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It would appear that an earth is being used as a live conductor?
Seen that done before with SWA as neutral
Discuss 3 core twin and earth cable what colour should you use as the neutral in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net
It would appear that an earth is being used as a live conductor?
In that case, should it be sleeved grey?Seen that done before with SWA as neutral
In that case, should it be sleeved grey?
No it shouldn't be sleeved grey, just me taking the ****.
Not quite Nick. There needs to be a standard so we all know what is going on, that's the idea of having identification in the first place. In a 2 way all are line conductors so there is no ambiguity, whereas in a switched circuit (IE PIR) ther has to be one who is neutral, and thats grey. Using yellow as the CPC and blue as neutral in RYB colours was easy as blue was then recognised as neutral in flexes, and yellow... well that's obvious. When the new colours were introduced the NIC and others were quick to make a standard to enable all to understand the colours, it will make your life easier if you go to a job and there is no sleeving!
Not quite Nick. There needs to be a standard so we all know what is going on, that's the idea of having identification in the first place. In a 2 way all are line conductors so there is no ambiguity, whereas in a switched circuit (IE PIR) ther has to be one who is neutral, and thats grey. Using yellow as the CPC and blue as neutral in RYB colours was easy as blue was then recognised as neutral in flexes, and yellow... well that's obvious. When the new colours were introduced the NIC and others were quick to make a standard to enable all to understand the colours, it will make your life easier if you go to a job and there is no sleeving!
If they really did have their way we would be using black as line on 230. We chose the standard we have now to stop the eurocrats choosing. If you don't like or can't cope with the new colours try buying the old ones. Maybe some people are just too adverse to change.
I've been in the industry 30 yrs and am not averse to change....However this country has a long and distinguished tradition of implementing daft ideas....and harmonising cable colours has to be up there with the daftest.
If they really did have their way we would be using black as line on 230. We chose the standard we have now to stop the eurocrats choosing. If you don't like or can't cope with the new colours try buying the old ones. Maybe some people are just too adverse to change.
A standard is just that, something drawn out that people stick to. If you don't agree with grey as neutral; tough. It was decided a long time ago that was the case and it has to stick. If you continue to be a rebel and create your own system you are creating problems for everyone who works on your installations after you. Just because you have 3 colours in the neutral bar (colour coded with sleeving of course so not to cause confusion) does not make it difficult, it just makes you dim if you don't understand it.
Haven't read all the posts in this thread but have caught the jist of it. Doesnt table 51 state AC power single or three phase circuit neutral colour BLUE?????
I've been in the industry 30 yrs and am not averse to change....However this country has a long and distinguished tradition of implementing daft ideas....and harmonising cable colours has to be up there with the daftest.
Thanks to this piece of genius thinking we now have a situation where blacks and blues could be either phase or neutral...and drab dingy phase colours which are hard to tell apart in low light..and just to let everyone know how silly wev'e been we have to stick silly stickers over every DB pointing out our sillyness.
The UK is an island...there is no overlapping of wiring systems with our european masters...we didnt need to change.
yes steve correct, but we are talking 3c + cpc dommestic cable [no blue] keefy is adament the standard is to use grey but i can find no such official standard,merely that whatever you use is sleeved blue
keefy. where are you taking this standard from? the only thing i can see is that the blue of a three core is now grey, thats true but nowhere does it say that we must use it as the neutral. it is just because we used to use the blue that you think we must now use the grey. if so that is you own decision and not an official standard. as you say i am probally being dim and would be gratefull if you could give me the publication and page no of this standard
The yellow and green is puzzling. Where did it come from? Yellow and green can't be used for anything else for earth/CPC or bonding.
They used the green/yellow in a 3 core flex to feed the extract didn't they? V bad...
As long as the yellow/green in a flex is sleeved at the termination the appropiate live colour and is feeding a class II type of equipment that does not require a CPC then IMO there is nothing wrong with this practice.
It is just the colour Yellow /Green that can not be used for any other purpose other than earthing or bonding, and as long as it is not a single core conductor there is nothing prohibiting the use of a sleeved yellow/green conductor in flex as a live conductor.
Is this regulation 514.4.2 your refering to. as to me there is not a lot of interpretation involved. It clearly states in paragraph one the the colour yellow/ green can not be used other than earthing or bonding.
The second tells us that if it's a single condutor ie a single cable in say a trunking, then you can not terminate this as a live conductor even if you want to over mark this at the termination, so therefore a green/ yellow in a flex, as that is a multi core cable, can be over marked at a termination and can be uses as a live conductor.
Cost is irrelevant really, as the regulations don't consider this, it may not be a practice I particualry adhere to, but in some cases it maybe called for and as it is not prohibited in the regulations it can be done.
Low voltage fans, some CH wiring systems off the top of my head, could even strectch the point to strappers in 2 way lighting, Cost is of no relevance as far as regulations go, you seem to be confusing one with the other.
so, when the makers of 4" bathroom fans make them capable of taking the extra diameter of 4 core flex. i will use 4 core flex. and snip off the redundant cpc core.
Reply to 3 core twin and earth cable what colour should you use as the neutral in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net
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