fire alarm 230v supply

[robtroop]

does anybody know where I can find the regulation which states that you have to wire the main supply to the fire alarm panel in min 2.5mm fp200 cable?

 

[telectrix]

probably in BS5839 if anywhere.

 

[Jay Sparks]

does anybody know where I can find the regulation which states that you have to wire the main supply to the fire alarm panel in min 2.5mm fp200 cable?

Yes, you do have to wire the supply to the panel in fire rated cable and in some circumstances, enhanced fire rated cable. I dont know the reg no. but as tel says, it is in the BS5839.

 

[telectrix]

and it does not have to be FP200. you can also use MICC.

 

[Brightspark2]

and it does not have to be FP200. you can also use MICC.

Or FP400...

 

[telectrix]

or red string

 

[Deleted member 72666]

or red string

Only if it's wet tel!

 

[D Skelton]

Don't get why the supply to the fire panel has to be fire rated when the fire panel itsef is fire rated with battery backup??? The most likely point in a property for a fire is the main distribution point (DB) which won't be fire rated, nor will the MCB protecting the fire rated supply cable???

I have a working knowledge of, but steer well clear of installing or maintaining fire systems, still, it makes no sense why it would be a regulation to use fire rated cable to supply the main fire panel. Can anyone quote a specific reg no? I'm happy to eat humble pie if wrong, but I highly suspect that this is another one of those myths!

 

[Phil L]

Clause 26 of bs5839
All cables for critical path signals and mains supply should resist the effects of fire shock and water spray

 

[telectrix]

Don't get why the supply to the fire panel has to be fire rated when the fire panel itsef is fire rated with battery backup??? The most likely point in a property for a fire is the main distribution point (DB) which won't be fire rated, nor will the MCB protecting the fire rated supply cable???

I have a working knowledge of, but steer well clear of installing or maintaining fire systems, still, it makes no sense why it would be a regulation to use fire rated cable to supply the main fire panel. Can anyone quote a specific reg no? I'm happy to eat humble pie if wrong, but I highly suspect that this is another one of those myths!

a fire can start anywhere in the property. doesn't even have to be electrical. think the reg. for using fire rated mains feed only came in a few years ago. also, back in the 80's it was allowed to use T/E for the detector circuits, as long as they were monitored.

 

[Brightspark2]

or red string

Wrong!

You should only be installing the EU harmonized BROWN string now...

 

[Phil L]

Clause 26 has been applicable since the 2002 update

 

[D Skelton]

Hmm, still seems a bit silly to me

 

[Jay Sparks]

Don't get why the supply to the fire panel has to be fire rated when the fire panel itsef is fire rated with battery backup??? The most likely point in a property for a fire is the main distribution point (DB) which won't be fire rated, nor will the MCB protecting the fire rated supply cable???

I have a working knowledge of, but steer well clear of installing or maintaining fire systems, still, it makes no sense why it would be a regulation to use fire rated cable to supply the main fire panel. Can anyone quote a specific reg no? I'm happy to eat humble pie if wrong, but I highly suspect that this is another one of those myths!

The only reason I mentioned the use of fire rated cable as mains, is because I did a quick search on here and this is what the more learned guys that work on fire panels day in day out said. They also said the reg no. but I couldnt remember it. I have never even seen the regs book for fire installs but if the OP had of done a quick search like I did, he would of found his answer and saved time. I also dont do much with fire panels, although I have done bits and bats whilst subbying and I was always told to install FP for the supply to the panel.

 

[D Skelton]

I think the point I'm trying to make is that if there was a fire in the intake room, that fire rated cable to the panel counts for diddly squat. Silly reg IMHO.

 

[7029 dave]

battery back up but it mite of changed so y the fp200 or micc

 

[stranded]

Don't get why the supply to the fire panel has to be fire rated when the fire panel itsef is fire rated with battery backup???!

Say joe public comes in and decides to fire you an alarm panel + system in, happy days. Joe public wires the main in t&e, clips onto joists or similar with t&e clips. Fire starts where the main runs to the panel. False ceiling comes down, cable melts, posing risk to people escaping. Thats how i see it anyhow.

On the other hand, if your a plumber, you wire it to flex and stick a plug on the end according to BS5839lumbers

 

[tazz]

It is quite a simple BS reg. all supplies to fire alarm equipment must be installed in Enhanced cable...this can be FP100 singles...FP200 Enhanced cable...Pyro or swa....all are compliant. They must feed an lockable double poled switched fused spur adjacent to the fire fire control panel. The idea is to give the best possible time period before distruction of the the supply in the event of a fire condition.

 

[High Tower]

Nothing that says that it has to be 2.5mm cable tho!, that's up to your cable calculations, most panels are sub 3a and if its a reasonably short run then it can be 1.5!

 

[Jdsparky]

I think most people just use 1.5 fp anyway as you are wiring the system with it and makes sense, although it has battery back up So should carry on functioning unless they're knackered....suppose it's an arse covering measure and common sense if there is any left in the world

 

[matthunt]

Hi Tazz, you are correct with the double pole FCU and yes it needs to be in fire rated cable but switched fused spur I would question?? unless you mean key switch of course

 

[i=p/u]

We done one recently , we'll pulled the cables for it and supplied the spur/power. And we were told to use double pole / unswitched with neon, but couldn't get 1 with neon... And wired in fp

 

[High Tower]

No Tazz is right it must have means of isolation but switched is unwise. We use a red click grid system All in red, with a fish key

 

[D Skelton]

So I ask again, what the HELL is the point in supplying with FP when there's a lovely melty FCU in line?!?!?

 

[matthunt]

We done one recently , we'll pulled the cables for it and supplied the spur/power. And we were told to use double pole / unswitched with neon, but couldn't get 1 with neon... And wired in fp

MK do them. just build them with yoke etc if memory serves me correctly

 

[matthunt]

So I ask again, what the HELL is the point in supplying with FP when there's a lovely melty FCU in line?!?!?

Metalclad maybe!!

 

[i=p/u]

Yes medal clad you ever been on a big job skelli lol

 

[D Skelton]

What about the plastic OCPD in the metal clad DB? What has the size of the job got to do with things? The fact is that if there's a fire in the intake room, the MCBs will melt whilst the metal clad DB sits there smiling! There is a battery in the fire panel for a reason (many in fact), so regardless of the reg having to be adhered to, I still think it's stupid!

 

[tazz]

Hi Tazz, you are correct with the double pole FCU and yes it needs to be in fire rated cable but switched fused spur I would question?? unless you mean key switch of course

Bs standard is to install a double poled lockable switched fused spur...this is the standard to install

 

[i=p/u]

It's getting your hands on them , no switch is best we could di

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Metal clad and double pole