would it be legal to....(25 characters)

[FatAlan]

One would argue that the intent was there if you are doing it as a prank whether or not you hit the right address. Same as throwing a stone to break a window , missing and hitting a different one. Best you get round there with a shovel quick

 

[Midwest]

Flippin heck. I've just paid for 4 tonnes of type 1 & sand to be delivered to my house.

 

[telectrix]

sell it to elsparko then.

 

[Midwest]

I'm not quite convinced the depositing of sand on a driveway, would end in a successful prosecution or if it is technically committing the offence, of criminal damage?

If the product is deposited loosely, after removal they would be some element of cleaning, thus damage has been caused.

The idea of depositing the sand therefore, could be construed as criminal damage. However in this case the depositing of the sand is carried out by another, who would be oblivious to the offence; it would be a normal act to deliver sand, but covering a bank with cow pooh would not.

If the driver or sand company, had been informed of the intention of depositing the sand, and carried out the act, then they would have become complicit in the offence.

But the delivering of the sand onto the driveway, by an innocent 3rd party, I'm not quite sure the offence would be complete?

Over to you pirate.

 

[Wilko]

If it was not illegal, why would you not tell the sand company exactly what you were doing, hmm? I think this activity is illegal and easily traced to the person paying for the delivery.

 

[johnduffell]

But the delivering of the sand onto the driveway, by an innocent 3rd party, I'm not quite sure the offence would be complete?

See what you mean, but i reckon they could add aiding and abetting or similar wording onto it.
Otherwise all those people who hire a hitman would be in the clear themselves.
Or if you asked a company to demolish "your" house and keep any valuables they find as payment everyone would be in the clear. (Ps elsparko that's not a suggestion)

 

[johnduffell]

If it was not illegal, why would you not tell the sand company exactly what you were doing, hmm? I think this activity is illegal and easily traced to the person paying for the delivery.

Borrow the target's credit card and mobile phone before hand, the perfect crime! Then just convince them they got the wrong number for the takeaway last night after a few drinks

 

[Midwest]

See what you mean, but i reckon they could add aiding and abetting or similar wording onto it.

The third party must have a criminal mind, to commit aiding or abetting, conspiracy etc. In this case (keeping it simple), the driver is going about his normal daily work of delivering sand, he is unware that this particular delivery is about wrongdoing, he therefore does not have the 'mens rea' to commit an offence, unless he was made aware by elsparko of his intention to commit criminal damage.

 

[Midwest]

If it was not illegal, why would you not tell the sand company exactly what you were doing, hmm? I think this activity is illegal and easily traced to the person paying for the delivery.

I'm not saying the depositing of the sand by elsparko is not some form of offence, like fly tipping for example. Just don't think the offence of criminal damage would fit.

Edit, although fly tipping (just googled it) is the illegal disposal of waste, which I don't think building sand from a supplier. would fit that description?

 

[johnduffell]

There's only one way to settle this. I think a scientific experiment is in order. So elsparko please could you go ahead and let us know what the outcome is.

 

[Wilko]

While not being a legal eagle - my thought is once it's tipped it's now potentially waste. If it was tipped at a building site, some of it would likely end up as waste, but tipped on the street or elsewhere it would probably all be waste. And Our Man would know it would not be for building use, so he would know it would be waste so he's fly tipping. Or commissioning someone to fly tip.

 

[Midwest]

And Our Man would know it would not be for building use, so he would know it would be waste so he's fly tipping. Or commissioning someone to fly tip.

elsparko knows he's up to no good, but the delivery driver who has physically put the sand on the driveway, does not have the mens rea to commit the offence of criminal damage; he's just delivery sand for a customer as far as he is aware, in a normal situation.

If you take the example of spraying pig manure on the bank, the driver would know that this would not be normal situation, and the owners of the property would have not consented to have pig manure sprayed over their property. The driver here might be guilty of an offence of criminal damage.

 

[Midwest]

There's only one way to settle this. I think a scientific experiment is in order. So elsparko please could you go ahead and let us know what the outcome is.

I think he (elsparko) might commit an offence of civil trespass. I've not googled that, but think it would fit better?

Edit, we'll have to await pirate.

 

[johnduffell]

Edit, we'll have to await pirate.

Or failing that elsparkos appearance in court

 

[Midwest]

Or failing that elsparkos appearance in court

I doubt very much it would the inside of a court room. A phone call to the delivery company, would see them grabbing up the sand, to sell onto someone else, making a nice little tidy profit.

 

[elsparko]

he wore the same beanie hat for too long and needs to be taught a lesson

 

[Spoon]

he wore the same beanie hat for too long and needs to be taught a lesson

And I thought it was cause he had a Hair Bun....

 

[elsparko]

And I thought it was cause he had a Hair Bun....

 

[elsparko]

in short i need to pay cash for the sand and have it delivered

 

[Midwest]

In short, life too short, so is Frankie Dettori, as is your time left on this forum, I fear. Still there are others for your amusement