Discuss 17th Edition Question in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
Hi mateWelcome to the forum mate.
I'm interested in this one, but I have some questions.
Does he have the current regs book?
Does he know the differences from the 17th and current regs?
Does he work to the current regs?
H&S CHOA (Covering His Own ---)
He will be following the guidelines of company policy or insurance as suggested above.
Rightly or wrongly, he is doing his job by asking for it.
What do visiting contractors know about your companies own procedures?
Is there a problem getting this 17th guy up to speed and sending him on a course to get 18th 2nd amdmt?
...
H&S Manager was, once upon a time, an electrician in new builds, and is convinced you absolutely must have the 18th before you can either open existing CUs or install new circuits
No absolutely no problem with getting him to do the 18th, just wasn't sure if the definitive "No" from H&S was covering fire or because he wanted his mate inH&S CHOA (Covering His Own ---)
He will be following the guidelines of company policy or insurance as suggested above.
Rightly or wrongly, he is doing his job by asking for it.
What do visiting contractors know about your companies own procedures?
Is there a problem getting this 17th guy up to speed and sending him on a course to get 18th 2nd amdmt?
We are, just wanted to be sure it wasn't an excuse to get his mate in who has done work before and charged us through the noseThat's the key thing for me - why doesn't the company put him through the 18th course/exam as appropriate? It's hardly a huge investment.
We are a manufacturing facility, huge growth so as a result the building occasionally has a necessity for separate circuits for machinery or to facilitate some other new needWhy would a maintenance operative be required to install new circuits? What does your company do @PangEng?
As above, your best option is to send them on an 18th AM2 course and verify they (or better still, your company) as all of the necessary 18th edition AM2 books available.We are a manufacturing facility, huge growth so as a result the building occasionally has a necessity for separate circuits for machinery or to facilitate some other new need
This sounds like a possibility.....or because he wanted his mate in
We tend to concentrate on our core roles, get in contractors for this sort of thing. Don't think it makes business sense to employ an 'electrician' for such occasional work.We are a manufacturing facility, huge growth so as a result the building occasionally has a necessity for separate circuits for machinery or to facilitate some other new need
If you already employ someone who is 95% of the way to being so, surely it makes sense just to complete the last step (i.e. formally recognised as 18th AM2)?We tend to concentrate on our core roles, get in contractors for this sort of thing. Don't think it makes business sense to employ an 'electrician' for such occasional work.
We tend to concentrate on our core roles, get in contractors for this sort of thing. Don't think it makes business sense to employ an 'electrician' for such occasional work.
Assuming this is nothing to do with domestic properties, that isn't really relevant.I'm guessing maintenance isn't signed up to a scheme provider
Are you saying commercial premises don't need certifying?Assuming this is nothing to do with domestic properties, that isn't really relevant.
No. I'm saying being a member of a competent persons scheme is not mandatory to perform testing, inspection, and certification.Are you saying commercial premises don't need certifying?
NoAre you saying commercial premises don't need certifying?
We don't know they aren't going to test and certify.Ok I am generalising as either the person conducting the work or the business they are working for are NORMALLY in a scheme to issue a certificate so my question was how is this going to be certified
And again an MFT isn't required but to test a new circuit they would need to use suitable test equipment such as an MFT or separates, it doesn't really matter
My point was how is the person installing the new circuits going to test and certify?
Which is exactly why I asked the question and could be why H&S doesn't want maintenance to do the work for new circuitsWe don't know they aren't going to test and certify.
Ok I am generalising as either the person conducting the work or the business they are working for are NORMALLY in a scheme to issue a certificate so my question was how is this going to be certified
And again an MFT isn't required but to test a new circuit they would need to use suitable test equipment such as an MFT or separates, it doesn't really matter
My point was how is the person installing the new circuits going to test and certify?
If you already employ someone who is 95% of the way to being so, surely it makes sense just to complete the last step (i.e. formally recognised as 18th AM2)?
I guess it might be 'business sense' not to have to pay them any more for having it...
Years ago I worked in the Car Factory in Oxford, British Leyland, as it was then. It's 'maintenance teams' consisted of many different time served trades, in the various fields.It very much depends on the work you want your staff to do.
Some "maintenance" are well qualified completely capable of new installation work and/or detail design and modification of electrical, PLCs etc etc.
Other "maintenance" are really just capable of changing the occasional lamp and cleaning stuff.
And of course anywhere between the two
So absolutely nothing wrong with a capable person doing appropriate work.
Years ago I worked in the Car Factory in Oxford, British Leyland, as it was then. It's 'maintenance teams' consisted of many different time served trades, in the various fields.
Fast forward to today, and I'm a maintenance operative, not in a manufacturing premise, but nevertheless one that has many different services and systems. When I first started there a few years ago, I used my electrical qualifications & skills. But I soon learnt that was not my role. My new colleague mentioned, he 'done the 17th' as well, so he was an electrician and also done some work there. Well, having seen the work, he's not.
Unfortunately, a lot maintenance operatives think they know everything there is to know about the systems and services in their premises. Truth is, we are the 'Jack of all trades, and the master of none'. What we do well though, are the myriad of simple fixes, compliances and keeping the place going.
So send them on an 18th, HVAC, fire alarm, heating, gas, CHP, warden call, BMS's etc etc courses, and do away with the contractors. But have time for nothing else.
If the OP's premise, is like the car factory, you'll employ an electrician from the beginning, perhaps as an apprentice. If not, you'll employ an appropriate contractor.
So I agree with the H&S Manager, but for different reasons.
Years ago I worked in the Car Factory in Oxford, British Leyland, as it was then. It's 'maintenance teams' consisted of many different time served trades, in the various fields.
Fast forward to today, and I'm a maintenance operative, not in a manufacturing premise, but nevertheless one that has many different services and systems. When I first started there a few years ago, I used my electrical qualifications & skills. But I soon learnt that was not my role. My new colleague mentioned, he 'done the 17th' as well, so he was an electrician and also done some work there. Well, having seen the work, he's not.
Unfortunately, a lot maintenance operatives think they know everything there is to know about the systems and services in their premises. Truth is, we are the 'Jack of all trades, and the master of none'. What we do well though, are the myriad of simple fixes, compliances and keeping the place going.
So send them on an 18th, HVAC, fire alarm, heating, gas, CHP, warden call, BMS's etc etc courses, and do away with the contractors. But have time for nothing else.
If the OP's premise, is like the car factory, you'll employ an electrician from the beginning, perhaps as an apprentice. If not, you'll employ an appropriate contractor.
So I agree with the H&S Manager, but for different reasons.
Reply to 17th Edition Question in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
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