Fault finding on ring final circuit

[Bradley6969]

Fault finding on ring final, is this the readings you would expect to achieve and are these the correct way to find them thanks

 

[Pete999]

Fault finding on ring final, is this the readings you would expect to achieve and are these the correct way to find them thanks

View attachment 38835

View attachment 38836

 

[Pete999]

Fault finding on ring final, is this the readings you would expect to achieve and are these the correct way to find them thanks

View attachment 38835

View attachment 38836

Are you a trainee, electrician or a DIYer as your profile is a little sparse.

 

[Bradley6969]

Are you a trainee, electrician or a DIYer as your profile is a little sparse.

3rd year apprentice don’t do much fault finding

 

[Pete999]

3rd year apprentice don’t do much fault finding

Then to aid us in helping perhaps you could update your profile and avoid unnecessarily obtuse answers.
If you are in training then I suggest you apply for access to the trainee area, lots of help on there from Mentors me included.

 

[Octopus]

3rd year apprentice don’t do much fault finding

You need to raise this with your employer ....... Fault finding is a key skill, learnt on the job, from others .....

 

[Pete999]

You need to raise this with your employer ....... Fault finding is a key skill, learnt on the job, from others .....

I'm guessing here but my guess he is his employer

 

[Octopus]

I'm guessing here but my guess he is his employer

Are you suggesting the apprentice is the boss?

 

[Pete999]

Are you suggesting the apprentice is the boss?

Well what's your take, the OP Could be doing a private job.

 

[Bradley6969]

I don’t fault find at work so pointless asking my boss and it’s for AM2 in few weeks and college have too many people to bother about showing me

 

[Pete999]

I don’t fault find at work so pointless asking my boss and it’s for AM2 in few weeks and college have too many people to bother about showing me

Have you looked at the video yet? that should help know end, not much of a Boss if you feel you can't ask him a question, decent people won't mind answering a legitimate question. Where are you based? Sorry missed that London too far for me to come and help you out.

 

[Bradley6969]

Have you looked at the video yet? that should help know end, not much of a Boss if you feel you can't ask him a question, decent people won't mind answering a legitimate question. Where are you based?

Yes I’ve watched it, just wanted to know as in AM2 your only allowed continuity tester so all faults are wiring it’s just the same as dead testing just wanted to know if my drawings was correct

 

[Pete999]

Seems odd to me that they only allow a continuity tester, the correct way would be to get resistance readings r1 r2 and rn and then do a figure of 8 R1+R2 reading that would prove your RFC is complete and OK.

 

[Richard Burns]

Pete's approach above is the best one, it will catch most faults, but as you only have a continuity tester:
Reverse polarity:
Normally easiest to find by inspection.
Assuming you have correct end to end resistance results, Joining two poles at the board one of which is not the expected reversed polarity and testing at the socket fronts should give one socket with OL result all others should be very low resistance.
Your diagram and method will work.

Open circuit:
discovered by end to end testing, join one non continuous core to a continuous core and test between the cores at each socket, when you get OL result this is where the fault exists (or the socket beforehand on the outgoing core).
Your diagram and method will work so long as only one leg is joined.

High resistance:
Similar method to open circuit but where the resistance rises is where the fault is (or the socket before hand).
Your diagram and method will work.

Short circuit:
testing between disconnected cores at board the low resistance reading indicates the faulty cores, break the ring down half and half again testing each time between the faulty cores until the fault is narrowed down.
Your diagram and method will not work. only the bit about breaking the ring applies, adding another short circuit to the circuit will not help.

 

[Bradley6969]

Pete's approach above is the best one, it will catch most faults, but as you only have a continuity tester:
Reverse polarity:
Normally easiest to find by inspection.
Assuming you have correct end to end resistance results, Joining two poles at the board one of which is not the expected reversed polarity and testing at the socket fronts should give one socket with OL result all others should be very low resistance.
Your diagram and method will work.

Open circuit:
discovered by end to end testing, join one non continuous core to a continuous core and test between the cores at each socket, when you get OL result this is where the fault exists (or the socket beforehand on the outgoing core).
Your diagram and method will work so long as only one leg is joined.

High resistance:
Similar method to open circuit but where the resistance rises is where the fault is (or the socket before hand).
Your diagram and method will work.

Short circuit:
testing between disconnected cores at board the low resistance reading indicates the faulty cores, break the ring down half and half again testing each time between the faulty cores until the fault is narrowed down.
Your diagram and method will not work. only the bit about breaking the ring applies, adding another short circuit to the circuit will not help.

Thanks so open circuit connect at board end eg. L+N then test at socket between L+N if I get reading OL then open circuit or can do end to end on each socket eg test L to L from socket 1 to 2,
Short circuit, so break ring in half then test end to end at each socket no r1+r2 as this is just adding another short circuit

 

[telectrix]

don't over think. thast's a major problem.

a ring is just that. . 3 pieces of wire. you have 3 bits of wire with both ends at the CU. end 1 should connect to end 2, and not connect to the others. sssssimplesss.

 

[Bradley6969]

don't over think. thast's a major problem.

a ring is just that. . 3 pieces of wire. you have 3 bits of wire with both ends at the CU. end 1 should connect to end 2, and not connect to the others. sssssimplesss.

Thanks that’s my problem cause I don’t do much fault finding I just over think it

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I had a NICEIC book once upon a time all about fault finding and solutions to identify and solve the faults etc... not sure what happened to it???? but it was very useful when i started out. i bought it at a carboot for hardly anything and paid for itself many times over... Anybody know if the NICEIC are still making upto date versions of the little help books?

 

[Pete999]

Thanks so open circuit connect at board end eg. L+N then test at socket between L+N if I get reading OL then open circuit or can do end to end on each socket eg test L to L from socket 1 to 2,
Short circuit, so break ring in half then test end to end at each socket no r1+r2 as this is just adding another short circuit

No such animal as r1+r2 It's R1+R2 which is the figure of 8 reading after you have done end to end r1,r2 and rn and inter connected the conductors as per the video instructions

 

[Sparkingmad]

Bradley if your doing your AM2 my only advice is if you locate a fault but don’t think it could be that simple don’t panic or over think things. One of the faults we had thrown at us was a blown lamp on a lighting circuit. And yes you couldn’t remove said lamp to test it properly. I will have a look through some of my books to see if they have pics and easy explanations for you.

 

[Bradley6969]

Bradley if your doing your AM2 my only advice is if you locate a fault but don’t think it could be that simple don’t panic or over think things. One of the faults we had thrown at us was a blown lamp on a lighting circuit. And yes you couldn’t remove said lamp to test it properly. I will have a look through some of my books to see if they have pics and easy explanations for you.

Thanks I’ve done build today have 1 circuit left and then testing and then fault finding either tomorrow or wednesday

 

[koldwater]

.. Fault finding is a key skill, learnt on the job, from others .....

Welcome to the 21st century, where real-world simulation software can train and test you on electrical troubleshooting (Fault finding) by creating so many simulated faults for you to troubleshoot, it would take you literally years to gain that experience OJT. (Our mother company sells the electrical troubleshooting training and testing software series.)

 

[Jakegood]

I find it is easiest to break the ring in the middle and also at the board. You are then left with two radial circuits, easier to work with.

 

[Bradley6969]

I find it is easiest to break the ring in the middle and also at the board. You are then left with two radial circuits, easier to work with.

Yeah that’s what I did I passed everything else but failed fault finding when I was doing ring I was looking for either cross polarity or open or short circuit and believe it or not the fault was a high resistance took me ages to find it

 

[Pete999]

Bad luck Mate sorry to hear you failed

 

[Bradley6969]

Bad luck Mate sorry to hear you failed

Cheers I’ll get it next time

 

[ipf]

Bradley if your doing your AM2 my only advice is if you locate a fault but don’t think it could be that simple don’t panic or over think things. One of the faults we had thrown at us was a blown lamp on a lighting circuit. And yes you couldn’t remove said lamp to test it properly. I will have a look through some of my books to see if they have pics and easy explanations for you.

Why not?.....that's the fault.

 

[Bradley6969]

Why not?.....that's the fault.

Possibly on the old AM2 on the new one there all wiring faults which you’ve got to prove either short circuit, open circuit, high resistance, cross polarity

 

[Pete999]

Cheers I’ll get it next time

Good luck

 

[ipf]

If a lamp has blown you'll get no difference to any readings, L and N are clear anyway. Are you testing each switch circuit to see if lamps are OK?.....so basic it's weird!