Are we killing the apprenticeship route into the industry?

[electricAl]

Don't worry about it. When the upturn comes there will be thousands of brand new workers in all the trades fresh from Uni or training centers all ready to take up their new jobs wearing their designer gear and with their brand new screwdriver sets and plier sets from Poundworld. Gawd help us.

Spoken tongue-in-cheek, i know, but your prediction is uncomfortably close to the truth i fear...

 

[Mac]

Don't worry about it. When the upturn comes there will be thousands of brand new workers in all the trades fresh from Uni or training centers all ready to take up their new jobs wearing their designer gear and with their brand new screwdriver sets and plier sets from Poundworld. Gawd help us.

That was spot on,and you hit the nail right on the head.

 

[boatnik1]

And when they see that they might have to get their hands dirty they'll quickly move sideways into the drug trade or somesuch to get the money to set up their own sparking business and employ all us old codgers who can do the work while they drive around their old Uni mates to have business lunches and work out how they can fleece the public/their workers and suppliers before going bankrupt with a suitable nestegg in the Bahamas. (As if they would)

 

[Doomed]

I do feel somewhat sorry for the present generation of Uni students. It is no longer a prestigious thing to do, something only achievable by people with brains, instead of the 1 in 50 people going to Uni it is now 1 in 3.

The government has devalued the degree system and yet still let students believe it is the path to wealth and fortune it used to be.

I have to deal with alot of students doing part time work while they are at Uni, and in the last 20 years the standard has seriously declined.

But this is an issue for another thread, probably another forum infact

There are just too many people living on this island of ours now.

 

[gazc]

The way this game is going there wont be any apprenticeships its becoming like the university system where you have to pay for your own training the trouble is training out of books dosn`t prepare you for what its really like. working with your hands cant be learnt out of books.
Iv been a electrician for 20 years now and i cant believe the standard of some of the new guys coming into the game in the old days you worked as an apprentice and a spark checked your work. give these guys a set of drawings and take a look at the bafflement in their faces. I feel sorry for them spending all that money trying to better themselves and having to work for nothing and i mean nothing just to try and get some experience there must be some really disillusioned fast track sparks out there at the min god knows i becoming really disillussioned with the whole game as well

 

[colinhills]

i do agree with what you are saying. i have taken one of these train crouses and payed out 5 grand + but still got no experince in the pratical side and am looking hard but none about. its is as you say i should have 17th reg and part p and testing by end of aug. i have part p now and ecs exam on 13 july but have no experince of wiring on more than 2 times so no good i think and i think these crouse should do more of this and how it put wiring into a aready wired place. but hay thats just me, even offering to work of free is not getting me anywhere and i still cannot belive that people would not want some to help them in a job for free and means job could be finished quicker means more money as now can do more jobs. i must be wrong but hay

 

[Spudnik]

..... even offering to work of free is not getting me anywhere and i still cannot belive that people would not want some to help them in a job for free and means job could be finished quicker means more money as now can do more jobs. i must be wrong but hay

In a way you are correct, however, what you must also realise is that taking on even free labour can cost a contractor in time as he will need to check up on what you have done and also keep one eye on you whilst you are working.

 

[Mac]

In a way you are correct, however, what you must also realise is that taking on even free labour can cost a contractor in time as he will need to check up on what you have done and also keep one eye on you whilst you are working.

Sorry mate,isn't that part of the learning process.Sounds good to me

 

[Mikeymike77]

I've sent of 41 CV's to employers and no luck

The only thing I got was a part time job doing small jobs for a semi retired electrican which helps alittle because he teachs me abit theory so it's not all bad

I'll be doing C & G lvl 2 in sep but I need an apprenticeship to gain experience which will get me an NVQ lvl 2

 

[Spudnik]

Sorry mate,isn't that part of the learning process.Sounds good to me

Indeed it is, but i am generalising.

 

[boatnik1]

The part that's frequently forgotten about is that a spark taking on an apprentice, even a freebee worker increases the liability on the insurance and leaves the spark liable also to include employers liability cover just in the event the new start gets hurt either through his own fault or by accident, or just because the new start feels like a holiday and the knowledge that ambulance chaser lawyers will assist them every way they can.

 

[adam.h]

I got suckered into one of those fast track courses, mainly because my local college had closed down. I really do wish I had done it at a college at least but there is so many things you dont learn unless your actually working. I'm slowly trying to get my experience up until I have enough so that I can finally make the change over. But its hard at the moment. Even doing work for free seems to be hard to get.

 

[leonard290]

absolutely.what ***** me of is these EU directives regards new regs etc.count up the money that all electricians have to pay city & guilds.millions.guess where goes. yep Brussells

 

[Marty48]

This is a big problem in the industry. You have to pass a test to drive a car ,practise medicine, etc.
All you have as a minimum skill level in electrical trade is "must be competent" in some regs book. Had long running discussion with SHAKEY on this point. There should be a minimum of C+G exam passed before you can play with electrics. WHAT YOU GUYS THINK???

 

[boatnik1]

This is a big problem in the industry. You have to pass a test to drive a car ,practise medicine, etc.
All you have as a minimum skill level in electrical trade is "must be competent" in some regs book. Had long running discussion with SHAKEY on this point. There should be a minimum of C+G exam passed before you can play with electrics. WHAT YOU GUYS THINK???

What you argue for is precisely what is wrong and destroying the trade.
There are those who have a whole bunch of paper qualifications who shouldn't be allowed to hold a screwdriver let alone use one, and these are the same people who with their "qualifications" get their ticket to practice and have'nt a clue what practical work is about, and if they live to be 100 will never be competent.

Practical work should take precidence with the knowledge based qualifications taking a poor second place. Practical experience is of much more value as methods and their reasons should be picked up from your instructor/ experienced spark. Should a practical spark need to work out calcs. etc then this knowledge can be aquired as and when required from the various manuals but practice can only be found with experience and no matter what qualifications you have you should'nt be playing with electric until the practical end is sorted.

If you know of a book or qualification that provides you with the practical experience that five years experience on the tools gives you I would be pleased to know of it.

 

[guitargraham]

All sounds like "sour grapes to me" dont forget you can take a week fast pass to get your driving licence? then be allowed out on to the highways and motorways!

I know plenty of timed served tradesmen who are "COWBOYS" and only after a fast buck, they sit in the pub gloating.
I have a garage full of tools tools inclucing screwdrivers and i know how to use every 1 of them, and if you saw my house you'd agree.

Of the people i have meet on my training the younger ones want to work for a company and feel the only to get there is by doing this and it makes them stand out from the ones who want the company to pay to train them.

The older ones seem to want to add to what they already do and others like myself who want to work for them selves and offer ecletrics as part of the service.

Things like this happen in all walks of life but its the people who pay the cowboys who are to blame, because they want to save money.

I,ve worked in the retail motor industry for the passed 23 years and the amount of people who have bought a car/van off the street or autotrader to save a few quid and then find out its stolen/written off/or still on HP is unbelievable.

So lay off the people who want to better themselves and blame the muppets trying to save money by using COWBOYS.

Sorry for the rant, but i am studying hard to get to where i want to be.

Regards

Graham

 

[Risteard]

If you know of a qualification that provides you with the practical experience that five years experience on the tools gives you I would be pleased to know of it.

Surely the whole point of the NVQ (incorporating the AM2 as well) is to prove practical experience.

 

[montybaber]

I think we all know that half of the NVQ is jackanory, I was at college last year with lads trying to complete their NVQ and it was laughable the amount of lying that goes on both from the students and from the college staff!

Im not against NVQs as such but I dont think they prove competency on their own, they serve a purpose to give a practical assessment of students although this should be along with site experience also.

With no apprenticeship/work experience full time then practical competency is hard to measure, when i was apprentice regular meetings was held with my engineers and i was assessed continually all this was logged and I was deemed competent on completion of set criteria set out by my company and my particular apprenticeship ( i was also sent on work placements in different fields to learn a range of skills)

Although I agree practical experience is important I feel qualifications are vital to show an individuals knowledge and commitment to their trade, Its all very well saying that I have no certs but I can wire a generic house quicker than any sparx i know but put them out of their comfort zone ie industrial fault/installation etc then the qualified will blow him away ( in my experience I should add) this industry is so diverse that a range of knowledge is required to become a well rounded electrician, lets face it wiring houses day in day out covers little of what we spent years learning about at college...i still like the fact i learnt it though!

Sorry for the essay glad this thread is still going and its interesting to read, it has remained good natured to a degree and please remember as the originator the thread was expressing my concerns that opertunities to get a traditional route into the industry were getting sparse and my dismay at the poor sods having to pay extorsionate fees to attend courses with little chance of a career at the end

 

[gazghost]

im new on here and just starting my level 3 2330 on day release. I lost my mature trainee job as the credit crunch hit. Ive managed to find part time work and just paid 700 quid for my final year. that all said and done must plod on. Whats really got my goat though is that ive just been shown an advert that reckons for just 800 quid you can do a four day course to become a domestic installer. I know my qualification covers industrial aswell and these di`s will would never get a job in that side of things. but how can the nic/city and guilds etc justify that they`re trying to weed out cowboys when as far as i can see they are the very ones promoting them ! < rant over >

 

[thepurple1]

We have 6 apprentices in our company in different years there are only 2 that are any good.
The time keeping is poor attendance at college is also poor. We also have a couple of older trainees that have put themselves through college, There attitude is much better and a more mature outlook

 

[Roggi]

Hey Your dead right fella,

I've got into this industry twice and both times in the recession how unlucky can one guy be boo hoo. Started with the old C&G 236 But the reality is i struggled like hell to get through my 2330 and 17th Edition NVQ 3 later on.
Why well not because it was difficult but because of not having enough of the practical side which is needed , so to combat this i got into data cabling and then i managed to get site work but that was as a sub contractor which again you never know what work you'll get . At least with an apprenticeship you get the diversity of work..
In all ive done about four years onsite and many times i wanted to quit whilst i was going to college working 4 days a week and one day at college all because i couldn't do night school that would of killed me , but whilst studies went on a friend of mine did a two week course as a domestic installer and calls himself an electrician but a little while ago he reversed the polarity at the main incomer and nearly burnt down a house . ---- !
The thing is so true i had an argument with my college whom i accused of just money making and they are and all these training centres . It seems these fat cats sit there and put stuff out in the media and to the ordinary guy in the street, buys into this and thinks yeah i'll get into IT or Electrics or Plumbing don't be fooled its good to have a trade but my god the hoops we have to jump through just to work the money outlay just does not seem worth it. You need practical experience people thats how you learn accompanied by the theory.
Now who's for making building a training centre ?

Hi all.

It's these "for profit" training centers that are ruining the industry IMO. Under an apprenticeship you are not allowed to progress further than level 2 without having an employer as the site experience is again IMO most important.

These chaps coming off the back of a training center course simply do not have the practical know how that experience brings to get on and be successful in the industry from the outset, through no fault of their own I may add. With no jobs available to them due to the state of the country at the mo what are they to do.....start their own business charging peanuts and spoil the trade even more.

You only have to look at some of the questions posted on here by "qualified sparks" to realise some of these courses dont teach a damn thing.

I really find it difficult to understand why people see getting into the electrical industry at this present time as a sure fire way of making a fortune as there is simply no work out there, these training centers are making it all up just to relieve you of your hard earned £5G

Now I'm not apologising for anything I've just said as I feel very strongly about this issue and genuinely believe that these "courses" are making a mockery of the industry and will ultimately be it's greatest downfall

There are no doubt exceptions to this but I have yet to see a good one.

Before anyone spouts off about me being stuck in my ways and past it and eliteist, I'm only 27 and yes I am a time served spark.

Regards

Lenny.

 

[EWebster]

I totally agree, I'm not looking for an argument with anyone, it's not my way. But people must understand that the time served guy has spent a minimum of 4 years gaining his qulifications and experience to be classed as a Qualified Electrician, and for some training centre to claim they can do the same in 12 weeks usually without the main 2360, 2330 course is simply an insult.

You've hit the nail on the head there Monty, as regards the training centres making hay while the sun shines, my question is why isn't the OPDM or DWP doing something about it.

12 weeks? You can get domestic installer in 13 days, and I'm ashamed to say I'm living proof!

The difference with me is I was a ships electrician 20 odd years ago, but just went back to it. I was terrified by the amount of incompetence on the courses though.

Nothing prepares you for work in the real world than working in the real world. Apprenticeships definitely are a good route and should be promoted. I have an HND and a BSc, and after 7 years at university, I KNOW that nothing beats hands on experience. Bring back YTS! :-D

 

[gazghost]

I think that is largely the case. At tek when I was 16 I was allways the class idiot. Its not until you get a mortgage etc and have worked in dead end jobs that you really start to appreciate the need for qualifications, just hope the industry picks up again so I havent put all this time and money in for nothing.


The only real comfort in training the 2330 3 yr route is that at least no real electric company will ever take these short course (sparkies) seriously.There is no way they will ever get a job as a maintenance sparkie or understand 3 phase. If they are proper qualifications why don`t other countries except them for emmigration ? When Im fully qualified I have no intentions of working in domestic and being associated with these liabilitys. Leave em to burn the houses down and let the Niceic bite themselves on the arse.

 

[GirlRacerRed]

Speaking from an employers point of view, over the next 5 years or so, I will be losing about 10% of my maintenance workforce which includes electricians due to retirement. The company I work for haven't had to take on apprentices for so long, that we'd almost forgotten what to do. We are now linked in with a local college in our area and we are keen to provide meaningful apprenticeships that will lead to long term work for newly qualified apprentices.

The only problem we have faced is that the apprenticeships are now different to what some of our older workforce worked towards 20-30 years ago. It's a learning curve all round in the Maintenance team now!

I think what went wrong for UK apprenticeships and vocational training in general was Labour's pledge to get 50% of all school and college leavers into university, to train the leaders of tomorrow. But what about all the skilled trades that we still need? Like electricians, plumbers, gas fitters, tilers, mechanics etc?

I don't regret going to university, but I do regret not having the opportunity to do something that was a mix of both academic and hands-on/vocational studying between the ages 14-20.

I still need apprentices in the next few years, and if there isn't an apprenticeship scheme, I'm not sure we'd know where to start in order to train somebody to the required standard and qualification.

GRR

 

[kung]

I think that is largely the case. At tek when I was 16 I was allways the class idiot. Its not until you get a mortgage etc and have worked in dead end jobs that you really start to appreciate the need for qualifications, just hope the industry picks up again so I havent put all this time and money in for nothing.


The only real comfort in training the 2330 3 yr route is that at least no real electric company will ever take these short course (sparkies) seriously.There is no way they will ever get a job as a maintenance sparkie or understand 3 phase. If they are proper qualifications why don`t other countries except them for emmigration ? When Im fully qualified I have no intentions of working in domestic and being associated with these liabilitys. Leave em to burn the houses down and let the Niceic bite themselves on the arse.

Just for your record im fully qualified and worked in the ind for 20yrs I now am self employed after paying the £500 ransom and also domestic installer ! I work in domestics through choice and because i have 2 autistic children one also ADHD and one ASPERGERS SYNDROME ! dont paint every domestic installer with the same brush ! and get your facts right first !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIABILITY ? Would love to take you along to a substation fault ! lost neutral ? and YES i do understand 100% multi phase !

 

[UNG]

The quick route to being a spark started 30 years ago with the government skill centres and various tinkering with the apprentice training scheme over the years has got us to where we are today.
This country has a skills shortage because of the university educated leaders and there balmy ideas, we need to go back to the system where the leaders came from within the industry.
The way this industry is going we are going to be swamped with costly training courses and assessments, not to mention the costs everytime the regs change and the associated OSG and guidance notes.
In my opinion this industry went on the downward slide when the NVQ was introduced. It is about time we learned some lessons from the gas industry and got every spark licenced Corgi / gas safe style we wouldn't have to worry about this Part P rip off then

 

[gazghost]

Just for your record im fully qualified and worked in the ind for 20yrs I now am self employed after paying the £500 ransom and also domestic installer ! I work in domestics through choice and because i have 2 autistic children one also ADHD and one ASPERGERS SYNDROME ! dont paint every domestic installer with the same brush ! and get your facts right first !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIABILITY ? Would love to take you along to a substation fault ! lost neutral ? and YES i do understand 100% multi phase !

I didnt mean every di is a liability , sory if that is how it came across. I too would have to enter the di scheme if i intended to work in domestic. I know many (proper) sparkies who too have di on their vans. Im sure you could blind me with science,but it is the short track, no experience or previous qualifications wollys that anoy me. I will have spent three years gaining my qualifications and had a bloke telling me the other day that his 4 week domestic installer course meant he is as qualified as me and in the same breath telling me that he had no idea on 3 phase. I just wish there was some way of being seperated from the same pot as these types.

 

[kung]

It is about time we learned some lessons from the gas industry and got every spark licenced Corgi / gas safe style we wouldn't have to worry about this Part P rip off then

Agree ! i heard of a DI that was assessed and passed within 45 mins ! yes 45 mins CU at his yard and over the road for a loft light ! 45 mins later he passed ! wish all my quals and time were that easy ! its no wonder it has the rep it has !
As ive said on another post how many have heard of corgi ? gas safe ? NOW how many know who NICEIC/NAPIT/ELECSA are ? NOW how many customers know about PART P let alown what certs they get ! the whole things ONLY about money nothing more nothing less !

I didnt mean every di is a liability , sory if that is how it came across. I too would have to enter the di scheme if i intended to work in domestic. I know many (proper) sparkies who too have di on their vans. Im sure you could blind me with science,but it is the short track, no experience or previous qualifications wollys that anoy me. I will have spent three years gaining my qualifications and had a bloke telling me the other day that his 4 week domestic installer course meant he is as qualified as me and in the same breath telling me that he had no idea on 3 phase. I just wish there was some way of being seperated from the same pot as these types.

You hit the nail on the head theres 3 types of electrical worker !
1 Domestic installer
2 Sparks
3 DIY Dan yehaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr
1 is supposed to stamp out 3 but thats a laugh lets face it its NOT working !
2 is time served and its an insult making them do a domestic installer assessment !

The trouble is theres lots a householder can do inc add a socket or light with no knowledge of loading etc etc you cant work on gas pipes etc ONLY gas safe/corgi personel ! it should be the same with electrics all bar replace broken socket etc only we know who can do what the average householder doesnt have a clue ! SOME SCHEME !

 

[gazghost]

again sory if i affended mr kun

 

[kung]

again sory if i affended mr kun

No worries buddy just having a mad 5mins im ok now back on the med and dont worry you can blind that guy with your shiney new jib gold card when you get it !
Regards
Kung.

 

[gazghost]

No worries buddy just having a mad 5mins im ok now back on the med and dont worry you can blind that guy with your shiney new jib gold card when you get it !
Regards
Kung.

(hopefully cheers)

 

[High Tower]

Some of what has been said i wholeheartedly agree with, however a lot of it just makes me angry.

There is a lot to be said for structured training i really do agree, however the obsession that unless you are a time served sparks from the age of 16 then you shouldnt be a spark at all is nothing short of rediculous.

I will conceed that the majority of people i have come across on this forum have been the picture of consumate pros!. knowlegable, good fun, good sense of humour and good at their jobs, however most of the "time served sparks" i have come across dont live up to the same ilk.

the fact that our members come on here show that they have passion and dedication.

to be fair, im sick of time seved sparks in general, and im even more sick of sorting out their mess and doing their jobs properly. The old school seem incapable of working more than about 7 hrs a day, they are dead against change, and seem incapable of embracing anything. i find them cliquey, and impossible, and im sure they are difficult just for the sake of it. in no way flexible or accomodating.

is this what people who dont do apprentaships are missing out on??? I must again stress that the majority of present company accepted and not tarred with this brush!

I have seen more poor workmanship, corner cutting and dangerous installations at the hands of time served sparks than anything else.

how ever, so called fast trak sparks are ludicrous and shouldnt be allowed to practice with such limited knowlege.

I to support a corgi style scheme,

I think the suggestion that the more mature improver would not have the attitude or personality to cope on site is rediculous as well, I was a chef for 14 years and i worked in some of the best and toughest kitchens in britain, for this reason i have a better sense of humour, better communication skills and better tolerance than the majority of the grumpy difficult sparks i have come across.

i have a talent for electrics, i have a higher than average understanding and intelligence level, i am more than capable for the things i do. for me to qualify as a sparks i have had to go back to college at 28, i think i am a 100 times better candidate and student than my 17 year old counterparts, my life has consisted of working 75 hr weeks in a kitchen, off to college on my monday off to do my 2330, and my one remaining rest day is spent on site trying to get some site experience. i am more than competent to do house re-wires but because of the current climate i am also still working my socks off in a kitchen.

I can work 16 hour shifts with out to much problem, and will always find a way to get the job done, unlike a lot of sparks who knock of at 4.30 regardless,

i dont see what when i will soon have my full 2330, 2391, 2382, part p, pat testing and PIR i am any less entitled to work as a sparky than someone who has served their time, and the constant whining that the work should be for the time served sparks and not people like me is wrong,

As i have said i really rate a lot of the sparks on here but the attitude of some really makes me irate!

I have worked twice as hard as most to enable me to realise my ambition to be a sparks and i will continue to work twice as hard. for this reason i will leave a lot of sparks in my wake.

 

[megaman83]

as soon as i read the first sentence of your post i could see were this was going, good luck at the domestic work then cause thats all you'll get, no agencies will take on adult trainee, labourer or what ever else way you can manage to call yourselves sparks, also forget oil and gas work or anything specialised unless you came from a previous electrical/electronic background, good luck with immigration proving to them your a spark if you wanted to go to greener pastures, im glad NI hasnt embraced these nonsense courses, would you be happy in hospital if a nurse had all the paper work to say she was a nurse but hadnt dressed a bandage before and was walking your way??? wise up

 

[Risteard]

We don't have Part P in the Six Counties at this stage, though. I suspect that's the real difference. Whilst I'm in favour of regulation it seems to have encouraged these types of courses.

 

[megaman83]

it is crazy to let someone into your house to do electrical work after doing a six week course, i mean the course must be rubbish when you have guys willing to work for free to get EXPERIENCE, AFTER doing the course, that alone says it all! self certifing should be something a car washer does , not an electrician! Rant over

 

[High Tower]

it is crazy to let someone into your house to do electrical work after doing a six week course, i mean the course must be rubbish when you have guys willing to work for free to get EXPERIENCE, AFTER doing the course, that alone says it all! self certifing should be something a car washer does , not an electrician! Rant over

I assume you also include those of us in this that have bust their balls for 3 years completing the 2330 at college as well as doing theire 2382 and 2391??

 

[megaman83]

I assume you also include those of us in this that have bust their balls for 3 years completing the 2330 at college as well as doing theire 2382 and 2391??

well if you have completed 3 years at tech fair play too you, and busted your balls did i hear you say?

so your now admitting it was hard?

yep? 16years old and i did all those exams, NVQs, assessments , log books the lot!

hard enough i agree but i passed them as a school leaver and the following years doing my apprenticeship, and you know why it was easy for me, because i had all the drive and motivation you say that you have!

 

[High Tower]

well if you have completed 3 years at tech fair play too you, and busted your balls did i hear you say?

so your now admitting it was hard?

yep? 16years old and i did all those exams, NVQs, assessments , log books the lot!

hard enough i agree but i passed them as a school leaver and the following years doing my apprenticeship, and you know why it was easy for me, because i had all the drive and motivation you say that you have!

At no point did i ever take anything away from you guys, nor have i ever lost any of my respect for the genuinely good sparks, i have great admiration and respect for all the guys.

Busting my balls?? yes, 14 hours a day in a kitchen working till midnight most nights and then having to get up and go to collage on my day off, its a killer but i love it and i wouldnt have it any other way when the day comes and i can finally turn my back on my old trade and never set foot in a kitchen again and just be a sparks, well that will be pay day, never know i might even retun home to Ireland and create a bit of compatition for you

 

[megaman83]

i wouldnt bother theres no work here lol

 

[High Tower]

i wouldnt bother theres no work here lol

Yeah i know i was over 3 weeks ago helping finish my aunts B&B it will pick up again im sure soon.

Went up to belfast a couple of times to a few of my dads old haunts, the city is looking better than ever.

Cant see me ever going back to live, been here neerly all my life since i was a baby, im as much a brummie as i am a paddy, did consider it for a while but i have too many things to tie me here

 

[1shortcircuit]

Well guys this is one hell of a thread and before I go on I have realised that I am resurrecting a dated discussion

09-10-2009

but as I am new to the forum and just sat and read from post one I felt it would be most rude NOT to post a reply.

Firstly I would like to mention that I am starting a short course in January and I have not read a single comment on here that has deterred me.

I would like to say that I totally agree with the comments that are opposed to letting newly qualified electricians from carrying out more complicated and professional procedures.

I for one will not be jumping in with both feet and will treat the first couple of years as on site training.

Now I know for a fact that I would be an asset to most of you guys if I were to be fortunate enough to get the opportunity to work FOR you. This is solely down to the fact that I am adaptable and very hands on. I have not had an employer ever say a bad word about the quality of my work and the effort I have put in and I'm not ashamed to admit that this ranges from jobs as a cleaner (including toilets) in a Chinese restaurant many years ago, to labouring on site, putting multi tonne loads a 150 feet in the air, operating a telescopic forklift, and managing a workshop in the motor industry to list just a few.

One thing I have noticed is that it sounds like alot of the negativity has been caused due to the competition being created by these newly qualified electricians. I would like to point out though, had the Government pulled it's finger out and addressed the Apprenticeship route that you are all banging on about then your competition would in fact be far more fierce.

I also agree that the gas safe route should be applied to electrics. This hasn't stopped a friend of mine still becoming a plumber though.

I don't see why you PROFESSIONALS feel threatened though, yes you may have to sell yourselves a little more but at the end of the day YOU HAVE the qualifications AND the EXPERIENCE and surely you shall just continue to reep the benefits due to the newbies causing masses of damage ready for you to come in and put right and earn a small fortune???

PS just a note, you don't have to have attended a short course and recently qualified to appear on TV programmes like watch dog and named and shamed or whatever they are called. Wherever there is money to be made there will always be someone out there looking to exploit it further and this INCLUDES the electrical industry!


Anyway, why have I decided to spend a lot of money and enter a trade where there is NO work?

I look at it like this, it's better to spend and train now whilst the trade is on it's backside and be prepared for when the construction trade kicks off again! It will happen, you do know that right?

The way I see it, my course is likely to take 18 months to complete and a further couple of years finding my feet and gaining experience.

My Goal is to hopefully be at the stage where I can work for myself by the age of 40 and I'm 32 now.

 

[Mark.W]

Anymore of this and this thread will be permanently closed!