would it be legal to....(25 characters)

[elsparko]

purchase 25 tonnes of sand, delivered to an old college friends house and dumped on their driveway?

its basically giving a gift isnt it? im bringing the beach to them! and technically ive only paid for it and put in the wrong address? whoopsie clumsy me

 

[Spoon]

Would you not get done for 'trespassing' ?
Can't think of anything else at the mo.

Fly tipping???

 

[elsparko]

Would you not get done for 'trespassing' ?
Can't think of anything else at the mo.

Fly tipping???

implied rights of access, it would be the delivery driver that would have to deal with that though?

would you get done for flytipping if you left a brand new fridge at someones door?

 

[snowhead]

Try Criminal Damage.

The damage is not required to be permanent and so defacing property with paint or mud will still count as criminal damage

 

[elsparko]

Try Criminal Damage.

The damage is not required to be permanent and so defacing property with paint or mud will still count as criminal damage

hmmm this puts a spanner in the works

 

[Leesparkykent]

Expensive prank....just shy of £900 of sand

 

[static zap]

Blocked drains ,can get expensive !

 

[PEG]

...There's not a grain of truth in any of this...

 

[littlespark]

I dread to think what these "friends" have done to you in the past if this is your revenge

 

[pirate]

It's the "intent" that matters...trust me, I used to be a lawyer!

 

[JK-Electrical]

purchase 25 tonnes of sand, delivered to an old college friends house and dumped on their driveway?

its basically giving a gift isnt it? im bringing the beach to them! and technically ive only paid for it and put in the wrong address? whoopsie clumsy me

Sounds to me like someone hasn't paid you and this is your revenge.

 

[telectrix]

a ton of cowsh1t from local farmer would be cheaper.

 

[static zap]

a ton of cowsh1t from local farmer would be cheaper.

Just don't pay extra for him to put it in his spreader !
( Eel gert in t right pickle -- Silage is quite smelly as well )

 

[JK-Electrical]

I can see El Sparko in my mind's eye driving that tractor lol

 

[JOURNEYMAN]

purchase 25 tonnes of sand, delivered to an old college friends house and dumped on their driveway?

its basically giving a gift isnt it? im bringing the beach to them! and technically ive only paid for it and put in the wrong address? whoopsie clumsy me

Ahh, those were the days when revenge was fun! 10 ton soft sand and 10 ton gravel to be tipped on the drive or 20 metal dustbins with lids, late night pizza deliveries, manure, taxis at 3am, heavy breathing down the phone, er oops I mean hanging up when someone answers.....

 

[Nigel]

It's the "intent" that matters...trust me, I used to be a lawyer!

Not strictly true. Being reckless also counts towards criminal damage.

 

[pirate]

True, reckless counts, but all the examples given above were those of intent, not recklessness. The absence of mens rea will often excuse the action, but acting with wicked recklessness will, if proven, result in an equal conviction, if not more so...eg, discharge of firearms in a public place.
Fly-tipping should be a hanging offence...discuss.

 

[PEG]

If you were one of the many disappointed customers,who bought a packet of dehydrated water,on ebay...just do what everyone else did,and leave some negative feedback...

 

[Spoon]

If you were one of the many disappointed customers,who bought a packet of dehydrated water,on ebay...just do what everyone else did,and leave some negative feedback...

Had they gone past their 'used by' date???

 

[Dillb]

Come @elsparko I thought you was cleverer than that, expanding foam up their car exhuast if far better and they wont know about it until its too late.

 

[FatAlan]

One would argue that the intent was there if you are doing it as a prank whether or not you hit the right address. Same as throwing a stone to break a window , missing and hitting a different one. Best you get round there with a shovel quick

 

[Midwest]

Flippin heck. I've just paid for 4 tonnes of type 1 & sand to be delivered to my house.

 

[telectrix]

sell it to elsparko then.

 

[Midwest]

I'm not quite convinced the depositing of sand on a driveway, would end in a successful prosecution or if it is technically committing the offence, of criminal damage?

If the product is deposited loosely, after removal they would be some element of cleaning, thus damage has been caused.

The idea of depositing the sand therefore, could be construed as criminal damage. However in this case the depositing of the sand is carried out by another, who would be oblivious to the offence; it would be a normal act to deliver sand, but covering a bank with cow pooh would not.

If the driver or sand company, had been informed of the intention of depositing the sand, and carried out the act, then they would have become complicit in the offence.

But the delivering of the sand onto the driveway, by an innocent 3rd party, I'm not quite sure the offence would be complete?

Over to you pirate.

 

[Wilko]

If it was not illegal, why would you not tell the sand company exactly what you were doing, hmm? I think this activity is illegal and easily traced to the person paying for the delivery.

 

[johnduffell]

But the delivering of the sand onto the driveway, by an innocent 3rd party, I'm not quite sure the offence would be complete?

See what you mean, but i reckon they could add aiding and abetting or similar wording onto it.
Otherwise all those people who hire a hitman would be in the clear themselves.
Or if you asked a company to demolish "your" house and keep any valuables they find as payment everyone would be in the clear. (Ps elsparko that's not a suggestion)

 

[johnduffell]

If it was not illegal, why would you not tell the sand company exactly what you were doing, hmm? I think this activity is illegal and easily traced to the person paying for the delivery.

Borrow the target's credit card and mobile phone before hand, the perfect crime! Then just convince them they got the wrong number for the takeaway last night after a few drinks

 

[Midwest]

See what you mean, but i reckon they could add aiding and abetting or similar wording onto it.

The third party must have a criminal mind, to commit aiding or abetting, conspiracy etc. In this case (keeping it simple), the driver is going about his normal daily work of delivering sand, he is unware that this particular delivery is about wrongdoing, he therefore does not have the 'mens rea' to commit an offence, unless he was made aware by elsparko of his intention to commit criminal damage.

 

[Midwest]

If it was not illegal, why would you not tell the sand company exactly what you were doing, hmm? I think this activity is illegal and easily traced to the person paying for the delivery.

I'm not saying the depositing of the sand by elsparko is not some form of offence, like fly tipping for example. Just don't think the offence of criminal damage would fit.

Edit, although fly tipping (just googled it) is the illegal disposal of waste, which I don't think building sand from a supplier. would fit that description?

 

[johnduffell]

There's only one way to settle this. I think a scientific experiment is in order. So elsparko please could you go ahead and let us know what the outcome is.

 

[Wilko]

While not being a legal eagle - my thought is once it's tipped it's now potentially waste. If it was tipped at a building site, some of it would likely end up as waste, but tipped on the street or elsewhere it would probably all be waste. And Our Man would know it would not be for building use, so he would know it would be waste so he's fly tipping. Or commissioning someone to fly tip.

 

[Midwest]

And Our Man would know it would not be for building use, so he would know it would be waste so he's fly tipping. Or commissioning someone to fly tip.

elsparko knows he's up to no good, but the delivery driver who has physically put the sand on the driveway, does not have the mens rea to commit the offence of criminal damage; he's just delivery sand for a customer as far as he is aware, in a normal situation.

If you take the example of spraying pig manure on the bank, the driver would know that this would not be normal situation, and the owners of the property would have not consented to have pig manure sprayed over their property. The driver here might be guilty of an offence of criminal damage.

 

[Midwest]

There's only one way to settle this. I think a scientific experiment is in order. So elsparko please could you go ahead and let us know what the outcome is.

I think he (elsparko) might commit an offence of civil trespass. I've not googled that, but think it would fit better?

Edit, we'll have to await pirate.

 

[johnduffell]

Edit, we'll have to await pirate.

Or failing that elsparkos appearance in court

 

[Midwest]

Or failing that elsparkos appearance in court

I doubt very much it would the inside of a court room. A phone call to the delivery company, would see them grabbing up the sand, to sell onto someone else, making a nice little tidy profit.

 

[elsparko]

he wore the same beanie hat for too long and needs to be taught a lesson

 

[Spoon]

he wore the same beanie hat for too long and needs to be taught a lesson

And I thought it was cause he had a Hair Bun....

 

[elsparko]

And I thought it was cause he had a Hair Bun....

 

[elsparko]

in short i need to pay cash for the sand and have it delivered

 

[Midwest]

In short, life too short, so is Frankie Dettori, as is your time left on this forum, I fear. Still there are others for your amusement

 

[elsparko]

In short, life too short, so is Frankie Dettori, as is your time left on this forum, I fear. Still there are others for your amusement

huh?

 

[Midwest]

huh?

It means I sometimes like the cut of your jib. Other times you are a complete arse IMO

 

[elsparko]

It means I sometimes like the cut of your jib. Other times you are a complete arse IMO

 

[static zap]

-- Fitting in may be boring / but its what the rest of us do ! (most-the-time) --

 

[davesparks]

Surely this will depend partly on how the person receiving the delivery of sand reacts?
If they accept it as a practical joke or revenge for something they have done then no problem. However if they call the police and wish to press charges it’s a different story.

 

[pirate]

Deliver anything that causes annoyance, grievance or harm to the recipient because they didn't order it/want It...
an offence

if it causes damage, another offence
if it distasteful, ie sexist, sectarian, racist...another offence


any combination of the above...
aggravated offence

 

[Midwest]

Deliver anything that causes annoyance, grievance or harm to the recipient because they didn't order it/want It...
an offence

Great, next time the Jehovah Witness's come knocking, and shrove the Watch Tower through my letterbox, I can get them done for criminal damage

I've guess this case would have to rely on precedents IMO. Googled Henderson and Battley, R v (1984) CA, relates to D damaged land by allowing 30 lorry loads of soil and rubble and mud to be tipped on to the site. D, pretending to act with authority, had been operating the site as a public tip and charging their customers for the rubbish which was tipped. Found guilty.

Still doesn't fit, as in this case, the guilty parties were in control of the lorries, where as elsparko merely paid for the sand to be delivered.

What the hell.

 

[Percyprod]

Can' be that bad or it would be concrete.

 

[Percyprod]

Can't bethat bad or it would be concrete.