Wiring colours

[elektrisien]

Say I am wiring a school. My blue cable is finished, but I still have a lot of brown cable. Can I use the brown iso blue for a ring circuit supplying socket outlets, I will now have 2 browns and 1 earth in the trunking. Is this acceptable or good practice ? I dont think so, but the electricians on my site are doing it.

 

[acat]

BRB identificaton of conductors spring to mind I would say without even looking that you have two choices No and No



Chris

 

[bugsy]

Exactly what planet are you on

 

[Guest123]

That is badgers.....

 

[acat]

OK I was being lazy BRB 514.4.4 page 91 and table 51 on next page choices remain the same No and No


Hope taht helps


Chris

 

[bugsy]

Wicke's are doing a good deal in blue paint at the moment

 

[Notsosmart]

Say I am wiring a school. My blue cable is finished, but I still have a lot of brown cable. Can I use the brown iso blue for a ring circuit supplying socket outlets, I will now have 2 browns and 1 earth in the trunking. Is this acceptable or good practice ? I dont think so, but the electricians on my site are doing it.

Where exactly is this school (so I can be sure that no-one in my family attends), whom is completing the EIC (because I wouldn't), and what 'outfit' are doing the wiring (so I can avoid them)

 

[elektrisien]

Thanks, I was thinking it could not be right. As I am not employed by this company, I will keep my mouth shut. I only noticed when installing the CAT 6 cable on site. Better not to make problems for yourself.

 

[bugsy]

Thanks, I was thinking it could not be right. As I am not employed by this company, I will keep my mouth shut. Better not to make problems for yourself.

No don't keep your mouth shut, ask your employer for a written instruction not to comply with B.S.7671 ( 2008 ) just so as to protect yourself

 

[acat]

Buck passing like you have never seen it before will happen and you will end up carrying the can perhaps you should place a call to health and safety give a duff name if you dont want to be identified.


Chris

 

[AndrewMgan1976]

In the long run, you could end up saving someone's life by reporting it

 

[Notsosmart]

Yep stitch them up; lets face it anyone prepared to cut corners just because they have run out of one colour of single core will definitely have more serious and dangerous bodges elsewhere.
Any spark worth his salt would refuse to undertake such dubious practice so even in these hard pressed times they should be stopping the installation until the correct materials were to hand.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Chances are if its a school, then its a conucil contract therefore a NIC contractor, just phone their tech hotline.....

 

[elektrisien]

Like I say, I am not working for this company. I am only doing the CAT6 cabling for another company. But as I am working towards becoming a electrician myself, I am always checking the wiring whenever I get the chance, too get a little bit more practical experience. To tell the truth I took this company's phone number, I want to phone them for a job. They are doing schools, hotels etc. Really big jobs, and everything electrical including fire alarms etc. It will be excellent experience. They will not employ me after I reported them to Health and Safety. I will check again tomorrow to make sure. Maybe they will pull all the blue cable tomorrow. They are probably just waiting for a delivery. The extra brown cable may be a draw cable ! Who knows?!

 

[Notsosmart]

As stated by Chris you don't have to identify yourself, if they are doing anything dodgy then do you really want to work for them, the wrong sort of experience is just that; wrong.

 

[mogga]

DODGY Barstewards sounds like a one week wonder got all the certs and a golf club membership to take the cooncil guy to

 

[elektrisien]

Let me check again, I may be wrong. I dont want to end up in court for making false complaints !

 

[andrew1]

install it in brown finnish the job. then go back on a revisit pull out the brown and install correct colures.then you will never do it again.

 

[Phil]

if you are right i for one would not want to be a part of an outfit like that. there are two types of experience! good and bad. now the bad. i have seen good and bad and would not want my name anywhere near a bad job, i would ring as said in a previous post and have a chat with someone mr smith or mr jones should be fine for the name and i would not worry about getting a job with them wait until you can find a better firm to work for

 

[GrannySmiff]

Some people eh.

Ran out of blue so just use brown instead classic.

Thats a bodge to far.

 

[Adam W]

I can appreciate the predicament having been in a similar situation myself - a 'budget' outfit I was working for thought they could save a few pennies by wiring 2 3 phase air conditioners using just brown and green/yellow wire instead of buying 5 different colours.
Sure enough one of the units was connected up incorrectly, causing £200 worth of damage.

It's really easy to say "get a job with a decent company" but finding one at the moment is a different matter.

 

[Davey101]

I can appreciate the predicament having been in a similar situation myself - a 'budget' outfit I was working for thought they could save a few pennies by wiring 2 3 phase air conditioners using just brown and green/yellow wire instead of buying 5 different colours.
Sure enough one of the units was connected up incorrectly, causing £200 worth of damage.

It's really easy to say "get a job with a decent company" but finding one at the moment is a different matter.

3 different colours?
Nothing wrong with wiring all 3 phases in brown (sleeved/taped correctly), its just easier to wire it with Br,Bl,Gr.
Gotta say, in nearly 20 years, I've never seen anyone use the wrong colours for live and neutral

 

[jase]

when wiring emergency lighting then would you use 3 core and earth, br, bl gry, and sleeve the grey as neutral?

 

[Adam W]

3 different colours?
Nothing wrong with wiring all 3 phases in brown (sleeved/taped correctly), its just easier to wire it with Br,Bl,Gr.
Gotta say, in nearly 20 years, I've never seen anyone use the wrong colours for live and neutral

Ideally 5 different colours should be used to avoid confusion. I assume what must have happened in this situation was the HVAC guys shortened the cables, cutting the identification off the ends.

Blue is used for switched live all the time, which is fine if it's correctly identified as per BRB. I would say the problem with using brown (sleeved with blue) singles for neutral is it's just needlessly ambiguous - not strictly a contravention, just poor practice.

 

[Davey101]

Ideally 5 different colours should be used to avoid confusion. I assume what must have happened in this situation was the HVAC guys shortened the cables, cutting the identification off the ends.

Blue is used for switched live all the time, which is fine if it's correctly identified as per BRB. I would say the problem with using brown (sleeved with blue) singles for neutral is it's just needlessly ambiguous - not strictly a contravention, just poor practice.

Blue is only used as a switch wire (live) in a muticore cable. You can use whatever colours you want in a multicore, its totally different in singles. You CAN use the 'wrong' colours in singles, but they must be sleeved along their entire length (thus making them the right colours), anything less IS against regs (and very, very rough).

Brown is live, you dont have to mark the ends in black or grey, you can use L1,L2, L3.
For whats it worth, I'd use 3 different colours given the choice, but there is nothing wrong at all with using 3 browns.

 

[Adam W]

anything less IS against regs...

That seems to be implied, and 514.3.2 says it is preferable (relating to cores of a cable), but I can't find a specific reg which states singles must be identified throughout their length.

 

[Davey101]

I have read somewhere that cables must be identified along their length, i.e. not just at the ends, I'm fairly sure that it must have been in the regs, I'm sure its in there somewhere.

 

[Risteard]

I have read somewhere that cables must be identified along their length, i.e. not just at the ends, I'm fairly sure that it must have been in the regs, I'm sure its in there somewhere.

No. The Regulations state "preferably throughout their length". The south of Ireland requires that they are identified throughout their length so perhaps that's what you read somewhere.

 

[andekoch]

I did a PIR the other day where the 2 way switch had been wired in 3 core flex (ie brown, blue and green/ yellow) and the G/Y was used as one of the lives.

Called the NIC and their comment was it was ok as long as sleved Brown at both ends, with the qualifier that being flex the wire was insulated along its whole length (as opposed to the bare earth in a T&E cable) and the house had RCD protection.
Also in this case the cable could not be removed without major disruption and rework.

Made a big note on the PIR and stuck a lable on the CU to warn future electricians.

 

[Davey101]

No. The Regulations state "preferably throughout their length". The south of Ireland requires that they are identified throughout their length so perhaps that's what you read somewhere.

Definatley not had anything to do with Irish electricity, so I must have been refering to 'preferably'.

 

[Davey101]

I did a PIR the other day where the 2 way switch had been wired in 3 core flex (ie brown, blue and green/ yellow) and the G/Y was used as one of the lives.

Called the NIC and their comment was it was ok as long as sleved Brown at both ends, with the qualifier that being flex the wire was insulated along its whole length (as opposed to the bare earth in a T&E cable) and the house had RCD protection.
Also in this case the cable could not be removed without major disruption and rework.

Made a big note on the PIR and stuck a lable on the CU to warn future electricians.

Why did the house have to have RCD protection because a conductor is sleeved a different colour?