code 1'. the tenant wasnt happy that i had to pull his carpets and boards up at that time of day.
what i actually want to know is because i do some work for myself where do i stand if the customer is not prepared to pay for the extra bonding if it was one of my own jobs?

 

[Eggster71]

When you quote jobs you either do a thorough site visit beforehand and/ or make sure you put as a condition in your quote that any unseen faults will have to be addressed at the occupier's cost.

 

[opm electrical]

apologies for the language lenny, i propose a forum be created where we can go and vent our frustrations about customers and tenants.

forgot to mention also ended up involved in a dispute with the company that fitted the board as the tenant wasnt happy that it wasnt done in the first place

 

[Guest123]

apologies for the language lenny, i propose a forum be created where we can go and vent our frustrations about customers and tenants.

We have one....http://www.electriciansforums.net/sparky-pub/

 

[Spudnik]

i propose a forum be created where we can go and vent our frustrations about customers and tenants.

Thats what the sparky pub is for..

 

[Eggster71]

Thats what the sparky pub is for..

The virtual beer's free as well!

 

[opm electrical]

yeah but i cant get in there cos i work for someone else, ill just sit outside in the cold looking in until i pick up enough work to go full time self employed

 

[Sintra]

i had some fun the other day with a job, i went to do an kitchen upgrade and complete minor works cert for it, while i appreciate the need to check gas and water bonding when you walk into a job i saw a 17th edition board and thought all was well. wrong. i had completed the work and went to test. the gas meter was right next to the board so the bonding was up to standard, the water stopcock was on the other side of the house and yes you guessed it. the lazy **** that put the board in could'nt be ***** to put it in. more to the point it was 4.30 pm and neither could i. so i rang my supervisor and asked if it was ok to go back and do it, 'no you cant leave site without bonding being up to standard, niceic code 1'. the tenant wasnt happy that i had to pull his carpets and boards up at that time of day.

You answered the question for yourself. Check bonding before you work and bring to clients attention. If they don't want to pay walk away.

Before an addition or alteration can be made to an existing installation it must be ascertained that the earthing and bonding arrangements comply with the current version of BS7671 and any existing equipment including the incoming supply is adequate for the proposed addition or alteration. 131.8

 

[TPES]

If bonding to gas and water is only 6mm, How many of you are leaving this in and not upgrading to 10mm?

 

[Sintra]

If bonding to gas and water is only 6mm, How many of you are leaving this in and not upgrading to 10mm?

Whats wrong with 6mm?

For TN-S or TT systems the csa of main protective bonding conductors must be a minimum of 6mm and not be less than half the csa of the main earthing conductor. 544.1.1

 

[TPES]

Whats wrong with 6mm?

For TN-S or TT systems the csa of main protective bonding conductors must be a minimum of 6mm and not be less than half the csa of the main earthing conductor. 544.1.1

Nothing!

I just hear of sparks who have no idea on what is acceptable and what isnt. and are saying no matter what the supply there insisting on 10mm bonding being installed

Seems abit unfair on the customer to me to be paying for there bonding to be upgraded when its probably fine as it is

 

[Sintra]

Nothing!

I just hear of sparks who have no idea on what is acceptable and what isnt. and are saying no matter what the supply there insisting on 10mm bonding being installed

Seems abit unfair on the customer to me to be paying for there bonding to be upgraded when its probably as it is

Very unfair.

The only reasons for this as you say is either lack of knowledge on behalf of the spark or a spark that knows it is ok but wants to make a few extra quid.

 

[supasparxs]

The virtual beer's free as well!

to go with the vertual pay rise in tghe new year......

 

[Eggster71]

to go with the vertual pay rise in tghe new year......

About time!!

I generally install 16mm/ 10mm in TT now as quite a few are being PME'd around here. At least that way the customer only has to have floors up etc the once!
I've also seen a recommendation for it somewhere, although this might just have been in an NICEIC publication!

 

[opm electrical]

if its a TT with 6mm i leave it but a TN if its not 10mm then i make it 10mm. if there is no bonding at all on a TT then we get told to put a 10 in anyway,
here's a question for you. is it allowed to bond the gas and water with the same 10mm cable if the conductor is not broken?
not hthst ive ever done that i have just come across it

 

[Sintra]

if its a TT with 6mm i leave it but a TN if its not 10mm then i make it 10mm. if there is no bonding at all on a TT then we get told to put a 10 in anyway,
here's a question for you. is it allowed to bond the gas and water with the same 10mm cable if the conductor is not broken?
not hthst ive ever done that i have just come across it

Yes that is 100% ok to do.

 

[BristolSpark]

Can you use lugs on the earth straps when bonding

 

[Spudnik]

If running one 10mm, it is good practice to bond the water incoming before the gas if practicable.

 

[jimsky007]

Heres a question for you

If you are carrying out a PIR and the house that has 6mm bonding to water & gas what code would you give it in your report??

and would it fail overall because of it??

Is the house any less safe with 6mm than with 10mm

 

[robsparky1975]

i had some fun the other day with a job, i went to do an kitchen upgrade and complete minor works cert for it, while i appreciate the need to check gas and water bonding when you walk into a job i saw a 17th edition board and thought all was well. wrong. i had completed the work and went to test. the gas meter was right next to the board so the bonding was up to standard, the water stopcock was on the other side of the house and yes you guessed it. the lazy **** that put the board in could'nt be ***** to put it in. more to the point it was 4.30 pm and neither could i. so i rang my supervisor and asked if it was ok to go back and do it, 'no you cant leave site without bonding being up to standard, niceic code 1'. the tenant wasnt happy that i had to pull his carpets and boards up at that time of day.
what i actually want to know is because i do some work for myself where do i stand if the customer is not prepared to pay for the extra bonding if it was one of my own jobs?

hmmmm yes i had the same problem,but checked the main bonding before start of job so knew what was involved,a git of a route to water main but they always are,managed to get hold of sparky who had new shower circuit and 2way board installed asked him about why bonding not present when nic cert signed for 10mm gas/water,he said one of his subbies done it,a likely story,nic punish people for such things,anyway check out iet website for guidance notes on loads of different things like replacing consumer units etc,bonding first thing i check if not in then at clients expense,you can only trust yourself in this game.sad to see niceic registered installers cutting corners,not the first time ive seen this either,replacement consumer unit at job i went to and when i checked for bonding no gas bond?
sparky who installed it left a message to say 17th ed units dont need main bond because rcd protected?do u see what i mean,this guy must be about 110 years old.