Bought ceiling light online which wire is which?

[Syed06]

 

[Deleted account]

They are labelled on the driver itself L N

but check with the instructions.

 

[freddo]

This product does not appear to meet class I or class II construction standards and would not be suitable for installation in the UK.

 

[loz2754]

What we don't see is any provision for connecting a CPC (earth), or any indication that an earth is not required (class 2 symbol).
Connecting this fitting without an earth could be potentially dangerous.
I would suggest you get an electrician to test it and, if it is suitable, to fit it while he is there.

 

[pirate]

The Class 2 symbol is printed on the driver. The cables "may" be double insulated, but it's not possible to tell from the pic

 

[Deleted account]

The Class 2 symbol is printed on the driver. The cables "may" be double insulated, but it's not possible to tell from the pic

True but i bet the connection won’t be double insulated.

surely the fitting can’t be classed as double insulated unless there is provision for a double insulated joint.

in my opinion this light is not fit for purpose.

 

[GBDamo]

The Class 2 symbol is printed on the driver. The cables "may" be double insulated, but it's not possible to tell from the pic

Seen similar, look how thick the mains tails are with regard to the conductors.

 

[loz2754]

The Class 2 symbol is printed on the driver. The cables "may" be double insulated, but it's not possible to tell from the pic

I need new glasses

 

[GBDamo]

True but i bet the connection won’t be double insulated.

surely the fitting can’t be classed as double insulated unless there is provision for a double insulated joint.

in my opinion this light is not fit for purpose.

Like so many fashion lights, all fur coat and no knickers.

 

[westward10]

The double insulated symbol is for the driver only the fitting should have a plate stating its construction and other info.

 

[pirate]

I need new glasses

Ha, I'm using a 24" monitor and my reading glasses!

 

[pirate]

The double insulated symbol is for the driver only the fitting should have a plate stating its construction and other info.

Very fair point. In a perfect world...but lighting manufacturers live in a different space...

 

[pirate]

True but i bet the connection won’t be double insulated.

It's impossible to tell as there seems no method of opening the case to inspect further. It may be the case that were you to break into the casing the connector inside has an extra layer of insulation. The whole problem is that we are so used to dodgy light fittings that we tend to distrust them...and rightly so.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I suppose as electricians most would not defer to common law and "innocent until proven guilty" ??

 

[pirate]

This question of light fittings being fit for purpose is something I have been researching. The amazing diversity of construction methods is fascinating, and so far it's clear to me that just a little care and attention to detail could make many fittings safe when they are not so as bought. I don't intend to hijack this thread, but may start a new one for those who are interested.
In this particular case, a rubber bush where the cable enters the fitting, and a clip to provide extra strain relief before the cable enters the driver, would allay my fears. There appears to be a push-fit connector on the incoming cable, and a strain relief clip encircling that would be cheap and easy. If those cables are double insulated then I would probably fit it in my own home. If not, I wouldn't.

 

[Mike Johnson]

How about a double nut and earth tag on one of the metal studs?

 

[pirate]

I like that idea, but that means introducing a cpc to the fitting.

 

[Mike Johnson]

All lighting points should have a cpc anyway what better place to park it.

 

[pirate]

I fully agree...but life's not like that. As long as we have retailers selling stuff for amateurs to fit, there will be dodgy stuff out there. If there's no cpc present, the no Class 1 should be fitted, or if the fitting is designed to be Class 2, then it should be "properly" Class 2 and not some pseudo version.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Agreed, earlier you said about inspecting inside the unit, I think if you undid the four nuts on the studs the fitting may fall into sufficient bits to inspect inside, not that I think you will find anything useful. ?

 

[snowhead]

There will be a base plate for that, that may have a parking connector for CPC and may also have a lable relevant to the whole fitting and not just driver module.

 

[pirate]

Ah, maybe i wasn't clear earlier. I meant inspect inside the driver itself, to view the connection type within.
Some items have a couple of screws each end allowing removal of the cover to get access to where the terminals are situated. However, this driver doesn't, and seems in conformity with many items of Class 2 equipment which are effectively sealed units.

 

[freddo]

The problem is widespread as there are so many direct from china products available for sale now. Any dodgy stuff I just refuse to fit. Why should I I would waste my time and effort trying to make a product compliant by modifying it, when the manufacturer can't be bothered? Which could then leave me liable if any incidences occur.

Even if I did modify the fitting I would technically then need to ensure it meets the low voltage directive and relevant British standards for luminaires, carry out a product conformity assessment and statement, then submit this information to get approval to CE mark the product I have modified. I would also need to carry out a full compliment of tests, including high current earth testing (min 10A test current) for Class I lights as well as carrying out a high voltage flash test (1.5KV min).

There will be a base plate for that, that may have a parking connector for CPC and may also have a lable relevant to the whole fitting and not just driver module.

Even so there appears to be no effective earth connection to the light fitting itself, say via a link earth lead and the mains conductors appear single insulated, which rules out class II construction.

 

[pirate]

Another gripe of mine is the lack of a spare terminal on Class 2 stuff where you can neatly "park" an unused cpc, for future use.
Also, while I am a great fan of Quinetc gear, I really dislike the lack of a cpc terminal on the receiver.
I'm just grumpy, I guess...

 

[Lister1987]

Like so many fashion lights, all fur coat and no knickers.

Easy access ? (to love parts....I mean live parts) ?

 

[pirate]

the mains conductors appear single insulated, which rules out class II construction.

I think they "may" be double insulated, but it's speculation, of course

i have connected a cpc to a light fitting with no provision for one, and didn't feel the need to go for "type approval" but I agree, one should not have to modify the fitting where the manufacturers have failed.

 

[Syed06]

They are labelled on the driver itself L N

but check with the instructions.

Thanks for your reply. Package had no instructions hence is the confusion. Which one will be connected to red and which to black... Any thoughts

 

[brianmoooore]

It doesn't matter which way around they are connected, but what is being debated here is whether this fitting is safe to install.
It's a common problem. These 'fashion' lights tend to be cheaply made, and not to acceptable standards.

 

[Deleted account]

Thanks for your reply. Package had no instructions hence is the confusion. Which one will be connected to red and which to black... Any thoughts

Contact the retailer. They should be able to help. Installation instructions are a requirment.
if they can’t supply them ask for a refund.

 

[Syed06]

Contact the retailer. They should be able to help. Installation instructions are a requirment.
if they can’t supply them ask for a refund.

Thanks everyone for your help. I managed to get that fixed with guidance you provided.