UK Why are new build prices so bad?

[DPG]

I know standards have dropped, but have a look at some of the 2nd hand houses that are available. Damp, dry rot, no cavity walls, no RCDs, rubber cable,.lead pipes, solid floors with no air flow, etc. Etc. At least a new build will be dry and cheaper to keep warm. There's good and bad in both camps.

 

[telectrix]

i'd rather have a damp, cold house made of solid bricks with proper plaster on the walls, not cardborard coated dust stuck on by some dry wall oiks. at leastyou can improve the old houses without demolishing them.

 

[DPG]

i'd rather have a damp, cold house made of solid bricks with proper plaster on the walls, not cardborard coated dust stuck on by some dry wall oiks. at leastyou can improve the old houses without demolishing them.

I know quite a few people with older houses, and they always seem to be fighting against them. And does it really matter that internal walls are studs rather than brick? Or that they use trusses instead of separate beams?

 

[nicebutdim]

i'd rather have a damp, cold house made of solid bricks with proper plaster on the walls, not cardborard coated dust stuck on by some dry wall oiks. at leastyou can improve the old houses without demolishing them.

Most new builds in NI are block/block or block/brick cavity walled, with all internal walls floated out in plaster - downstairs walls solid and studding upstairs.

We do have timber framed construction, but nowhere near as common. Never seen dot and dab.

 

[Mike Johnson]

As the custodian of a very old house I feel I have an obligation to preserve it, I certainly don't feel I am fighting it.

 

[DPG]

As the custodian of a very old house I feel I have an obligation to preserve it, I certainly don't feel I am fighting it.

I probably didn't word it very well. I'm actually a big fan of older houses, but I also see the advantages of newer ones.

Sitting on the fence as usual. Modern fence though with no rot

 

[Mike Johnson]

If the fence you are sitting on is capable of rotting then it's timber in which case its not modern ask any tree.

 

[telectrix]

try crawling through a 3ft high ( at the highest point) attic made of trusses, where the only space to get through to crawl from the hatch, the wet-pants has fitted a water tank.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Has anybody actually seen the wageslip or yearly accounts of these so called high earners.
It's easy to talk B*llocks.

He may earn 250 - 300 a day but is that every day or occasionally, how many hours a day do they work and what do they earn on the rest of the days / months / years.

My thinking too.
Its all good and well earning £300 per day but is that every day every week? or occasional?
I can earn £300-350 a day often but then you have days where there is lots of small bits and admin where you earn £160 but averages out well overall

 

[telectrix]

I know quite a few people with older houses, and they always seem to be fighting against them. And does it really matter that internal walls are studs rather than brick? Or that they use trusses instead of separate beams?

roof trusses are the spawn of Satan. how are you supposed to store anything up there, unless you have triangular boxes.

 

[Pete999]

Most new builds in NI are block/block or block/brick cavity walled, with all internal walls floated out in plaster - downstairs walls solid and studding upstairs.

We do have timber framed construction, but nowhere near as common. Never seen dot and dab.

You aint lived then Mate. builder del diablo, buildings from the Devils Trade

 

[telectrix]

dot and dab is the worst thing since the EU. we got rid of that PITA. next is dot and dab. get back to proper construction.

 

[Dustydazzler]

roof trusses are the spawn of Satan. how are you supposed to store anything up there, unless you have triangular boxes.

Just cut them out , that will open the space right up

 

[OnlQQker]

It all started to go wrong with the introduction of Health & Safety.
Put pay to using your workmate as a workmate for example.

 

[nicebutdim]

try crawling through a 3ft high ( at the highest point) attic made of trusses, where the only space to get through to crawl from the hatch, the wet-pants has fitted a water tank.

Know it too well.

I live in a modern house, but grew up in an old place that evolved (literally) over 300 odd years and still have to do a fair bit of maintenance to it.

Lots to love about the new place, but I can't see it still standing 300 years from now.

Lots to love about that old place, but there have been plenty of times where I'd happily have torn it down.

Doesn't matter what age a house is, one certainty is that it's going to swallow vast sums of your hard earned cash.

 

[Zerax]

dot and dab is the worst thing since the EU. we got rid of that PITA. next is dot and dab. get back to proper construction.

I'm voting for you at the next election ! I also hate Dot & Dab... my flat has it... I had really bad noise from next door even though I'm sure it's all built to Regs Part E. I replaced the dot & dab in one room with the dense foam/plasterboard system... and wow... what a difference ! I can't actually hear what they're calling each other anymore... just a low rumble when the row really kicks off !

Would have added about £200 to the build cost... nothing really.

 

[nicebutdim]

dot and dab is the worst thing since the EU. we got rid of that PITA. next is dot and dab. get back to proper construction.

Truth be told, I learned about dot and dab from watching youtube electrical videos. Still struggle to get my head around it - the nearest I've ever seen is where rooms have been battened and boarded to refurb on the cheap.

I can see why people would use it in an old place to save money and hide problems, but how much cheaper can it be than a decent plaster finish?

 

[Zerax]

At least a new build will be dry and cheaper to keep warm. There's good and bad in both camps.

Yeah... I agree.. in many ways they are better... but it's the silly penny pinching at build stage that annoys me... an extra 5% spend would give you something 30% better. From what I see, they are built exactly down to building regs level and not a micron higher !

We're still building thousands and thousands of houses with inadequate insulation, gas boilers and no facility whatsoever for car charging ! It's lunacy...

 

[DPG]

Yeah... I agree.. in many ways they are better... but it's the silly penny pinching at build stage that annoys me... an extra 5% spend would give you something 30% better. From what I see, they are built exactly down to building regs level and not a micron higher !

We're still building thousands and thousands of houses with inadequate insulation, gas boilers and no facility whatsoever for car charging ! It's lunacy...

Agree. And they should have solar panels fitted from new. Would save a fortune doing it while the scaffold is already up and sparkies are available.

 

[Zerax]

Truth be told, I learned about dot and dab from watching youtube electrical videos. Still struggle to get my head around it - the nearest I've ever seen is where rooms have been battened and boarded to refurb on the cheap.

I can see why people would use it in an old place to save money and hide problems, but how much cheaper can it be than a decent plaster finish?

It's used because it's cheap to do... almost full sheets of plasterboard stuck to wall go up mega quickly... and of course the drying out time is far quicker... just a thin skim to go off. Then everyone can crack on with 2nd fix. Lower skill level too... so cheaper on labour.

 

[Zerax]

Agree. And they should have solar panels fitted from new. Would save a fortune doing it while the scaffold is already up and sparkies are available.

The whole solar panel thing though.. in the UK... is a tricky one.. without government subsidies, and with the price of grid sourced power what it is... they don't currently make any economic sense. If the price of grid sourced power were to double though... they start to become viable ceteris paribus.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Love a dot n dab wall

you can fish wires behind it on Rewires

 

[nicebutdim]

Love a dot n dab wall

you can fish wires behind it on Rewires

Not sure I'd want to have dot and dab, just so someone can easily rewire after I'm dead and buried ?

 

[Dom7177]

Out of interest are you chasing boxes in for these new builds or 25mm box screwed surface and dot and dabbed plasterboard?

No most boxes are screwed straight to the wall .we have to chase in for a media box , cooker switches and shaver sockets if they are not in a dryline wall

 

[freddo]

I'll turn up on time, stay til the job's done and switch my mobile off on arrival too

We are still looking for full time electricians!!

 

[Dustydazzler]

Not sure I'd want to have dot and dab, just so someone can easily rewire after I'm dead and buried ?

think of the next poor bloke

 

[buzzlightyear]

I have not worked on a building site for years ,if the op dont like it move on .

 

[pirate]

Roof trusses are only there to hold the roof in place. You can't floor the loft and store stuff there. NHBC handbook for new homes warns you of this. Old house with 9x6 and queen-posts allows you to build another storey. new houses with unreinforced strip foundations preclude that as the loading would be too high even if the roof construction is strong enough. Imagine filling a double-ender bath with water and 2 people in the attic on a new build...
Near me, a "well-respected" builder had a problem when owners found rising damp. Surveyor arrived...can't be rising damp in a 6-month old timber frame house! Oh, right...built on a concrete raft, and the plasterboard walls are sitting on the slab, with no gap and no membrane. Builder: we built as per the drawings! FFS...you are not a builder if you don't query that design. Job and finish...
Scottish schools falling down, built with P{FI money...walls fall down and child is killed...no ties in the walls. Brickie to blame cos he should have mentioned it and refused to do the job?
Foreman to blame because he didn't listen to brickie and threatened to throw him off site?
BC to blame because they didn't inspect ongoing works?
Architect to blame because he didn't specify wall ties, when any brickie/foreman/ builder worth his salt would take it for granted that you don't build walls without them?
No-one to blame...
No pride, no care, no blame, nobody goes to jail...and they do it all again next week.
You guys do a proper, safe job...and nobody wants to pay you. I think strike action is the way forward! Boycott the builders, make them pay! How can you have labourers pulling in cables etc then boarding out, and only getting electricians in for 2nd fix? What happens if the tests are bad? Rip it all out again? Surely testing must take place before that?
I am heartily sick and tired of poor workmanship being accepted as the norm, driving the good guys down. I know this is an ongoing problem, and proper recognition for qualified sparks is an issue, but unless you have a revolution you will be beaten down and out.
What's that going through the roof?


Oh, it's my blood pressure!
and I'm not even an electrician...

 

[nicebutdim]

Roof trusses are only there to hold the roof in place. You can't floor the loft and store stuff there. NHBC handbook for new homes warns you of this.

Yet most builders will happily floor those lofts for a few ££ extra and never mention its load bearing capacity.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Why wasn't the Architect, Borough Council or Fire officer prosecuted for the Grenfell Tower fire? I have my own theories, but I don't think they will stand scrutiny in Court.

 

[Electrics]

Near me, a "well-respected" builder had a problem when owners found rising damp.

Rising damp isn't real.

The Fraud of Rising Damp

Rising Damp does not exist. This page helps you understand the real reasons for damp problems you experience, fraud of damp proofing company and recommendations for damp proofing.

www.heritage-house.org

 

[Electrics]

?

 

[telectrix]

what we need is an electricians' union run by Arthur Scargill. any developer tries to use unskilled cheap labour, site blockaded, Range Rovers torched, site managers blackballed...... oh well, suppose we can dream.

 

[Mike Johnson]

try crawling through a 3ft high ( at the highest point) attic made of trusses, where the only space to get through to crawl from the hatch, the wet-pants has fitted a water tank.

Where do you expect the plumber to fit it?

 

[Mike Johnson]

roof trusses are the spawn of Satan. how are you supposed to store anything up there, unless you have triangular boxes.

Satans spawn is without doubt "Cling Film"

 

[telectrix]

Where do you expect the plumber to fit it?

it would have fitted offset from the main crawlway with no problem. was only a header tank for the C/H.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I am not defending the plumber, but wasn't the crawlway there for access to the tank? if the base for the tank was put in by the carpenter then that's where it was fitted, but even then it was probably easier to fit where they did, pipes are not as easy to bend around corners as cable.

 

[telectrix]

the tank was fitted right next to the loft hatch, so that the crawl way was completely blocked. as the hatch was situated 4ft. from 1 gable end it would make sense to fit the tank other side of hatch, leaving the 30ft. crawlway open to the other end.

 

[DMElec.1]

Hi , I've recently started on a new build site in essex, self employed sub contracting for a colchester company for which I have done work for 3 years .recently I've started to take the prices as a personal insult. A 3 bed house 1st fix including 2x data, 2x tv points 3x bt around 16 x sockets , 2 zone combi heating with weather compensater, oven and separate hob,3x smokes 1x heat , 1x co detectors, 4x fans, shaver socket, 10xlights and switches and 2x outside lights and garage supply is £250 which is around £600 pound less than the plumbers 1st fix price! How can anyone do a good job for that? And apart from walk off site ( which I have done) what can be done? And why are electricians the worse paid trade on new build sites?oh and the 2nd fix price was £10 less

It's because people are accepting it.

 

[cliffed]

Did a lot of houses in the 80’s they were ridiculously cheap then…
Its hard work & non stop especially when the site agent won’t sign extras…can you have a look at the CH in plot 7… power not working in …etc.
Realistically a 3/4 bedroom 1st fix is gonna take @ least 2 days…@ a push a day & a halve.
2nd fix/3rd fix @ least 2 days
All based on a mate with you …or even a Spark.

 

[Dustydazzler]

even 1990s prices were incredibly cheap compared to the last 10-15 years

I started towards the late 1990s and I still remember my dad quoting around 1500 quid for a full rewire of a 3 bed house , fully chased in , new board , new bonding , new tails etc etc

1500 quid today would get you a new board and thats about it

i still remember getting 75 quid a day to wire new builds when i started , and that was considered decent money , even the more experienced sparks were only pulling 120-130 per day when i started new flats site work

 

[pc1966]

I started towards the late 1990s and I still remember my dad quoting around 1500 quid for a full rewire of a 3 bed house , fully chased in , new board , new bonding , new tails etc etc

Using this calculator:

Inflation calculator

Use our inflation calculator to check how prices in the UK have changed over time, from 1209 to now.

www.bankofengland.co.uk

£1,500 in 1990 would be £3,486.63 in 2020, or if it was partying like 1999 then £2,658.39

However, the "inflation rate" is always an odd mix of goods and services, so some stuff in under-represented and other stuff over-represented in trying to gauge the purchasing power of a currency. In both cases it is a bit short of the ~£5k is you would be starting at today?

 

[brianmoooore]

the tank was fitted right next to the loft hatch, so that the crawl way was completely blocked. as the hatch was situated 4ft. from 1 gable end it would make sense to fit the tank other side of hatch, leaving the 30ft. crawlway open to the other end.

I've come across exactly that one myself!

 

[Dustydazzler]

Using this calculator:

Inflation calculator

Use our inflation calculator to check how prices in the UK have changed over time, from 1209 to now.

www.bankofengland.co.uk

£1,500 in 1990 would be £3,486.63 in 2020, or if it was partying like 1999 then £2,658.39

However, the "inflation rate" is always an odd mix of goods and services, so some stuff in under-represented and other stuff over-represented in trying to gauge the purchasing power of a currency. In both cases it is a bit short of the ~£5k is you would be starting at today?

Yes a basic rewire today would be about 5 large , maybe even 6 large

 

[telectrix]

i dunno, in 1209 you'd not be able to buy a copy of rhe Magna Carta for £1,000,000.

 

[7029 dave]

Yes a basic rewire today would be about 5 large , maybe even 6 large

I know a contractor in London, and this was about 10 years ago. He would not consider a rewire for less than 10k.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I know a contractor in London, and this was about 10 years ago. He would not consider a rewire for less than 10k.

Im talking VERY BASIC , if we are talking a modern basic 3 bed re-wire all chased in with usb sockets , led downlights and rcbo board you will be looking at £10-12K in my area of Surrey, that would not include any out buildings. I helped a mate on a hug re-wire just before lockdown and that came to about £54,000 but was a massive house with detached garages , 3 bathrooms , 5 bedrooms. It took 2 of us about 8-9 weeks to cpmplete and test