Curious box enclosing meter, with electronics

[SJD]

Can anyone cast some light on a curious meter I came across today.

The old-style meter has a circuit board fitted on top, and the whole lot enclosed with a Perspex cover, with meter seals at each corner to prevent access. See photo below (hopefully).

What is this for?

I'll try to add a close-up of part of the board in another post.

 

[SJD]

Here is a close-up of the board, as best I could without accessing the inside.

NB this is a very small house, likely one of the "social" units on a large estate, now a rental property, maybe 30 to 40 years old.

 

[johnduffell]

Probably the meter kept being bypassed or tampered and that's to alarm or record any interference.
I expect the current bill payer could probably get it removed.

 

[mhar]

The economy 7 radio switches could have issues switching on and off because of geographical and outside influences. Think they used to rely on a radio4 longwave signal to switch. Could this be a timer control circuit for econ 7? Maybe a relay for econ 7?

 

[buzzlightyear]

it could have came from Afghanistan. I could be a b/trap for the mice .

 

[elsparko]

Here is a close-up of the board, as best I could without accessing the inside.

NB this is a very small house, likely one of the "social" units on a large estate, now a rental property, maybe 30 to 40 years old.View attachment 43774

nothing you need to worry about touching, if those seals are on it its someone elses problem

 

[davesparks]

The red and black wires appear to power in coming from the incoming side of the meter. Can you see what the other wires connect to (looks like yellow and black to me)?

 

[SJD]

It is not Economy 7, there is no off-peak supply/usage in the premises.

My thoughts were also relating to anti-tamper and/or meter bypassing, perhaps from a long-gone tenant.

I've no intention of touching it myself (thanks, elsparko), and I've suggested to the landlord that the supplier likely would be delighted to swap it for a smart meter to help meet their targets. Just that I'd like to know something about it.

All the wires appear to go to the meter connections (red/black twisted pair, and yellow/brown twisted pair). I can't see for sure but I'm fairly sure none of the wires leave the Perspex enclosure.

 

[buzzlightyear]

it could be the first smart test meter .

 

[davesparks]

Maybe it is a device to slow down the meter or otherwise interfere with its operation.
Having it visible but sealed in an enclosure to look like it is DNO property is probably a better way of disguising such a device than any attempt to hide it.

DNO operatives and meter readers are taught to look for hidden attempts to bypass the meter, but they might just assume a sealed box is legitimate.

 

[buzzlightyear]

the meter says on it 93 the relay shows 94 .

 

[Andy78]

Could it be a device installed to check meter accuracy ?

 

[telectrix]

this may shed some light on the subject:
http://www.cyplex.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=28

 

[SJD]

this may shed some light on the subject:
http://www.cyplex.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=28

So perhaps some early kind of "smart" meter after all?

 

[SJD]

I have one more photo, of the top visible side of the PCB, which might give more clues?

 

[buzzlightyear]

it could be the first smart test meter

So perhaps some early kind of "smart" meter after all

I maybe wright.

 

[telectrix]

I maybe wright.

orville, wilbur, or wheel?

 

[Sparksaflyin]

Probably the meter kept being bypassed or tampered and that's to alarm or record any interference.
I expect the current bill payer could probably get it removed.

I’d have to agree with this comment. Looks like a tamper.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I’d have to agree with this comment. Looks like a tamper

what bell ! lol some mothers do have them.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

what bell ! lol some mothers do have them.

Explain.........

 

[buzzlightyear]

Explain.........

the meter is the original smart meter tele switching .

 

[Sparksaflyin]

the meter is the original smart meter tele switching .

Ten points for you smart ---! Clever and clearly very modest how can you be so sure it’s an original smart meter?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Ten points for you smart ---! Clever and clearly very modest how can you be so sure it’s an original smart meter?

I have been round the block a bit.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I don't think it's 'smart', just a telemetry interface for remote reading. There's a pulse output terminal on the meter at 6Wh/pulse, which the board totalises and transmits. It does enable tamper detection as the mechanical total should equal the electronic total. I am not sure whether the transmitter itself is present.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

I have been round the block a bit.

I’m sure you have mate but that’s not exactly a very convincing answer not sure you’d get it passed a judge and jury. You may as well have just poked your tongue out, waved your hands about aside your head and said ner ner

 

[SJD]

I don't think it's 'smart', just a telemetry interface for remote reading. There's a pulse output terminal on the meter at 6Wh/pulse, which the board totalises and transmits. It does enable tamper detection as the mechanical total should equal the electronic total. I am not sure whether the transmitter itself is present.

So in an urban estate, from what was one of the "social" units that the developers had to include, where would the telemetry be received?

And do you think this is more likely as a tamper deterrent, rather than a need to read remotely.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I would imagine it was fitted to monitor suspicious activity or where there were ongoing access problems. Perhaps it could be interrogated from outside the property? I don't think it's GSM.

 

[buzzlightyear]

where would the telemetry be received

cop shop,, you could ring the DNO and ask them before you take it apart.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

So in an urban estate, from what was one of the "social" units that the developers had to include, where would the telemetry be received?

And do you think this is more likely as a tamper deterrent, rather than a need to read remotely.

So just so I can be sure........ it’s a tamper like was stated earlier?

 

[Sparksaflyin]

And no I’m not taking the credit! I just agreed......

 

[Sparksaflyin]

And no I’m not taking the credit! I just agreed......

 

[Lucien Nunes]

A tamper (a.k.a rammer) is a lump of iron on the end of a long handle used for compacting soil or asphalt, e.g. where a power rammer can't access.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

A tamper (a.k.a rammer) is a lump of iron on the end of a long handle used for compacting soil or asphalt, e.g. where a power rammer can't access.

Ok. Getting past a mere technicality, you know what I mean! I mean a device that is put in place to prevent and inform of unwanted access.

 

[Percyprod]

Looks very dodgy. The plastic cases were fitted in cases where the meter had been tampered with, a new meter would be fitted and the plastic cover fitted. Although it wouldn't prevent another go at interference, it would be very obvious, so no chance of 'I don't know anything about it!'. I don't think a meter would be left with no terminal cover fitted though, so could be a 'black box' has been fitted, to slow or stop the meter. I woyld certainly advise you to contact dno or supplier.

 

[telectrix]

a lot of houses were built with these perspex enclosures i outside meter boxes. think the idea was to prevent tampering before the fact rather than after.

 

[Percyprod]

They were definitely after the fact! Tampered with meter was removed as evidence of theft, and a new meter fitted. Originally we used fixing scrrwd that could only be tightened, not undone . All sealed up and supply left on. Sometimes had to drill hole for cards if a card Meyer fitted

 

[Marvo]

Looks like an early generation IC/SS power line communication set up. A predecessor to the ethernet over power plug-in systems you get today. Probably used to remote read the meter.

 

[w0z]

There's green LED on lhs, does that flash at any particular rate linked to the meter rate?

 

[SJD]

There's green LED on lhs, does that flash at any particular rate linked to the meter rate?

I've finished work at the property, and not expecting to return, so no idea about the flashing rate.

In reply to Percyprod post #34, I was also surprised to see no cover over the meter terminals, but I guess that was to be able to connect the fly leads to the electronics board. From the board manufacturer name, I don't think it is some device to slow or stop the meter. But then again, if you were making such a device, you'd try to make it look like something else that was legit.

 

[Percyprod]

Yes, don't see why fly leads couldn't be fitted into terminals.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

As I mentioned earlier it is a special meter with a pulse output to drive the telemetry module. The box is not something someone has randomly slapped over a regular meter as they don't have a pulse output.

 

[w0z]

As I mentioned earlier it is a special meter with a pulse output to drive the telemetry module. The box is not something someone has randomly slapped over a regular meter as they don't have a pulse output.

hence my question about the led

 

[stevels4]

The concentric cable from the cut out to the meter is definitely anti tamper, the electronic gubbins appears to be a pulse counter.