Capping or no capping?

[Calebp43]

Do you use capping to protect your cables? I recently watched a YouTube video explaining why you should use capping to protect your cables. I personally don't think it's needed for the following reasons;

- it's not in the regs. Although there are things in the regs saying to protect the cable from environmental factors and mechanical protection, it never says to use it. You could make a case for the regs implying too use it but I think it would be a poor case.

- very little extra mechanical protection, if any!

- a lot more time consuming.

- It's more expensive. this can be a real factor for a lot of people. Not a lot of people have the money for a rewire and adding that extra cost could be the difference.

But on the hand it does have its benefits;

- easy to replace cables. If that leg has an issue it's much easier to replace that leg or repair it when the cable has been capped all the way to the box.

- metal capping has more mechanical protection.

- prevents plaster deteriating cables.

All things considered when the choice is mine I think I will put it as an option for the customer for a fee of course, listing the pros of having it.

I'm an apprentice. Should be qualified next year. I would really value your opinions on why I should or shouldn't use capping. I've worked for 3 sparks and neither one have used capping. So I've only ever really heard one side of the argument. Thanks in advance.

 

[LastManOnline]

This stuff? Have to say I detest oval conduit for the very reasons you describe and all this time I thought round conduit was used in IE!

Only advantage of oval conduit over round is the shallower chase required. After that it's all disadvantages.

. I take it you're familiar with the stuff commonly used in GB?

No.Have yet to order some

 

[nicebutdim]

No.Have yet to order some

It's very shallow, with a wide edge - the only place I've seen used was on poorly installed pvc windows, where a large window was replaced with two small units and this capping was siliconed over the join. Never seen it used over cables.

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

Little consolation when testing indicates a damaged cable that subsequently has to be replaced. Doesn't matter who pays for the remedials - no one wants to unnecessarily find themselves doing the same job twice.

Someone would have to be unfathomably horrendous at their job to damage a cable to the extent that it needs replacing in that situation. I'm struggling to imagine how one would even manage to do that with a trowel (especially a worn in one) even when purposefully trying to do it. Non issue in my opinion and imo capping is just unnecessary.

 

[nicebutdim]

Someone would have to be unfathomably horrendous at their job to damage a cable to the extent that it needs replacing in that situation. I'm struggling to imagine how one would even manage to do that with a trowel (especially a worn in one) even when purposefully trying to do it. Non issue in my opinion and imo capping is just unnecessary.

I also feel that capping is unnecessary and have stated many times that round conduit is my preferred method of containment, where cables are to be buried in walls.

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

I also feel that capping is unnecessary and have stated many times that round conduit is my preferred method of containment, where cables are to be buried in walls.

Is that what you do in Ireland?

I find that weird that people would feel cable needs containment at all. The outer sheathing is there for a reason otherwise we'd all just use singles.

 

[telectrix]

I don’t have much call for capping these days.

Agree that something needs to be used, not just clipped into the channel which can be a job in itself when the blocks are too hard to nail and the mortar is too soft.

A bit of plastic, or tin capping isn’t going to stop a nail or drill, but then, no one should be nailing or drilling into a safe zone directly above a switch anyway.

but then, no one should be nailing or drilling into a safe zone directly above a switch anyway.

so when is somebody going to tell Kevin Kitchen fitter that?

 

[littlespark]

Would kev the kitchen stop drilling when his drill starts making that ting ting ting sound as it bounces off any capping?

Nooooo…. Just keep going

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

Would kev the kitchen stop drilling when his drill starts making that ting ting ting sound as it bounces off any capping?

Nooooo…. Just keep going

I'm not up to date on domestic regs but i thought the RCD protection was what mattered? Still don't see much use for capping when it can just be drilled through and is RCD protected.

 

[pc1966]

I'm not up to date on domestic regs but i thought the RCD protection was what mattered? Still don't see much use for capping when it can just be drilled through and is RCD protected.

Yes, in most cases if the cable is not at least 50mm deep then RCD protection is needed (exceptions being the likes of SWA or cables to BS 8436 or IS 273 standards such as Flexishield).

Metal capping is not enough. If it were reliably earthed then it would allow safe disconnection without a RCD, but that is not likely. Traditional metal conduit would do, as it is designed to be the system CPC anyway.

The on-site guide suggests at least 3mm thick steel is needed for physical protection of cables. Even then I feel that it should be properly earthed as somebody could still penetrate it with a power tool and lack of care (or maybe nail-gun?) and having a large chunk of buried metal go live is I suspect worse. So my own choice would be plastic & RCD as most domestic circuits need that anyway.

 

[Deleted account]

A fifth option. It depends.
I did put no needed, but only if I am doing a light skim covering of my cables. If someone else is working around my cables after me and covering them I’d want to protect them From light tools and trowels.

its real easy to slice through insulation with a trowel. Ive done it myself.

 

[LastManOnline]

Is that what you do in Ireland?

Yes. The regs require it in ROI. In NI it is optional but their preferred method of installation is to use conduit.

I find that weird that people would feel cable needs containment at all.

We are all naturally very influenced by the electrical culture we grow up in. I would say that on balance most countries view use of containment as the norm.

 

[nicebutdim]

Is that what you do in Ireland?

I find that weird that people would feel cable needs containment at all. The outer sheathing is there for a reason otherwise we'd all just use singles.

It's what we do in Northern Ireland and I've posted about it in this thread, so felt that much would be apparant.

As for outer sheath; perhaps you could pull singles through it, but I certainly couldn't. Containment serves more than one purpose and in this instance it does more than simply offer protection against a trowel. Damage from trowels would be the least of my concerns and ease of future works a much greater issue.

You wouldn't cut cables so tight that no slack was available for future re-termination, so what exactly do you find weird about using low cost containment that allows slack to be pulled from the ceiling void, or even replacement of a cable, without the need for chopping walls?

What I find odd is the fact that a trainee spark, with a background in construction, would do the bare minimum required and not a thing more.

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

It's what we do in Northern Ireland and I've posted about it in this thread, so felt that much would be apparant.

I don't read much of what you post to be honest mate, i just skim stuff on here.

As for outer sheath; perhaps you could pull singles through it, but I certainly couldn't.

But conduit is literally for pulling in singles. It's there so you don't have to have outer sheathing.

What I find odd is the fact that a trainee spark, with a background in construction, would do the bare minimum required and not a thing more.

Doing unnecessary work doesn't mean you're doing more than 'the bare minimum', it means you're wasting your time and money and most importantly the customer's time and money.

I don't ferrule the neutral bar either because it's not necessary but some blokes do because it's 'better'. No difference here in my opinion.

 

[nicebutdim]

I don't read much of what you post to be honest mate, i just skim stuff on here.

It might aid your understanding of particular comments, and help with posting meaningful responses, if you were to do so.

But conduit is literally for pulling in singles. It's there so you don't have to have outer sheathing.

Where did you learn this? Conduit can indeed serve that purpose, but it most certainly isn't its only function.

Doing unnecessary work doesn't mean you're doing more than 'the bare minimum', it means you're wasting your time and money and most importantly the customer's time and money.

I beg to differ and having pulled new cables through old conduits, consider its use to have been money well spent. Perhaps you might ask for a customer's opinion, rather than make such decisions on their behalf. We're a bit rude over here, in not asking whether or not the customer wants conduit in their walls, as it's standard practice.

I don't ferrule the neutral bar either because it's not necessary but some blokes do because it's 'better'. No difference here in my opinion.

It may or may not be necessary, depending on specific circumstances, but I don't consider this to be a useful analogy.

If you'd offered additional insulation in a new property 20 years ago, rather than being a waste of money it would have saved them considerable sums on their heating bills. Most builders wouldn't have done more than the bare minimum.

If a homeowner needs to have a cable replaced (for whatever reason) I very much doubt they'd consider £2 of conduit and bush to have been money wasted, when the alternative is chopping into their wall, replastering and redecorating.

If you don't like the idea of conduit, then don't use it, but don't try to present a weak argument about it being money wasted.

 

[7029 dave]

It might aid your understanding of particular comments, and help with posting meaningful responses, if you were to do so.

Where did you learn this? Conduit can indeed serve that purpose, but it most certainly isn't its only function.

I beg to differ and having pulled new cables through old conduits, consider its use to have been money well spent. Perhaps you might ask for a customer's opinion, rather than make such decisions on their behalf. We're a bit rude over here, in not asking whether or not the customer wants conduit in their walls, as it's standard practice.

It may or may not be necessary, depending on specific circumstances, but I don't consider this to be a useful analogy.

If you'd offered additional insulation in a new property 20 years ago, rather than being a waste of money it would have saved them considerable sums on their heating bills. Most builders wouldn't have done more than the bare minimum.

If a homeowner needs to have a cable replaced (for whatever reason) I very much doubt they'd consider £2 of conduit and bush to have been money wasted, when the alternative is chopping into their wall, replastering and redecorating.

If you don't like the idea of conduit, then don't use it, but don't try to present a weak argument about it being money wasted.

Pulling through conduits on rewires, especially on switch drops has saved me time extra work and no redecoration for the client, that has to be a massive plus.

 

[DPG]

Oval tubing or plastic capping seem preferable to me. Metal capping can have sharp edges that can damage cable. Also it cannot be effectively earthed.

 

[Intoelectrics]

But conduit is literally for pulling in singles. It's there so you don't have to have outer sheathing.

Doing unnecessary work doesn't mean you're doing more than 'the bare minimum', it means you're wasting your time and money and most importantly the customer's time and money.

Quite often its faster and easier to cap over the cables than clip them direct, (depending on the situation) It also often adds to the benefit of allowing slack to be pulled in the event of a cable being damaged at the accessory, and then left too short for re-termination.

In fact, an apprentice working for me once damaged the cable on the second fix stage of a job, where he had nicked one of the cores leaving the cable too short to re-terminate. Fortunately we were able to pull some slack through the capping saving the job of either creating a joint or re-chopping out the nicely finished new plaster. I also had a situation where there was a faulty cable in the leg of a recently installed final ring circuit. I was able to pull the offending leg out and pull in a new length saving me the job of re-chasing out.

So there is value to the customer and future electricians at a relatively low cost, so not really a waste of time or money.

Conduit has its benefit for future proofing and the addition of some extra protection (even if not required) this is not a bad thing and again depending on the situation a sensible option.

I think its just good practice to try and future proof where possible. Why not do what you can to make things a little better for the person that follows you? If we all did this (including all the other trades as well) then life would be so much easier for both the professionals and their customers.