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National championship

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It all seemed so easy, wall boxes just nailed to the upright timbers, cables taken in a straight line across the top and the DB enclosure pre fixed for them, no cleaning up either. I didn't have sound on, was it purely a competition based on speed ? If not I'd give them 3 out of 10 for quality.
My smileys won't work either. :)
 
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I spoke with a few American / Canadian sparks over the years and they could 'rough in' a brand new timber house on their own in under 2 days.
Bang boxes (boxes with nails on the side ready to bang home' , romex thrown in with sockets and lights mixed on the same breakers and generally no isolation switches at all any appliances just a receptacle behind to plug into. Only thing that would get a separate isolator was the cooker and air con unit.
They would pretty much drill joists and studs where ever they wanted and safe zones need not apply...
Second fix was all wire nuts and absolutely no testing of anything just switch on and hope for no bangs
 
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Dustydazzler said:
I spoke with a few American / Canadian sparks over the years and they could 'rough in' a brand new timber house on their own in under 2 days.
Bang boxes (boxes with nails on the side ready to bang home' , romex thrown in with sockets and lights mixed on the same breakers and generally no isolation switches at all any appliances just a receptacle behind to plug into. Only thing that would get a separate isolator was the cooker and air con unit.
They would pretty much drill joists and studs where ever they wanted and safe zones need not apply...
Second fix was all wire nuts and absolutely no testing of anything just switch on and hope for no bangs
Click to expand...
Dusty the appliances have have isolation and it’s called the plugs as for the banging boxes just anywhere they want there was a schematic telling them where to put them, yes they drilled holes through the boards which is legal. The only thing I saw that they done wrong was every stud they drilled through should have a nail plate installed so the drywall people couldn’t drive a nail through it. That was so simple and if I did the terminations with wire nuts which I have never had a problem with and I know y’all use terminal blocks I wouldn’t hesitate to turn the power on. It was just so simple and that’s the way it’s done in the US
 
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Megawatt , I have no issue with how you do your wiring.
Infact I quite like its simplicity. Timber frame makes for very quick and easy cable installation.
A very basic electrical code to follow makes installations easy and practical to duplicate on mass scale.
 
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Megawatt said:
That was so simple and if I did the terminations with wire nuts which I have never had a problem with and I know y’all use terminal blocks I wouldn’t hesitate to turn the power on. It was just so simple and that’s the way it’s done in the US
Click to expand...

But you turn the power in without any testing, this seems like madness to us.
How do you know if the circuit is safe to be turned on?
do you know that the earth is connected properly at each accessory before you turn the power on?
How can you know that the circuit breaker will disconnect a fault without earth loop impedance testing?
 
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davesparks said:
But you turn the power in without any testing, this seems like madness to us.
How do you know if the circuit is safe to be turned on?
do you know that the earth is connected properly at each accessory before you turn the power on?
How can you know that the circuit breaker will disconnect a fault without earth loop impedance testing?
Click to expand...
Dave I have never had to do a earth loop impedance test. I said if I done all the terminations yes I would not give it a second thought, if one of my electricians wired it I would be all over that checking their work. Cut the main and branch circuits off check all circuits to ground and turn them on one at a time. I have learned one thing and it seems y’all are covered up with paper work. The very first thing I do is check the bonding of the panel which to me is the most important
 
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static zap said:
Fret not , plenty of hobby books(of US-origin) full for "questionable designs were the starting point for my interest in "Electronics",
110V to earth is so much less risky . For a dry skinned human.
(Similar to how 1kV can jump through clothing ..)
Click to expand...
Staticzap I took electrical safety classes and it don’t take but 1 Milli amp to go across your heart and kill someone. You being in electronics should know all about resistance as dry skin and oily skin
 
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Megawatt said:
Staticzap I took electrical safety classes and it don’t take but 1 Milli amp to go across your heart and kill someone. You being in electronics should know all about resistance as dry skin and oily skin
Click to expand...

Static where I live there is a tower on my property that has 220,000 volts and it will jump out 11 feet and get you
 
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Megawatt said:
Dave I have never had to do a earth loop impedance test. I said if I done all the terminations yes I would not give it a second thought, if one of my electricians wired it I would be all over that checking their work. Cut the main and branch circuits off check all circuits to ground and turn them on one at a time. I have learned one thing and it seems y’all are covered up with paper work. The very first thing I do is check the bonding of the panel which to me is the most important
Click to expand...

Why have you never had to do an earth loop impedance test? Do you have another means of proving the earthing of your circuits?
Everyone makes mistakes, it is human nature, to state that just because i have made the terminations it must be safe to switch on is very arrogant.

I wouldn't say we are covered up in paperwork, but we do carry out testing to ensure that systems are safe and compliant.

What exactly do you mean by the bonding of the panel? I know bonding means something different in the US. Do you test it or just check it visually?
 
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davesparks said:
Why have you never had to do an earth loop impedance test? Do you have another means of proving the earthing of your circuits?
Everyone makes mistakes, it is human nature, to state that just because i have made the terminations it must be safe to switch on is very arrogant.

I wouldn't say we are covered up in paperwork, but we do carry out testing to ensure that systems are safe and compliant.

What exactly do you mean by the bonding of the panel? I know bonding means something different in the US. Do you test it or just check it visually?
Click to expand...
Dave I’m sorry if I seemed arrogant I’m just confident. Yes we all make mistakes, but in the US we have to drive 2 ground rods at least 6 feet apart take # 6 bare wire and terminate it on the neutral bar down to one rod unbroken and # 6 from the first rod to the second rod. I hope you understand if you don’t do that correctly you will have what we call a floating neutral and every single pole 120vac breaker will have as much as 180vac which can and will burn up TV clocks etc. sorry I came across wrong
 
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Megawatt said:
Dave I’m sorry if I seemed arrogant I’m just confident. Yes we all make mistakes, but in the US we have to drive 2 ground rods at least 6 feet apart take # 6 bare wire and terminate it on the neutral bar down to one rod unbroken and # 6 from the first rod to the second rod. I hope you understand if you don’t do that correctly you will have what we call a floating neutral and every single pole 120vac breaker will have as much as 180vac which can and will burn up TV clocks etc. sorry I came across wrong
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Dave The NEC states that the first panel must be bonded with the grounding conductor and any sub fed panel after that you have to isolate the grounded conductors from the grounding conductors. All the paperwork we do is draw a permit for what we are going to do and when you are finished you have to call code enforcement for a final inspection if you pass that the power company will hook up your power.
 
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Megawatt said:
Dave The NEC states that the first panel must be bonded with the grounding conductor and any sub fed panel after that you have to isolate the grounded conductors from the grounding conductors. All the paperwork we do is draw a permit for what we are going to do and when you are finished you have to call code enforcement for a final inspection if you pass that the power company will hook up your power.
Click to expand...
Dave if I had to come to the UK and start doing electrical work I would be lost
 
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davesparks said:
But you turn the power in without any testing, this seems like madness to us.
How do you know if the circuit is safe to be turned on?

They don't.

do you know that the earth is connected properly at each accessory before you turn the power on?

They sometimes will do a continuity check.

How can you know that the circuit breaker will disconnect a fault without earth loop impedance testing?

They don't it is assumed that following wire sizing from the NEC will have calculated all of that. Generally wiring is over sized.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the above is why there are so many electrical fires.
 
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Dustydazzler said:
I spoke with a few American / Canadian sparks over the years and they could 'rough in' a brand new timber house on their own in under 2 days.
Bang boxes (boxes with nails on the side ready to bang home' , romex thrown in with sockets and lights mixed on the same breakers and generally no isolation switches at all any appliances just a receptacle behind to plug into. Only thing that would get a separate isolator was the cooker and air con unit.
They would pretty much drill joists and studs where ever they wanted and safe zones need not apply...
Second fix was all wire nuts and absolutely no testing of anything just switch on and hope for no bangs
Click to expand...
Been there and seen it for real, rough as my Lads' scraggly facial hair, only joking Son
 
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Megawatt said:
Dave I’m sorry if I seemed arrogant I’m just confident. Yes we all make mistakes, but in the US we have to drive 2 ground rods at least 6 feet apart take # 6 bare wire and terminate it on the neutral bar down to one rod unbroken and # 6 from the first rod to the second rod. I hope you understand if you don’t do that correctly you will have what we call a floating neutral and every single pole 120vac breaker will have as much as 180vac which can and will burn up TV clocks etc. sorry I came across wrong
Click to expand...

I understand that, and why you do it. But if I was fitting earth rods for an installation I would install an 8' rod then test it to see what resistance to earth it gives. Then I would add rods or extend that one as necessary to achieve a suitable resistance to earth.
As soil conditions vary from area to area the resistance to earth can be wildly different, so how do can you apply a universal rule of 2 rods 6' apart?

In the past I've achieved around 20 ohms with a pair of 8' rods in one location and elsewhere driven a pair of rods 24' deep in made up ground and just got under 200 ohms.
 
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The NEC code is pretty much a paint by numbers rule book.
The installation method is pretty basic as is the paperwork trail.
It’s a rudimentary system but has to be admired for its simplicity.
They have some very odd terminology and their bonding grounding system is pretty unusual for us as is having mixed lights and sockets on one breaker.
But it’s just how they do it....
 
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