Functional earth fly leads and rcbos

[Gavin John Hyde]

Whats peoples approach when dealing with the earth fly leads on RCBOs?
Got a board to fit next week and the bits arrived today. So been busy getting rid of packaging and putting bits together ready and checking its all arrived.
Hager say you can trim the fly lead and nuetrals down if needed as long as you use a suitable ferrule or termination. The supply neutrals arent so much an issue as they are quite thick.
The fly leads are so thin and flexible that i think id struggle to find a decent ferrule or crimped connector to go on the end to then go in the earth bar. Anybody got recommendations for ferrules?
Likewise how do you terminate them?
If i have space i will terminate them on their own in the earth bar. Otherwise i terminate with the corresponding cpc.
Keeping each circuits bits together.
Can be bit awkward with a ring final or 10mm circuit though. So in these instances i put them in the earth bar separately. Just got to be careful when tightening that you get a good grip as its easy for them to go down side of screw and be loose.
The new CU i am installing is only 7 RCBOS in a 10 way board so lots of space to make it look pretty.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I use plain uninsulated ferrules in plugs and other accessories when building equipment in the workshop, but I don't lose any sleep if it's not convenient to do so out and about, as most plugs make a sound connection if the wire is suitably prepared. Some connectors like good quality IECs have conductor protection under the screw anyway and don't need ferrules at all. I first started ferruling in plugs after I saw sparks doing it in Germany in about 1989 when I was on a work experience exchange from school.

Re. RCBO FE flyleads I keep blue 0.75 and white 0.5mm² ferrules in the kit as standard.

Re. tinning ends of fine stranded, I don't like it at all. It makes things look neat but over time the solder cold-flows out from amongst the strands under the pressure of the screw. I've seen tinned ends in choc block go completely slack after a year or two of thermal cycling.

 

[Darkwood]

@westward10

Wilko has already pointed to the regulation which does express all fine-wire should be suitably crimped, I haven't the regs to hand but I am going by memory and previous discussion on this matter, the exception is if the connection device is designed to take fine-wire without it been dressed, plug tops are not designed to accept fine-wire undressed so the regulation applies that they would indeed need a uninsulated ferrule crimp.... insulated tend to have issues fitting in the plug top.

If you look at any BS standard goods that come with a terminated flex you should find it has been suitably crimped or has had special terminals fitted be it a drop, a plug top or the internal wiring of a product, you will not see them connected bare anymore into a standard screw terminal, the regulations are across the board, it is now our industry that is lacking in applying this standard and not the manufacturers as used to be 15yrs ago.

 

[Darkwood]

I can upload deta pendant if you like?
But I assure you the flex don't come crimped

Please do, is this a new pendant that hasn't been shortened or doesn't have specific terminations designed for fine-wire, if it is new and does not dress the fine-wire then it is probably in breach of their own BS regulations for such products... I am interested to see your upload as the last Deta I did was dressed cable ends but as they are uninsulated crimps you sometimes need to take them out to see the crimp.

 

[Midwest]

@westward10
If you look at any BS standard goods that come with a terminated flex you should find it has been suitably crimped or has had special terminals fitted be it a drop, a plug top or the internal wiring of a product, you will not see them connected bare anymore into a standard screw terminal, the regulations are across the board, it is now our industry that is lacking in applying this standard and not the manufacturers as used to be 15yrs ago.

What about those MK plug tops, you would have to snip off crimped terminals

 

[Midwest]

A slightly bigger picture

 

[westward10]

@westward10

Wilko has already pointed to the regulation which does express all fine-wire should be suitably crimped, I haven't the regs to hand but I am going by memory and previous discussion on this matter, the exception is if the connection device is designed to take fine-wire without it been dressed, plug tops are not designed to accept fine-wire undressed so the regulation applies that they would indeed need a uninsulated ferrule crimp.... insulated tend to have issues fitting in the plug top.

If you look at any BS standard goods that come with a terminated flex you should find it has been suitably crimped or has had special terminals fitted be it a drop, a plug top or the internal wiring of a product, you will not see them connected bare anymore into a standard screw terminal, the regulations are across the board, it is now our industry that is lacking in applying this standard and not the manufacturers as used to be 15yrs ago.

Whilst I am not disagreeing the Regulation does not state they should be suitably crimped but "suitable terminals shall be used or the conductor ends shall be suitably treated", whatever that implies. Whether this applies to a plug top or fixed wiring, the latter I suspect.

 

[westward10]

This is the connection instructions from a rewirable plug top and it states nothing of fitting ferrules or the like.

 

[Ian1981]

Please do, is this a new pendant that hasn't been shortened or doesn't have specific terminations designed for fine-wire, if it is new and does not dress the fine-wire then it is probably in breach of their own BS regulations for such products... I am interested to see your upload as the last Deta I did was dressed cable ends but as they are uninsulated crimps you sometimes need to take them out to see the crimp.

Back on site tomorrow so I will do
And I use deta all the time

 

[DPG]

Agree with Lucien - it is not good practice to tin the ends of stranded wire if they are being inserted into a screw terminal.

Ferrules in 13A plug-tops? Really?

 

[Ian1981]

Please do, is this a new pendant that hasn't been shortened or doesn't have specific terminations designed for fine-wire, if it is new and does not dress the fine-wire then it is probably in breach of their own BS regulations for such products... I am interested to see your upload as the last Deta I did was dressed cable ends but as they are uninsulated crimps you sometimes need to take them out to see the crimp.

 

[Ian1981]

Volex pendant also must not comply as well then??

 

[westward10]

Comply with what I wonder.

 

[davesparks]

Yes that one where no definition is given for multiwire, fine wire or very fine wire. To me that covers all conductors beyond solid core does it not. Whatever it refers to the requirement is to fit suitable terminals or suitably treat the ends.

The terms are defined in other British standards and if you look at the data sheets for the cable it should tell you what type and class of conductor it is.

 

[Darkwood]

I will do some digging as to which standard cover the likes of deta and volex for pendants etc, but you can visually see the strands are not clamped correctly in those screw terminals, the only positive on it is the fact the current is so small compared to the ccc of that cable that even a poor termination with the fine-wire wouldn't give rise to an issue.

 

[westward10]

The terms are defined in other British standards and if you look at the data sheets for the cable it should tell you what type and class of conductor it is.

IEC 60228:2004?

 

[Darkwood]

Agree with Lucien - it is not good practice to tin the ends of stranded wire if they are being inserted into a screw terminal.

Ferrules in 13A plug-tops? Really?

Not the ferrules with a plastic guide on them, non-insulated ferrules, like a bootlace without the plastic skirt, a lot of products now that come with plug tops that are not molded do use these crimps, the fact that screw terminals will by their nature push apart and splay the fine-wire even when they are twisted usually ending up with a poor termination is enough for me to say it should be done... look at post 40 by Ian - first pic and look how the manufacturers termination has splayed the cores and pushed them up the sides of the screw where they will be not clamped properly and often damaged by the sharp edges of the thread, the space at the side of the thread is clear in the pics and I cannot believe that the majority of manufacturers now crimp in this situation just because they want to as it adds time and money to make the product... I know that pendants are covered by the BS67 (1987) and this references many other regulations but as it's not the cheapest thing to buy it is hard to find any specific info, I believe it is like our regs in that there will be so many areas of compliance that these small things can be lost in the paperwork meaning some manufacturers may be in non-compliance, noted the two brands shown above are budget brands, they indeed may not be breaching any regulations at the end of the day but if is shown that the terminations at factory are not clamping the fine-wire correctly then it should be the case you do not need a regulation to alter how you terminate the product.

 

[PEG]

Lovin' this...it's been a while since there has been an intense debate, over the minutiae of the trade

 

[Wilko]

Lovin' this...it's been a while since there has been an intense debate, over the minutiae of the trade

Since I've started to use ferrules more, I see more of them in use. I must've been ferrule blind

 

[PEG]

Since I've started to use ferrules more, I see more of them in use. I must've been ferrule blind

The 10mm ferrules,are ideal for finishing my nieces plaits and pony-tails off,when she stays,as she kept coming back from school,with her bobbles missing...

Strange,but they seem shorter,every time she visits...