Heating a small church need some ideas please....

[sythai]

Evening Chaps...

One of my customer is a small 1800's church, which is pretty cold.

Been asked if I can offer a solution to their heating.

Details:

- no other services coming in, just electric
- 100amp incoming supply (max demand very minimal at present : 9 x lights, 4 x 13amp socket, 1 x door curtain heater)
- Area to heat 5000(w)x13000(l)x6000 (height to centre of vaulted ceiling)
- no insulation anywhere (brick walls/ timber roof slated above)

It is only used a few times a week for about an hour at time, so they are not really wanting to heat the whole building just enough heat to keep them going for that short period of time.

Any ideas please of the best solution, commercial heating is a bit of a new for me. Will be trying a couple of wholesalers I use to see what they suggest.

They don't really want to go down the storage heater route.

I was thinking along the lines of maybe 4 of these (CFS30), put on a programmer to come on half hour before they arrive:

Commercial Fan Heaters from Dimplex, official site

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated,

Cheers

Sy

 

[Knobhead]

For short time use then you can't beat fan heaters. Just forget storage heaters as a waste of money.

 

[dan86]

Evening Sy
I would say the heaters you've posted are spot on really. Not gonna be used for long periods of time, and a programmer is a great idea.

 

[imago]

One of my customer is a small 1800's church, which is pretty cold.

Been asked if I can offer a solution to their heating.

Things were much simpler in the old days, but I suppose burning catholics isn't very environmentally friendly.

 

[MDJ]

The radiant type heaters similar to patio heaters with the lamp elements are good for churches, obviously they need to be attractive wall mounted types,not the stand up large ugly types haha, I have installed several 3kw type heaters via a contactor and time clock in a church not too long ago and they are very happy with the finished scheme, suprising how they warm the place as well, that church has one wall in it which is from the 13th century as well.

 

[Dohnut]

The radiant type heaters similar to patio heaters with the lamp elements are good for churches, obviously they need to be attractive wall mounted types,not the stand up large ugly types haha, I have installed several 3kw type heaters via a contactor and time clock in a church not too long ago and they are very happy with the finished scheme, suprising how they warm the place as well, that church has one wall in it which is from the 13th century as well.

That's what I was thinking some kind of infrared heater.

 

[Dohnut]

Infrared Church Heating : SunSwitch

Electric Heating Solutions, The UK's number 1 for Electric Heating & Church Heating Solutions - Home

 

[MDJ]

That's what I was thinking some kind of infrared heater.

yup it is the best way for an old church IMO, I think the heaters I used were Dimplex infrareds TBH, done the Job and the customer is delighted with them.

 

[sythai]

I did mention about radiants (have also fitted these before on patios which work great), but they didnt seem to keen.... "just heats the spot your in."

They are after an all round sort of heat, that hits you as soon as you open the door... if you know what I mean.

But saying that I suppose if you have enough radiants and positioned correctly then could be suitable.

I just want offer something that I know is going to be 100% satisfactory for them.

Thanks for all your replies so far,

Cheers

Sy

 

[sythai]

Mike,

What sort of size was the church ?

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Infrared Church Heating : SunSwitch

Electric Heating Solutions, The UK's number 1 for Electric Heating & Church Heating Solutions - Home

Great link that thank you - like the chandelier heating, nice

 

[bertt]

I'm a bit new about forum, sorry but
Try a modern one ELECTRIC FLOOR HEATING .....2013

 

[MDJ]

Mike,

What sort of size was the church ?

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Great link that thank you - like the chandelier heating, nice

good question, I will have to try to work that out TBH, hard to just say a size, bear with me.

 

[Knobhead]

Things were much simpler in the old days, but I suppose burning catholics isn't very environmentally friendly.

I’m pagan. You want a fire?

In a previous job (non electrical) I spent a lot of time in churches. IR heaters are absolutely useless for heating as far as the congregation is concerned. Sit through a 3Hr mass with you’re feet dropping off while you’re head is boiling ain’t fun!

 

[Silly Sausage]

I’m pagan. You want a fire? Yes please
Sit through a 3Hr mass with you’re feet dropping off while you’re head is boiling ain’t fun!

You don't go to church for fun!

 

[bertt]

Think positive. bertt

 

[MDJ]

under floor heating won't work in an old church for obvious reasons, a ridiculous suggestion, unless the parish church are prepared to install a modern floor on an old 200-500 year old concrete slab floor it just won't happen, and anycase listed building control would fight to the death in most cases to stop a floor going in, we are talking about a church 200 years old here not a modern bathroom :earmuffs:

 

[imago]

I would have thought suggesting underfloor heating in a church would be a good thing. It'd focus the congregation on their devotion when the old giffer up front started banging on about eternal hellfire someone could whack up the stat.

Interactive sermons

 

[gesl]

I fitted some ceramic radiant heaters into an old church room a while back, they don't glow red like the quartz ones, which some poeple don't like. I got them from heatstore, if you go to there website there is a calculator to help you design the best heating for the room. I found you need so many convector heaters for effective heating that radiants were the only real option. But they are hard to control and onlybheat what they hit. Your going to have to settle for a best worst case I think. Best of luck.

 

[sythai]

I fitted some ceramic radiant heaters into an old church room a while back, they don't glow red like the quartz ones, which some poeple don't like. I got them from heatstore, if you go to there website there is a calculator to help you design the best heating for the room. I found you need so many convector heaters for effective heating that radiants were the only real option. But they are hard to control and onlybheat what they hit. Your going to have to settle for a best worst case I think. Best of luck.

Is this them....?

3.0kW Ceramic Heater

 

[gesl]

Yep,thems the beasts.

 

[imago]

What about ducted heating? The heater can be mounted somewhere out of the way and the ducting only need be connected when the heating is required. Electric In-line Heater 230 VAC AIR SYSTEMS SVF7KW8

There's plenty of other stuff on there to compare/nose through too.

 

[sythai]

Yep quite a few options.... I'll keep looking, price it all up tomorrow and see what works out the best

Reckon the Vac Air may be a bit out of their price range though :nopity:

 

[ayjay]

ok has the church got wooden pews?
i await your reply

 

[Jimsparky]

What about air conditioning ? It would be pretty quick given a large enough spec

 

[Dohnut]

You really need to be heating the objects with infrared heat and not wasting energy heating the air with blown air heaters.

below is a quote taken from Quote taken from - http://www.ehow.com/about_5348342_infrared-versus-quartz-ceramic-heaters.html

Infrared space heaters for the home emit long-wave infrared radiation, which strikes a solid nearby object and converts that radiation into heat. Infrared is not absorbed by the air through which it travels. With infrared heating, the warmth is directed and concentrated where it is really needed, so infrared heaters are better at targeted or focused heating. Infrared heaters are energy efficient, have no moving parts, heat very quickly, are silent, and are unaffected by drafts.
If you are sitting in one spot for a length of time, an infrared heater aimed in your direction will be a good choice.

 

[ian.settle1]

What type of construction is the building, if it is sandstone by the time you have heated the stone services will be over.

 

[ayjay]

ok so no reply as usual
i installed heating in a very old church uesing tubular heaters screwed under the pews with a wire guard on them all in micc
each line of pews had a 4 gang key switch and neon indicator fixed to the side of the pew at the isle
the oak seat heated up

 

[sythai]

ok so no reply as usual

Give us a chance.... Busy trying to watch rubbish TV here with the Mrs sythai

Anyway wooden pews, but not permently fixed

Thankyou for option anyway.

Cermaic/ radiant heating is looking favourable now as I also just remembered they don't want it to be noisy. So that blows my first idea out the water of the Dimplex commercial fan convectors

 

[Knobhead]

You don't go to church for fun!

I only went to church when I was being PAID!

 

[Engineer54]

Whatever electric heating method this church chooses (and for me IR would be my choice) i hope they have deep pockets to be able to actually use these heaters!! Cause it ain't gonna be cheap, to run them!! Let alone the initial cost of the heaters and having them installed!! lol!!

The only time i step into a church is for Baptisms, Weddings and Funerals!! lol!!

 

[Knobhead]

The only time i step into a church is for Baptisms, Weddings and Funerals!! lol!!

I'm the black sheep of the family, I don't even get to go to them now.

 

[Megavolt]

Air to air heat pump. Fitted with destatifaction fan or fans due to high ceilings. What ever heat source you use I would recommend destrat fan be fitted

 

[Dcf]

What about black heat heating cassettes? Last church I done was with some Swedish stuff I think but I'm sure dimplex do them.churches are a bugger to heat no matter what size.

 

[ian.settle1]

I'm the black sheep of the family, I don't even get to go to them now.

Upset to many of them have you:lol:

 

[bertt]

Hi,
I don’t want to to be bore.
The under-floor heating it is used(where you need). The natural air heat in general is going from bottom(feet) to top(head) on vertical direction. We like to believe the floor is worm(for children, yoga …) and at least we are inside the church. Whatever or not your decision the RCD protection, timer and fire alarm detectors are compulsory.
All the best.
Bertt.
London

 

[sbelec]

Sorry if this is late, how about an electric central heating boiler and a couple raditaors which could be with built in fan? The boiler (6kW?) can be sited in any small room and you just have to get water pipes to and from the rads. I appreciate this may be more of an issue as cable is easier to hide but with any electric heater I believe there is more risk (I know very small etc etc) of fire. Look at Electric Heating company website.
I have been working on one in a club house and it really does work fine.

 

[EHS UK LTD]

Hello Sy, We are Electric Heating Solutions - we work with many contractors within the UK and we can either meet you on the site or talk through some options that the church could use. Our infrared heaters are manufactured by us and come with a 5 year warrantee including the element which is a lot longer than others on the market, our 3 kW heaters are also linear (side by side) so they can be mounted higher and the throw is much wider than the infrared units that others manufacture. Please call us on 0800 978 8571 for more information. Thanks EHS (UK) Ltd

 

[reelectrics]

try bn thermic for pew heating

 

[nickblake]

Love old threads lol you want some thing that glows so ifra red this way the little old dears will think its warmer than it is due to the orange glow

 

[reelectrics]

the higher church has other ideas and prefer under pew discreet heating

 

[danzor]

Wood burners, keep it simple and cheap.

 

[telectrix]

couple of gallons of 4 star. worked for henry VIII.

 

[dan86]

I'm old enough I remember 4 star!

 

[Dave_Handyman]

Don't use blown air in churches unless the fans are very, very quiet. I am a member of a church (yes there are some of us left) and it has thermostatic fans which constantly start up and stop through a service which is very distracting, especially if the sermon is boring. So if the OP is still looking for answers after all this time this is my 'avoid' answer.