UK Why are new build prices so bad?

[Dom7177]

Hi , I've recently started on a new build site in essex, self employed sub contracting for a colchester company for which I have done work for 3 years .recently I've started to take the prices as a personal insult. A 3 bed house 1st fix including 2x data, 2x tv points 3x bt around 16 x sockets , 2 zone combi heating with weather compensater, oven and separate hob,3x smokes 1x heat , 1x co detectors, 4x fans, shaver socket, 10xlights and switches and 2x outside lights and garage supply is £250 which is around £600 pound less than the plumbers 1st fix price! How can anyone do a good job for that? And apart from walk off site ( which I have done) what can be done? And why are electricians the worse paid trade on new build sites?oh and the 2nd fix price was £10 less

 

[Dave OCD]

That is ridiculous ! And explains a lot why workmanship seems so poor in new builds if these prices are the norm now. To first fix that properly would be a good 2 days work and the same for the 2nd fix and then there's the testing and cert ?
You'd be better of working on a till in Tescos !

 

[SJD]

I guess the prices are so low because people can be found who will work for such rates. And because the wiring is mostly unseen, the end customer perhaps doesn't know how good or bad it is.

I've been in new builds (for extras after handover) where some of the wiring was appalling, unenclosed choc blocks waving about in the loft, etc.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Thats atrocious mate

10+ years I was getting £200 to fist fix a one bed flat and then £200 to second fix (no testing)



250 to first fix a 3 bedder is laughable

 

[Ian1981]

So you are saying £250 for a first fix labour only?
Walk away.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Has to be Labour only , the cables on a 3 bedder would be over 250

 

[telectrix]

all down to the tight fisted developer screwing the maximum profit for the minimum outlay. end of the day it's the buyer that suffers, morgaging a cardboard box for 25-30 years.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The trouble Is the developers will always find somebody to throw the cables in for £10 a hour , there is no shortage of cheap Labour out there.
It’s been this way since I started out.
It’s not a bad starting point for a young sparks to cut their teeth lashing in new builds for a 100 quid a day.
Most decent sparks after a year or so will move into private jobs and small building works where the rates are much much better

 

[Dom7177]

That is ridiculous ! And explains a lot why workmanship seems so poor in new builds if these prices are the norm now. To first fix that properly would be a good 2 days work and the same for the 2nd fix and then there's the testing and cert ?
You'd be better of working on a till in Tescos !

Testing and cert are separate but yes would be better working in Tesco I've done 6 plots and made less money than the labourer! To add to it the ducting which involves 2 core holes through near engineering brick and in ridged ducting is priced at £40. The things is guys are doing this work but how can you and be comfortable with the work you have done more so on second fix where you need the time to be satisfied with the standard of your work to me its dangerous but it's all about the directors bonus at the end of he day

 

[Dom7177]

I guess the prices are so low because people can be found who will work for such rates. And because the wiring is mostly unseen, the end customer perhaps doesn't know how good or bad it is.

I've been in new builds (for extras after handover) where some of the wiring was appalling, unenclosed choc blocks waving about in the loft,

 

[pirate]

I have said many times on this forum that I hate new builds...this is just one example of why. In some ways, the wetpants get a better deal because usually if they mess up the dripping water is a give-away sign, but dripping electricity is invisible..As Tel said, mortgaging a cardboard box for 25 years, and some will not last that long.
Yes, you can have a new house that is fit for purpose, but only if you build it yourself, or with architect, good builder and supervision. A mass house builder will save 10p if possible. It's a shocking indictment of today's homes. but go to an average new estate and you will get crap for your money. I cannot understand why folks part with so much money for so little...but then again, they don't know what goes on. The shiny kitchens and bathrooms are all they see.

 

[Dom7177]

Yes I came in to new builds late and was and still am shocked by the quality of work . But I guess what are you gonna get for these prices? Which is my point companies paying this little something should be done

 

[nicebutdim]

I guess the prices are so low because people can be found who will work for such rates.

^^This.

Simple economics which can be seen anywhere that supply outstrips demand. It's the same with all those online bargains - people are prepared to make a couple of pence, rather than let someone else make a sale.

Common sense should dictate that no one would drop below a certain rate, but there will always be a queue of people waiting to do exactly that.

 

[Dom7177]

^^This.

Simple economics which can be seen anywhere that supply outstrips demand. It's the same with all those online bargains - people are prepared to make a couple of pence, rather than let someone else make a sale.

Common sense should dictate that no one would drop below a certain rate, but there will always be a queue of people waiting to do exactly that.

Yes you're spot on but when a tiler pulls up holding a £20 trowel telling you he earns 250 -300 a day you wonder what it's all about

 

[pirate]

Ah...but the shiny new tiles are looking fab, and Marlene down the road will be jealous...no-one ever thinks "Wow" I bet the electrics in this place are amazing!" Can't see it...don't care.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Scroll to 1.50 in this video and watch how the kitchen plug sockets are installed in these London new build apartments

that’s how you wire a new flat for 250 , just rushed and sloppy

 

[Dom7177]

Scroll to 1.50 in this video and watch how the kitchen plug sockets are installed in these London new build apartments

that’s how you wire a new flat for 250 , just rushed and sloppy

A flat would be around 180 no joke. Everything is 2nd fixed with a battery drill sockets , c. u. The works

 

[Dave OCD]

Even light switches and fittings ?? It's quite depressing the way this trade is heading isn't it ?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Even light switches and fittings ?? It's quite depressing the way this trade is heading isn't it ?

seen quite a few youngsters use an impact driver on switches and sockets recently ...

 

[Dave OCD]

I'd have to use a lot of restraint to beat the urge to kick them in the b0ll0cks. What is this obsession with impact drivers ? Hate the things.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I'd have to use a lot of restraint to beat the urge to kick them in the b0ll0cks. What is this obsession with impact drivers ? Hate the things.

speed / looks cool ( dint worry if you mangle all the terminals)

 

[Dave OCD]

Yeah I do think it's to do with image, just like waving the latest phone about in public. Pathetic isn't it ?

 

[snowhead]

Yes you're spot on but when a tiler pulls up holding a £20 trowel telling you he earns 250 -300 a day you wonder what it's all about

Has anybody actually seen the wageslip or yearly accounts of these so called high earners.
It's easy to talk B*llocks.

He may earn 250 - 300 a day but is that every day or occasionally, how many hours a day do they work and what do they earn on the rest of the days / months / years.

 

[Dustydazzler]

What do site tilers get these days , used to be £25-35 pm Labour only , most could easily do a sq mtr per hour

I think we paid our tiler £60-65 pm to do our bathroom but he provided all the adhesive/ grout/ trim etc in that , we just supplied the tiles

pretty decent money if you are fast

 

[Dom7177]

Even light switches and fittings ?? It's quite depressing the way this trade is heading isn't it ?

It is in this particular part of it . I came into new builds after 15 years employed by a small company where it was customer based ,all about quality of work but unfortunately not great pay. So a friend who had been doing new builds for some time got me into price work on new builds .I was instantly shocked by the quality of work and was constantly told that i had to drop my standards to be able to make money. Something I'm not happy doing however I did ok ,but it seems recently there is a lot more involved but prices have been cut to a level where to do the job in the time the price allows is frankly dangerous

 

[Leesparkykent]

My lads are on £800 a 1st fix atm. 3 story, 3 bed house with one en-suite. Data and coax to each TV point, downlights in kitchen and bathrooms.

 

[7029 dave]

The trouble Is the developers will always find somebody to throw the cables in for £10 a hour , there is no shortage of cheap Labour out there.
It’s been this way since I started out.
It’s not a bad starting point for a young sparks to cut their teeth lashing in new builds for a 100 quid a day.
Most decent sparks after a year or so will move into private jobs and small building works where the rates are much much better

Yep I remember the boss saying to a first year apprentice, just copy the first fix of the other house. lol

There's your cheap labour Been going on for years.

 

[Dom7177]

My lads are on £800 a 1st fix atm. 3 story, 3 bed house with one en-suite. Data and coax to each TV point, downlights in kitchen

 

[pirate]

Checked out some new builds a few years back, TV points in every room. That wasn't a lie, but there was no coax connected to them...
Correction...there was a short length attached but only about a foot long, disappearing into the cavity. The loft aerials were there with a length of coax attached to them, but the end of the cable was just buried under the insulation. You can do a 3 bed an hour that way, then off you go in your van with cash in your pocket, and swap your PAYG SIM-card and no-one can get in contact with you. Inspection? None...

 

[Edtwozeronine]

?

 

[Dom7177]

That's a good price . I'm sure you have lads that want to do a good job for that . If you get short of labour I'll be available

 

[Dustydazzler]

the last lot of new builds I did we didn’t connect the coax , data or phone points , we just had to coil em up in the boxes and the new owners would have to pay to get them connected

We 1st fix the boiler wiring but wet pants had to wire them up

 

[pirate]

Push-fits...everyone's a plumber
Wagos...everyone's an electrician
Nail gun...everyone's a builder
Impact driver...everyone's a flash bast*rd
Proper but modest set of the correct tools, and a day to wire up a dozen sockets and install some downlights properly...oh, just call me, and I'll turn up on time, stay til the job's done and switch my mobile off on arrival too
it'll cost you though!

 

[Leesparkykent]

That's a good price . I'm sure you have lads that want to do a good job for that . If you get short of labour I'll be available

Where abouts are you based?

 

[pirate]

Faster than my arthritic fingers can manage...but not exactly great, is it?
still, i have time on my hands and don't have to earn a living doing it quickly.
I like wiring plugs, it's therapeutic. OK, I don't exactly ferrule them all, but might double over, tighten the terminal screws, pick up the bits of insulation and bin 'em, then just give the terminal screws a final tighten in case of "creep"
Jeez...I sound like my dad!

 

[nicebutdim]

Yes you're spot on but when a tiler pulls up holding a £20 trowel telling you he earns 250 -300 a day you wonder what it's all about

Either there are less tilers than available jobs or enough of them aren't prepared to work for peanuts.

 

[nicebutdim]

Has anybody actually seen the wageslip or yearly accounts of these so called high earners.
It's easy to talk B*llocks.

He may earn 250 - 300 a day but is that every day or occasionally, how many hours a day do they work and what do they earn on the rest of the days / months / years.

We needed a tiler a few months back and were let down by three in a row - several others didn't want to know as they were flat out with new builds. In the end we got a guy that sells himself as a "high-end" tiler and charges accordingly. Nothing high-end about his work, but average was good enough to get the job done (albeit at at a high price).

Then again, I've struggled to get an electrician here as well.

 

[nicebutdim]

What do site tilers get these days , used to be £25-35 pm Labour only , most could easily do a sq mtr per hour

I think we paid our tiler £60-65 pm to do our bathroom but he provided all the adhesive/ grout/ trim etc in that , we just supplied the tiles

pretty decent money if you are fast

£420 to do a small ensuite, with us supplying all materials. Tiler paid the plumber for his couple of hours.

Still haven't managed to get rid of the mess he left outside.

 

[Electrics]

Has anybody actually seen the wageslip or yearly accounts of these so called high earners.
It's easy to talk B*llocks.

He may earn 250 - 300 a day but is that every day or occasionally, how many hours a day do they work and what do they earn on the rest of the days / months / years.

300 a day isn't going to help their bone on bone knees and wrecked back in their 50's.

 

[cliffed]

Even light switches and fittings ?? It's quite depressing the way this trade is heading isn't it ?

Yep...it’s got worst over the years it’s the i don’t care attitude,if it looks rough leave it.

 

[DPG]

Scroll to 1.50 in this video and watch how the kitchen plug sockets are installed in these London new build apartments

that’s how you wire a new flat for 250 , just rushed and sloppy

But isn't that the one where he makes it even worse by connecting a new socket to it, and then snakes the cable around the edge of the cupboards?

 

[loz2754]

Just watched the video.
So it looks like he has connected a spur off a spur, unless the isolation switches he mentions have fuses.
And the cable to the new socket is not in a recognised safe zone.

 

[mattg4321]

Out of interest are you chasing boxes in for these new builds or 25mm box screwed surface and dot and dabbed plasterboard?

 

[Ian1981]

Drilled and fixed direct to block work or noggins fitted then fixed if dry lined wall

 

[Pete999]

Some times unskilled cheaper labour is used.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I’ve been on quite a few developments where Labourers do all the cable pulls , boxes , noggins etc
the electricians / mates only come along on second fix stage And then someone else later to do the testing.
probably the last few new jobs were like that ...

 

[telectrix]

labourers at £10/hour.mates at £15. then a qualified spark to test on price (as he's on £40/hour).. 30 minutes allowed per house. EIC better used as bog paper.

 

[Steviec1]

labourers at £10/hour.mates at £15. then a qualified spark to test on price (as he's on £40/hour).. 30 minutes allowed per house. EIC better used as bog paper.

If you want to make money as an electrician, you are better off working on atex or substations, theme parks is another big payer, well worked for me anyway?

 

[Rockingit]

It's a shocking indictment of today's homes. but go to an average new estate and you will get crap for your money. I cannot understand why folks part with so much money for so little...but then again, they don't know what goes on. The shiny kitchens and bathrooms are all they see.

Reason's are simple.... 1) younger house buyers haven't got a first clue of what they're looking at (consider half the EICR and DIY posts we see on here!) 2) beggars choice - 'proper' houses just aren't available and affordable 3) A new build hamster cage is luxury at £900 month mortgage by comparison to the £1k a month rent on a mouldy dilapidated 1960's (or whatever the maths is)

 

[Dustydazzler]

labourers at £10/hour.mates at £15. then a qualified spark to test on price (as he's on £40/hour).. 30 minutes allowed per house. EIC better used as bog paper.

with the price of bog paper these days, I might start using my old test pad instead ...