why do most people put you down

[assegayer]

Hi guys,

Recently when im studying at college and on my work days as a mate, i constantly hear the same old moaning from electricians saying 'if i could pick something else back in ur time it sure wouldnt be this' ..i always hear this from them and to be honest it really can discourage you...there nice blokes but when it comes to their job views they seem to look down on themselves... i like electrics, and would jsut like to ask is the trade really that bad, is there no future job prosepcts in it?....u have probably heard this so many times jsut really annyoing me...


but then what else is there to do?,, office jobs are just as **** and boring and offer no 100% job security..

 

[assegayer]

What is industrial exactly. Like what does it involve]

 

[Guest125]

Anything that is not donedtic.

 

[assegayer]

How do u get into that sort of thing after level 3 and 2391

 

[Welchyboy1]

To be honest my experience of industrial work was horrible!

i done my appreticeship and two years afterwards as an electrician, in industrial and heavy commercial work, all ladder rack, trunking, tray, swa, scissor lifts, pyro, permits to work, hi viz jackets, safety officers, clock in, clock out, hard hats and lunch hours

got my app gold card then left

it was good to learn the skills but its really hard work, most of this was in large,hot, dirty, smelly factories or site work, in london or miles from my home, walking miles accross the huge factory floors back to the store room to get half a dozen nuts or bolts then back again, cetainly not something to be doing after your about 40

and the pay was only really standard day rate wages

unless you specialise then i would never like to have stayed, but i never got to that point to be fair

i then went self employed in 2004

i now do about 60/40% domestic and light commercial, have some nice local maintenece contracts and never work more than 15 miles from my house, home by 4 pm most of the time and have my alarm set for 7:30am

ther are loads of domestic chancers out there....loads! Dont get me wrong!

but there is also a MASSIVE shortage of decent, reliable electricians who undertake domestic and light commercial works because of this

i have been manic busy more or less 6 months from when i started

Would never work as an employee for someone else and wouldnt change it for the world!

its not for everyone though and you need a whole lot of different skills to make it work well, a very good buisiness acumen for starters, which disqualifies about 85% of electricians immediately

but once you have a decent client base who pay well, trust and recommend you, its hard to beat

 

[assegayer]

To be honest my experience of industrial work was horrible!

i done my appreticeship and two years afterwards as an electrician, in industrial and heavy commercial work, all ladder rack, trunking, tray, swa, scissor lifts, pyro, permits to work, hi viz jackets, safety officers, clock in, clock out, hard hats and lunch hours

got my app gold card then left

it was good to learn the skills but its really hard work, most of this was in large,hot, dirty, smelly factories or site work, in london or miles from my home, walking miles accross the huge factory floors back to the store room to get half a dozen nuts or bolts then back again, cetainly not something to be doing after your about 40

and the pay was only really standard day rate wages

unless you specialise then i would never like to have stayed, but i never got to that point to be fair

i then went self employed in 2004

i now do about 60/40% domestic and light commercial, have some nice local maintenece contracts and never work more than 15 miles from my house, home by 4 pm most of the time and have my alarm set for 7:30am

ther are loads of domestic chancers out there....loads! Dont get me wrong!

but there is also a MASSIVE shortage of decent, reliable electricians who undertake domestic and light commercial works because of this

i have been manic busy more or less 6 months from when i started

Would never work as an employee for someone else and wouldnt change it for the world!

its not for everyone though and you need a whole lot of different skills to make it work well, a very good buisiness acumen for starters, which disqualifies about 85% of electricians immediately

but once you have a decent client base who pay well, trust and recommend you, its hard to beat

Good on you mate for taking that step, it seems to have paid off a lot i just wanted to ask what do they mean when they say reactive maintenance

 

[Guest125]

How do u get into that sort of thing after level 3 and 2391

If you have not done your NVQ3 then I would recommend cold calling companies to see if you can get a start. Apply for jobs and sell yourself as someone who is confident in their current ability but just needs some assistance moving forward in the industrial sector. Start your NVQ3 as soon as you get a start in this industry and get through it a as quickly as possible.

 

[Welchyboy1]

Reactive maintenance is, when it breakes you get called out to fix it

proactive maintenance is, keeping everything ship shape so it doesnt break as often

 

[Guest125]

To be honest my experience of industrial work was horrible!

i done my appreticeship and two years afterwards as an electrician, in industrial and heavy commercial work, all ladder rack, trunking, tray, swa, scissor lifts, pyro, permits to work, hi viz jackets, safety officers, clock in, clock out, hard hats and lunch hours

got my app gold card then left

it was good to learn the skills but its really hard work, most of this was in large,hot, dirty, smelly factories or site work, in london or miles from my home, walking miles accross the huge factory floors back to the store room to get half a dozen nuts or bolts then back again, cetainly not something to be doing after your about 40

and the pay was only really standard day rate wages

unless you specialise then i would never like to have stayed, but i never got to that point to be fair

i then went self employed in 2004

i now do about 60/40% domestic and light commercial, have some nice local maintenece contracts and never work more than 15 miles from my house, home by 4 pm most of the time and have my alarm set for 7:30am

ther are loads of domestic chancers out there....loads! Dont get me wrong!

but there is also a MASSIVE shortage of decent, reliable electricians who undertake domestic and light commercial works because of this

i have been manic busy more or less 6 months from when i started

Would never work as an employee for someone else and wouldnt change it for the world!

its not for everyone though and you need a whole lot of different skills to make it work well, a very good buisiness acumen for starters, which disqualifies about 85% of electricians immediately

but once you have a decent client base who pay well, trust and recommend you, its hard to beat

I hear you but working for someone else has it's advantages. You get to turn your phone off at 5pm. You get paid 28 days holiday a year. We give out company vans and phones. Fuel cards. Constant training and development. A great workplace atmosphere.

What I would say to anyone who is nervous about working flat out after 40. Stay SE and that will happen. Be the best spark in the comapany you work for and you woukd more likely than not end up in the office managing the new era of electricians.

 

[assegayer]

Reactive maintenance is, when it breakes you get called out to fix it

proactive maintenance is, keeping everything ship shape so it doesnt break as often

ohhh that makes sense now...say a client asked you to put up spotlights how would u even run the cables when the josits get in the way and ceiling is up?

 

[Guest125]

I am getting the feeling we are on the end of a wind up.

 

[assegayer]

I am getting the feeling we are on the end of a wind up.

lool sorry sorry never meant to drag on ill leave that question for another time

 

[andyelectric]

Reactive maintenance is, when it breakes you get called out to fix it

proactive maintenance is, keeping everything ship shape so it doesnt break as often

More commonly the terms used are:

Preventative maintenance : Routine to keep everything shipshape.
Corrective maintenance: Fixing faults.

 

[Darkwood]

Regarding getting into Industrial-
Here's the problem now; the system you train under is so dumbed down due to falling education standards over decades that anyone coming through that route simply doesn't cut the mustard anymore.

Lets go back to how it used to be, you had to have high achievement in maths and physics just to do a bog standard Electrical course and Pass rates were low too, think only 40% of our class made it through. It was tough and because of this the industry knew it and it was reflected in good wages and respect. What you did in them days because you were better educated is work direct into Industrial as an apprentice or join a firm that spanned the different sectors.

Now I started college and was already an A grade in maths and Physics, I left college with some of the highest results you could acheive, my passes in on papers were with distinctions where possible, I suppose I was a bit of a swat at school and did enjoy Maths and Physics hence it wasn't a hard migration for me but don't get me wrong; it was still tough.

In them days when you did college and the advanced C module I think it was for design etc you could virtually walk into any key area of the Industry and just be watched over for a few yrs until experience took over.

As for the system nowadays - well I would love to take on an Apprentice in the near future but education level are at an all time low and the system is so broken up and dumbed down that taking anyone on would be a liability and a waste of my time and effort - trust me I've had about 12 apprentices over the years and witnessed first hand the slow return to neanderthal thinking.

As for answers - well I don't know their is no quick fix for this one, you can't even ship skilled immigration in as this sector has a shortage even outsourcing it, but if you are a cut above the rest in your mental skills best get with a firm that bridges both domestic and industrial and spend the first 5years just picking up experience and any spare time you have at home you cram the internet reviewing old and new technology because for the last 20yrs that what I have to do and to this day I'm still getting home looking for solutions to problems and products to repair old technology, it not a job its a commitment that will eat into a lot of your own time but if you have drive, the balls and consider yourself hungry for knowledge then the Industrial sector will make you a wich wich man.

Just to remind the modern day school leaver the difference here in our education and yours, by the age of 12 we had to be able to recite upto our 15times table without the aid of a calculator and when we left for break the teacher would ask a random sum within that area and if you get it using just your head you got your break, if not you spent your break writing out that particular set of tables.
Just to reflect, we had an apprentice who couldn't even do his 3 times table as an adult who had left school without a calculator, he passed his college and this is when I know the Industry was heading for a disaster and that was 15yrs ago.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Don't be put off, skills of an electrician (and they do vary massively depending on where you are and what you are doing) will always be in demand. I came back into the sector full time 5 years ago, I could either have set up a business managing IT or my first love commercial / industrial electrics. I have since added FGAS (air con) and Gassafe (non domestic) to the companies capability. Some would say its a stretch to do all these but boredom is my biggest fear. I am self employed and have subbed out in my earlier years, even charging £25/hr to build panels, but I don't need to do that anymore and am always busy. Its a great life and ticks all my boxes. My advice would be: Be ambitious, see where demand is, now in my area, its industrial power distribution and plant installations, always have a book at the side of the bed, could be a installation manual for an inverter or commissioning manual for a warm air heater. Keep learning and do not be afraid to take on something for the first time, do lots of research first, talk to manufacturers, they always have a tech line and always do an fantastic job, even if it costs you on that particular job. It all pays off in the long run. As for the body, I,m 52 , back was never any good, knees are OK as there's not much kneeling down on my work but anyway that's what help is for. Good Luck

 

[Guest125]

Here's the problem now; the system you train under is so dumbed down due to falling education standards over decades that anyone coming through that route simply doesn't cut the mustard anymore.

Lets go back to how it used to be, you had to have high achievement in maths and physics just to do a bog standard Electrical course and Pass rates were low too, think only 40% of our class made it through. It was tough and because of this the industry knew it and it was reflected in good wages and respect. What you did in them days because you were better educated is work direct into Industrial as an apprentice or join a firm that spanned the different sectors.

Now I started college and was already an A grade in maths and Physics, I left college with some of the highest results you could acheive, my passes in on papers were with distinctions where possible, I suppose I was a bit of a swat at school and did enjoy Maths and Physics hence it wasn't a hard migration for me but don't get me wrong; it was still tough.

In them days when you did college and the advanced C module I think it was for design etc you could virtually walk into any key area of the Industry and just be watched over for a few yrs until experience took over.

As for the system nowadays - well I would love to take on an Apprentice in the near future but education level are at an all time low and the system is so broken up and dumbed down that taking anyone on would be a liability and a waste of my time and effort - trust me I've had about 12 apprentices over the years and witnessed first hand the slow return to neanderthal thinking.

As for answers - well I don't know their is no quick fix for this one, you can't even ship skilled immigration in as this sector has a shortage even outsourcing it, but if you are a cut above the rest in your mental skills best get with a firm that bridges both domestic and industrial and spend the first 5years just picking up experience and any spare time you have at home you cram the internet reviewing old and new technology because for the last 20yrs that what I have to do and to this day I'm still getting home looking for solutions to problems and products to repair old technology, it not a job its a commitment that will eat into a lot of your own time but if you have drive, the balls and consider yourself hungry for knowledge then the Industrial sector will make you a wich wich man.

Just to remind the modern day school leaver the difference here in our education and yours, by the age of 12 we had to be able to recite upto our 15times table without the aid of a calculator and when we left for break the teacher would ask a random sum within that area and if you get it using just your head you got your break, if not you spent your break writing out that particular set of tables.
Just to reflect, we had an apprentice who couldn't even do his 3 times table as an adult who had left school without a calculator, he passed his college and this is when I know the Industry was heading for a disaster and that was 15yrs ago.

But things have changed. You no longer need to know the answer. You are taught nowadayson how to find the answer. Information is now at the click of a button on your phone so vast knowledge is not always required to be in your head these days.

 

[Silly Sausage]

But things have changed. You no longer need to know the answer. You are taught nowadayson how to find the answer. Information is now at the click of a button on your phone so vast knowledge is not always required to be in your head these days.

So, everytime you want to do something, you have to waste time researching the method/answer?
What a load of bollox. We're talking about basic knowledge here!!!!

 

[Slowhand]

But things have changed. You no longer need to know the answer. You are taught nowadayson how to find the answer. Information is now at the click of a button on your phone so vast knowledge is not always required to be in your head these days.

What happens if your phone has a flat battery or you have no internet access?
You should have the ability to work things out with a pencil and some paper.

 

[Guest125]

What happens if your phone has a flat battery or you have no internet access?
You should have the ability to work things out with a pencil and some paper.

Slightly exxagerating my point a bit but this is reality.

 

[Darkwood]

But things have changed. You no longer need to know the answer. You are taught nowadayson how to find the answer. Information is now at the click of a button on your phone so vast knowledge is not always required to be in your head these days.

Think you are living in a dream world if you think that modern technology is the lazy mans ticket to success, you still have to talk the talk, show the customer your understanding of the problem, give him solutions off the cuff and yes technology has speeded up things in some respect but you still need a core understanding of what your doing, how things work etc
If you think you can ride the wave off the back of technology then your in for a shock, what do you tell customer when a machine is down and he's hovering over your back, turning around and saying I need to surf the Internet to see what this part does will not win you any contracts, you should be turning around and giving him a briefing or whats wrong and your intent to a solution be it temp' or permanent. You won't give any good impressions if he walks up and see's you spending more time on your phone that actually addressing the problem.
I've seen this technology sparks myself after I've had to bail many out of the quagmire, they have a heavy reliance on the internet, don't fully understand what they are doing and any work they do if say repairing a machine is all most certainly illegal and sometimes unsafe... when questioned about the European LV directive or the BS60204 they just open their mouth and say they don't know what I'm on about - they are a dangerous trend that have entered the sector through sheer desperation of companies needing an Engineer but I bet a pound to a penny their PL won't cover them for what they are doing, the work they do is not to regulation and is probably dangerous at that, they are a trend of 'replace it and see' boys who just pick suspect parts, replace them and see if it works without a clue as to what they are doing.

 

[Guest125]

I am not saying it is right or wrong. It has it's place but of course it is also not the answer. It is how things are done now. Like it or not we need to accept that things move on.