Are we killing the apprenticeship route into the industry?

[Mark.W]

I don't know if agree with everything in this thread and many other threads I might add about the fast track courses. Some people have drawn the short end of the stick......

I started an apprenticeship in SA when I was 19 and when I was 21 got told to pack my things because the "New Government" decided my place had to be filled by a "Non White". (Not a racist remark, just a fact). I tried my best to get back into the trade, but every job was "Affirmative action", which meant that only non-whites may apply, a bit of inverse racism.

I packed my things and luckily for me my dad is British and I had a British Passport, so I moved to England. I never had a penny to my name and had to take any job that I could find, so soon found myself doing warehouse work etc.

Now after 10 years I am fortunate enough to be able to take time off work and study, as my wife is a veterinarian and earns enough money to support us. I am 31 and doing a fast track course (2330 through OLCI) because it feels as though this is the only option for me.

I am getting tired of people judging others, especially when they do not know their circumstances, I agree that being time served is the best. Unfortunately for me I never got to finish my apprenticeship which was no fault of my own.

So give other a bit of a chance.......

Have yourselves a lovely day

 

[montybaber]

Im very sorry about what happenned mate I hope whatever happens you have success

 

[MikeThePrinter]

brightspark, do you feel the fasttrack course will give the qualifications you need as appose to the 2330 ??
just wondering as i'm looking at my very limited choices!

 

[Mark.W]

Mike

I am doing the 2330, but not over 3 years. I have chosen the OLCI route, lucky enough for me I do have a bit of experience.

Cheers
Mark

 

[bazza2541]

I don't know if agree with everything in this thread and many other threads I might add about the fast track courses. Some people have drawn the short end of the stick......

I started an apprenticeship in SA when I was 19 and when I was 21 got told to pack my things because the "New Government" decided my place had to be filled by a "Non White". (Not a racist remark, just a fact). I tried my best to get back into the trade, but every job was "Affirmative action", which meant that only non-whites may apply, a bit of inverse racism.

I packed my things and luckily for me my dad is British and I had a British Passport, so I moved to England. I never had a penny to my name and had to take any job that I could find, so soon found myself doing warehouse work etc.

Now after 10 years I am fortunate enough to be able to take time off work and study, as my wife is a veterinarian and earns enough money to support us. I am 31 and doing a fast track course (2330 through OLCI) because it feels as though this is the only option for me.

I am getting tired of people judging others, especially when they do not know their circumstances, I agree that being time served is the best. Unfortunately for me I never got to finish my apprenticeship which was no fault of my own.

So give other a bit of a chance.......

Have yourselves a lovely day

And after you spend all this money and can't get a job..................?

 

[Mark.W]

No you're right I do not work full time, I took a voluntary redundancy, I do however work as a sparks mate every other week for a guy called Craig Wadeson in Hamshire, alongside my course. Just put the shoe on the other foot mate...........

Best of luck to you!!

 

[montybaber]

I have a trade and a job, you have neither. You come on here crying about poor you being exiled with no trade and no prospects. Wheres the boohoo?
You have now killed this thread. I will post on it no more. I really hope it gets locked before somone says something that can't be undone.
Good luck to you in whatever comes your way.

If you post on it no more im sure it wont be locked

 

[saveloy]

Bazza. I think you have some valid points. I am not in favour of fast track courses for most people as a quick way into the industry. However you have a very blinkered view in the way that you think anyone who has not completed an apprenticeship and served their time has no place in the industry.

Before I put myself through college I employed a couple of time served electricians at one time or another.
I can tell you that the work I produce now craps on theirs from a great height. The last one I used ended up leaving cable and boxes for me to first fix on every job! On his final job I ran 10mm cable from downstairs up to the loft and into the bathroom. He then came along wired it up and charged me £200 for the privellige.

I never once saw him clip a cable or fix a junction box. He didn't have any test equipment. I could go on.

I got fed up with the quality of work from these so called time served tradesmen, thats why I retrained.
Now whilst you are stereo-typing everyone who hasn't served an apprenticeship as not being worthy of being an electrician, I won't. There a are good and bad in this trade and, that has just as much to do with how you apply your knowledge and experience, as it does with how long you have served.

I was at college with quite a few apprentices of a young age and quite frankly most of them frightened me. There were kids who had already done a year or two with their employers and they really couldn't give a ----. College was a day off for them. They used to come and ask us older students about various things. Whereas because we had paid for the course out of our own pockets, we applied ourselves so as to get the most out of the course.

You seem to me to want some kind of protectionism forced into the industry just to protect "the old boys network" just because they served their time in a traditional way. Well sorry but it aint gonna happen. Apprenticeships are dying out. Imo that is a disgusting state of affairs, but as someone else pointed out the older generation will have to be replaced somehow.

 

[montybaber]

So with all that has been said in mind, what do we do about this?

How can the industry sort this out, can a mature student learn enough at college to become classed as a qualified electrician? can the 2330 be amended so that this is achievable and open to all ages? should the shorter courses being offered by training centres be offered by colleges?

All I know is (not wanting to sound rude) a few questions I have read on here of late have not given me confidence that everybody going it alone is competent.

In my eyes competency is a good word, you can have many qualifications and be incompetent and have none and be competent, how do we ensure competency?

 

[saveloy]

So with all that has been said in mind, what do we do about this?

How can the industry sort this out, can a mature student learn enough at college to become classed as a qualified electrician? can the 2330 be amended so that this is achievable and open to all ages? should the shorter courses being offered by training centres be offered by colleges?

All I know is (not wanting to sound rude) a few questions I have read on here of late have not given me confidence that everybody going it alone is competent.

In my eyes competency is a good word, you can have many qualifications and be incompetent and have none and be competent, how do we ensure competency?

Good points Monty. I don't know the answers. What I would say is that in the abscence of apprenticeships the mish mash of available schemes is not doing anyone any favours. Neither the Genaral public or wannabe electricians. The main problem I think everyone is agreed on is that no-one can ever hope to be a "competant " electrician on theory and exams alone. You NEED to have site experience, and with work drying up all over the place, not many are going to get the necessary on site experience.

IMO (and I stress MY opinion) having been through college, and done the lot, I don't think that short courses are worth the paper they are written on for someone starting from scratch. They have their place as a means for a time served experienced electrician to gain the necessary paper work required, but that is as far as it goes.

 

[Doomed]

I have just finished the second year of my 2330, my current employer for whom I do general maintenance is good enough to give me paid day release to attend college. (They are hoping that I will save them money by doing electrics for them as well as maintenance in the future - not until I feel confident though!).
I am slowly doing my NVQ3 at the same time, working alongside a local sparky on my days off, as and when the wife will let me, and helping out any sparkys who do jobs where I work.
I am fairly middle aged, and I know it when I come accross the apprentices at college. But I am also alot more dedicated and serious then most of these apprentices, most of whom are working for well known companies in the area. All the mature candidates far outstrip the apprentices in electrical theory knowledge, and during the year 2 practicals only one mature person needed a resit compared with over a third of the apprentices.
This does make me question the quality and/or motivation of a fresh apprentice compared with a more mature trainee who is putting themselves through training to better themselves.
I am not saying that all the youngsters are of poor quality, far from it. What I am saying is you can't generalise, some new apprentices are poor, and some retraining adults are good (like me ).
What is important is that we are open and willing to help and give advice to those willing to learn.

 

[montybaber]

Agreed..IMO as all these different courses are confusing everybody we need a standard training requirement avaliable at college (2330 but avaliable to everybody) either day release or evenings and at a sensible cost.

The experience bit or on site training is the toughy

 

[ecclescake]

Fair point but what about in ten years the young lads will be better than you thats speaking from my experience. Remember the old saying you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

 

[montybaber]

im sorry i dont understand your point (no offence)

 

[saveloy]

Fair point but what about in ten years the young lads will be better than you thats speaking from my experience. Remember the old saying you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

Depends on how receptive to new proudcts ideas concepts etc you are. I am always looking to build up my knowledge base and expand my experience.
Besides if the young lads I saw on my courses are anything to go by, I'll be collecting my pension before I have anything to worry about.

 

[Doomed]

Remember the old saying you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

Which is piffle, people stop learning when they can't be bothered anymore or its too much effort, at which point they should retire of get a job at B&Q.
As I say, I have been working along side some long term spakies, and they are very set in thier ways, and when there is a change, such as the introduction of the 17th edition they fail to take the time to learn to understand the changes and the reasons behind them.

On old boy has started putting RCD's on everything because of the 17th - even for a length of surface mounted SWA in a commercial premises

Not everyone is the same, even if experiance has shown you that all BMW series 5 drivers make money from dealing in illicent substances or all irsh brickies like a drink on a friday evening it is not a fact and you MUST remain open to prejudices formed from your own experiance.

Note: attempt at light humour has been made during the writing of this post, no offence is meant to anyone, especially old people working at B&Q

 

[saveloy]

Which is piffle, people stop learning when they can't be bothered anymore or its too much effort, at which point they should retire of get a job at B&Q.
As I say, I have been working along side some long term spakies, and they are very set in thier ways, and when there is a change, such as the introduction of the 17th edition they fail to take the time to learn to understand the changes and the reasons behind them.

On old boy has started putting RCD's on everything because of the 17th - even for a length of surface mounted SWA in a commercial premises

Not everyone is the same, even if experiance has shown you that all BMW series 5 drivers make money from dealing in illicent substances or all irsh brickies like a drink on a friday evening it is not a fact and you MUST remain open to prejudices formed from your own experiance.

Note: attempt at light humour has been made during the writing of this post, no offence is meant to anyone, especially old people working at B&Q

+1. Excellent post.

 

[montybaber]

Anyone is capable of bettering themselves no matter their age, I have just completed my HNC at 29 and I plan OU very soon...it was very hard going back to studying after10 years but I managed

 

[Doomed]

Anyone is capable of bettering themselves no matter their age, I have just completed my HNC at 29 and I plan OU very soon...it was very hard going back to studying after10 years but I managed

My sister started her OU in her mid thirties, along with a part time job and raising a young family.

Now almost 15 years down the line she has a degree and a very well paid job from doing the OU course.

Go for it mate!

 

[montybaber]

thanks

I know it will be tough but I think I can use some points from my HNC towards it, personally I enjoy learning and get bored very easily if not challenged

Thats why I dont agree with old dog new tricks