EICR codes advice

[mattg4321]

If the cable from the socket before the fuse is 1mm² then this is power wiring and the minimum size is now 1.5mm², but really it will not be a problem and could be considered as the spur is for lighting only, perhaps.

Thanks, hadn't thought of that. Think I'm going to C3 it anyway. I know in reality it's never going to be a problem but it just seems like a bit of a bodge.

 

[davesparks]

Thanks, hadn't thought of that. Think I'm going to C3 it anyway. I know in reality it's never going to be a problem but it just seems like a bit of a bodge.

Code C3 is exclusively for identifying items which could have specific safety improvements made. It is not for identifying things you don't like the look of

 

[mattg4321]

Code C3 is exclusively for identifying items which could have specific safety improvements made. It is not for identifying things you don't like the look of

So the fact Table 52.3 states that the minimum size for power circuits is 1.5mm2 doesn't mean using 1mm2 goes against the regs? If it does, surely it needs coding?

 

[Flanders]

I agree that it is BS 5839-1:2013, but this does not mean that a C3 coding is appropriate. It means that it must not be coded as it is not a non-compliance with BS 7671:2008 (2015). As such a covering letter would be perhaps the best place to highlight the issue - but certainly not in an Electrical Installation Condition Report to BS 7671.

I would give it code 3 as an improvment can be made to make ths installtion safer but i get your point that it may not be relevant to bs7671 , as far as im aware a code 3 is not saying it does not comply to the bs 7671 just that improvement can be made , it was the old code 4 that ment it did not comply to bs 7671

 

[Risteard]

I came across one today that had me slightly stumped.

1mm T+E from socket on ring final, to feed some lighting via a 3A fuse in a SFCU.

It seems wrong to do this and I never would, but theres no way the cable from the socket to the SFCU can be overloaded as the 3A fuse obviously limits current flow in that cable.

Thoughts? Struggling to think of a reg this contravenes...

Overload is not the only consideration. You must also demonstrate that it is adequate for short circuit protection.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

We are only required to record a non-compliance, if it may present a danger.
Would anyone really consider the length of cable between an RFC and an FCU as being wiring for power if it supplies lighting?
With regards to fire alarm Regulations and the fact that an EICR is conducted to the requirements of BS7671:
Regulation 110.1.3 informs us that BS7671 may need to be supplemented by the requirements or recommendations of other British or Harmonized Standards.
Further, Regulation 115.1 informs us that the requirements of licensing authorities will have to be complied with, for installations in premises subject to statutory licensing.
To my mind it is best to discuss with the client just which standards or licensing requirements (if any), need to be taken account of, before undertaking the inspection.

 

[Risteard]

BS7671 may need to be supplemented by the requirements or recommendations of other British or Harmonized Standards.

These other Standards have their own model forms for reporting, however.

 

[Flanders]

I can be a fine line between observing something that requires attention and punting for work , for example when doing an EICR you notice that the emergency lights are not working now you could ignore this as it has nothing to do with bs7671 or you could put down as info on the report so it is highlighted to the customer and it is up to them if they wish to action it further ( I think this just shows how observant you are when carrying out an inspection) , and thinking about it the same apply to the cables supplying the fire alarm so yes may be a code 3 was over the top . I have often spotted things in the building that have nothing to do with the electrical installation but have mentioned them to the customer such as jammed fire doors or small water leak.

 

[Risteard]

I have often spotted things in the building that have nothing to do with the electrical installation but have mentioned them to the customer such as jammed fire doors or small water leak.

I presume you didn't list them as Observations on an Electrical Installation Condition Report, though?

 

[Flanders]

I presume you didn't list them as Observations on an Electrical Installation Condition Report, though?

Yes just a chat with the customer

 

[davesparks]

So the fact Table 52.3 states that the minimum size for power circuits is 1.5mm2 doesn't mean using 1mm2 goes against the regs? If it does, surely it needs coding?

No, you are not assessing absolute compliance with 7671. You are assessing the installation's suitability for continued service using 7671 as the reference for the standard of safety. You do not code things just because they are 'against regs', solid green earths, old core colours and imperial cable sizes are all arguably 'against regs' but you don't code them as they have no effect on safety.
C3 is to be used to code observations where an improvement could be made for safety, it is not for identifying items which could be changed just for the sake of satisfying a regulation.
If the 1mm is operating safely as it is then there is no observation to made.
If the 1mm is undersized for the load or fault current then it would be a C2 as it would become dangerous under fault conditions.