New rewire and fuse board - views on work.

[Debrahim]

I am in the process of quoting a new consumer unit where the client will need a larger consumer unit

She is going for a dual RCD with additional RCBO's for, I will be installing a Hager VML91620CUSPD
She is also getting PV and probably battery storage - this is the reason for the larger unit

Hager also do a change over switch to allow the use of a seperate generator / inverter

This has dual RCD's, and is configurable as well. I still install dual RCD units as I prefer Hager but add 2-3 RCBO's as well

I would suggest you put the lower lights, lower sockets and kitchen sockets on RCBO's

If you had the larger consumer unit (VML90610CUSPD / VML91014CUSPD / VML91620CUSPD) you could remove the lower consumer unit and have all stuff on the same consumer unit

Thanks for the suggestion - I’m going to get sockets and lights on RCBO’s.

The benefit of the board below is that the kitchen extension is all separate,

I posted the code of the consumer unit, but it’s 14 way dual RCD with SPD. The plastic one below is a 6 way dual RCD. (2 spares).

 

[DPG]

Thanks for the suggestion - I’m going to get sockets and lights on RCBO’s.

The benefit of the board below is that the kitchen extension is all separate,

I posted the code of the consumer unit, but it’s 14 way dual RCD with SPD. The plastic one below is a 6 way dual RCD. (2 spares).

Don't put sockets and lights on the same RCBO. Or was that a typo?

 

[baldelectrician]

Thanks for the suggestion - I’m going to get sockets and lights on RCBO’s.

The benefit of the board below is that the kitchen extension is all separate,

I posted the code of the consumer unit, but it’s 14 way dual RCD with SPD. The plastic one below is a 6 way dual RCD. (2 spares).

The regulations prefer (and usually require) a single point of isolation. You currently have 2 consumer units with seperate isolators

The new consumer unit you have will be too small if you are adding PV etc, the max Hager do in a single row is 14 way with SPD (RCBO's), remove 4 ways if a dual RCD unit.

Your electrician could take away one RCD and install 5-6 RCBO's then you will have more space

I do use Hager as the quality is good

 

[Debrahim]

If he has refused then your option is to get a independent spark in to write you a report of his findings. Has we give out advice not hear say, if he takes you to court no doubt he will then you will have evidence against him.send him all copy's of the findings ask the indpendant spark to quote regulation numbers and bobs your uncle antie.
Which court I'm in to day old Bailey.

I’m happy to do this, but I’m worried a random spark will not want to get dragged into this, and I will need to find an ‘expert’ witness.

I’m sure a spark will be willing to give me a statement that a nicely arranged fuseboard does not cause an electro magnetic field and cause a hummmm. Whilst it might not breach a code (isn’t their one about the quality of workmanship) I don’t feel it has been completed with skill - nor do I think an electrician I’m paying this amount of money would produce this rubbish.

What about the NIC.

 

[DPG]

I’m happy to do this, but I’m worried a random spark will not want to get dragged into this, and I will need to find an ‘expert’ witness.

I’m sure a spark will be willing to give me a statement that a nicely arranged fuseboard does not cause an electro magnetic field and cause a hummmm. Whilst it might not breach a code (isn’t their one about the quality of workmanship) I don’t feel it has been completed with skill - nor do I think an electrician I’m paying this amount of money would produce this rubbish.

What about the NIC.

Didn't you say there was no testing carried out? And no certificate? That is a fail straight away.

 

[Debrahim]

Don't put sockets and lights on the same RCBO. Or was that a typo?

Typo,
Going to get 2 RCBO’s, I assume it’s a 6 and 32 amp? But only once this is all sorted I will try find a decent spark get his opinion and then potentially ask him to do it.

 

[Diddy]

Out of interest is this how you leave them ? Would you put your name to it ?

Fair question to my post i suppose. The answer is definitely NO. I am one of the electricians that actually would not have given you an option lol I would offer full RCBO or decline to quote. But as my post was pointing out I am trying to 1. save you money and hassle, 2. what has been fitted is "fine" as long as you get the bits mentioned fixed.
If I were looking for a comparison and even this is a poor attempt by me lol I would say it is like owning a 1990 diesel with full mot as opposed to owning a 2023 diesel which has all the modern conveniences and EXTRA safety features. Both perfectly fine...but one is more fine than the other. (Like I say probably a rubbish comparison but I try to give it a go lol...)
Above that If anybody working with me left that mess then they would be revisiting until it was fixed (regarding the flaws on the install). And if they turned out work like that a 2nd or 3rd time...they would never make the 4rth.

 

[DPG]

Typo,
Going to get 2 RCBO’s, I assume it’s a 6 and 32 amp? But only once this is all sorted I will try find a decent spark get his opinion and then potentially ask him to do it.

Don't buy the stuff yourself. Talk to the new spark first. And remember an electrician may not offer any warranty on customer supplied parts.

 

[richy3333]

Don't buy the stuff yourself. Talk to the new spark first. And remember an electrician may not offer any warranty on customer supplied parts.

Agreed. Id I were walking into this as the 2nd spark I'd want control as to what goes on. There must be someone on here that can help? That install needs testing and putting right.

The install is dog rubbish and an embarrassment to the trade.

I'm with Westward. I haven't fitted a dual RCD board in years and lets face it the Regs are going to phase them out in the not to distant future. It's just my opinion but if you are going to fit one you've got to do all your testing first including earth league etc. I'd be fitting RCBO's particularly if P.V. and car chargers are going to this install in the future.

The OP should report this guy to trading standards.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

@timhoward , @Debrahim , and anyone else who may be interested. Hager helpfully got back to me today about the SPD query:

Good Morning
The surge gets its earth from a clip that bites onto the din rail and then its all earthed up via metal enclosure,
Regards Jim

So good news, it is installed correctly.

 

[Debrahim]

Didn't you say there was no testing carried out? And no certificate? That is a fail straight away.

Yes I was in the house, literally a few meters away, the board was up and wired within 60 or so mins. To Identify the circuits he sent the apprentice, he turned it on, and checked which lights/sockets went on.

There was no testing, for example when you hear the RCD tripping multiple times, there was no megger or equivalent. He went around with a socket tester (the £20 one's - i've got the exact same one) - where they identified, one of the sockets was wired in reverse. As we speak, in my lounge, I have wall lights, and two sep, ceiling lights. I can't have all three on. When I flick the switch, it turns the wall lights off and the light on.

I've asked him for the readings like Zs, Zr, and he isn't providing them. No certificate has been issued. He is refusing to issue one, until he gets full payment.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I've asked him for the readings like Zs, Zr, and he isn't providing them. No certificate has been issued. He is refusing to issue one, until he gets full payment.

He must reg the work with in 28 days
Of completion LBC , but he does not need to provide a test cert until payment is in full, so if there is a dispute then you could argue.

 

[Debrahim]

Agreed. Id I were walking into this as the 2nd spark I'd want control as to what goes on. There must be someone on here that can help? That install needs testing and putting right.

The install is dog rubbish and an embarrassment to the trade.

I'm with Westward. I haven't fitted a dual RCD board in years and lets face it the Regs are going to phase them out in the not to distant future. It's just my opinion but if you are going to fit one you've got to do all your testing first including earth league etc. I'd be fitting RCBO's particularly if P.V. and car chargers are going to this install in the future.

The OP should report this guy to trading standards.

Hi,

So my first step is an EICR. I will go from there. I just don't like liars, the fact he says a nice board creates an electromagnetic field and hum says it all, even he puts something along the lines of it sounds rubbish but is true.... This is in writing, and this man isn't uneducated either!

Also I noticed he didn't use a torque screwdriver, so I said oh I thought that was the norm. Apparently there is no need, and he can tighten it up - I asked him why Hager recommend a Nm, he said it makes them money.... I had a quick look and couldn't find any hager torque screwdrivers... so explored further, apparently they own the biggest company that makes Hager screwdrivers.

I've made it clear I don't want or expect a perfect pristine board, someone posted a fusebox board which looks amazing, I'd be happy just with an okay board. But I'm afraid i'm not happy. I think it is an embarrassment to the trade like you say, i'm sorry to say.

I've been very clear about my situation - i'm by no means loaded, or have money to throw around. However I am not going hungry, (who would have imagined that in 21st century England).

I've realised that they are much cheaper elsewhere, for example TLC charge £28 per RCBO, which can be had for a tenner less elsewhere.

So a spark could keep the shell, and for £250 in materials, I could go full RCBO. Assuming it is the same spark who does the EICR, - roughly what would be the going rate? I.e keep the metal board, remove everything bar SPD, wire the RCBO's up. Would half a day cover this ?

You mention that if i'm potentially going down the car charger route, and PV (which I am) and I understand from comments (fuseboard is good and well priced), would it be sensible to discuss fusebox with the electrician. I would need 3 ways, but as this is a double RCD board, he may be willing to transfer one lighting circuit and one socket circuit - that way I am covered. An 8 way fusebox with SPD (but without RCBO's) seems to be around £60, so as long as he thinks they are good (and I will let him order the stuff as suggested, that could work).

Thank you for the constructive and helpful comments.

 

[Debrahim]

He must reg the work with in 28 days
Of completion LBC , but he does not need to provide a test cert until payment is in full, so if there is a dispute then you could argue.

Actually, the terms of the contract are that on completion I will be issued with the certificate, and then outstanding balance is due.

 

[Debrahim]

@timhoward , @Debrahim , and anyone else who may be interested. Hager helpfully got back to me today about the SPD query:

Good Morning
The surge gets its earth from a clip that bites onto the din rail and then its all earthed up via metal enclosure,
Regards Jim

So good news, it is installed correctly.

Thanks pretty mouth - I'm happy to be corrected, but I was under the impression it already came like that?

 

[Debrahim]

Fair question to my post i suppose. The answer is definitely NO. I am one of the electricians that actually would not have given you an option lol I would offer full RCBO or decline to quote. But as my post was pointing out I am trying to 1. save you money and hassle, 2. what has been fitted is "fine" as long as you get the bits mentioned fixed.
If I were looking for a comparison and even this is a poor attempt by me lol I would say it is like owning a 1990 diesel with full mot as opposed to owning a 2023 diesel which has all the modern conveniences and EXTRA safety features. Both perfectly fine...but one is more fine than the other. (Like I say probably a rubbish comparison but I try to give it a go lol...)
Above that If anybody working with me left that mess then they would be revisiting until it was fixed (regarding the flaws on the install). And if they turned out work like that a 2nd or 3rd time...they would never make the 4rth.

Thank you diddy, so do you agree that the board is a mess, and below what one would expect from an electrician ?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Actually, the terms of the contract are that on completion I will be issued with the certificate, and then outstanding balance is due.

What bad workmanship, tell him get sorted or I will get another person in to sort it and what ever cost will come off your invoice.shake the tree and his plums will fall off.

 

[Debrahim]

What bad workmanship, tell him get sorted or I will get another person in to sort it and what ever cost will come off your invoice.

Indeed, but more worryingly it hasn't been tested. He has tried taking advantage of my mum, knowing that she is elderly and doesn't want the stress etc, into thinking his work is acceptable and that we should pay up.

In his view that board is done and completed, and the balance is due. I've told him i'm not paying, from my reading it definitely doesn't meet regs when I can stick my finger in where the tails come in, and also nothing supporting holding the tails. When I pointed this out it he used some spray foam in it, saying they will support the tails?

 

[Debrahim]

As others have said, red and black hasn't been used for new installations since 2007.

If it was a rewire, then carpets up, boards up, decorating after. Different than just changing the board.
If it was a full rewire, id be checking more than just the board....

Come to think of it.... why is the cover off?

Yes, had to empty the house to the lock up, walls all chased. Flooring opened/cut open.
Had the place re plastered and decorated.

He left the cover off while he went to his van or loo or something like that. I didn't remove the cover for the purpose of that picture.

 

[Risteard]

I've realised that they are much cheaper elsewhere, for example TLC charge £28 per RCBO, which can be had for a tenner less elsewhere.

Good luck with that for a Hager RCBO. Current price for a domestic Hager RCBO would be over £35 from us.

Also if you are intending to add an EV chargepoint to this then you are ignoring the fact that each EV chargepoint must have its own dedicated RCBO which breaks all live conductors, which a typical UK-style single module Hager RCBO wouldn't achieve.

 

[Debrahim]

Good luck with that for a Hager RCBO. Current price for a domestic Hager RCBO would be over £35 from us.

Also if you are intending to add an EV chargepoint to this then you are ignoring the fact that each EV chargepoint must have its own dedicated RCBO which breaks all live conductors, which a typical UK-style single module Hager RCBO wouldn't achieve.

Out of interest - who is 'us'.

Is this the wrong RCBO ? Hager ADA332G 32a 30ma RCBO - https://www.edwardes.co.uk/products/hager-ada332g-32a-30ma-b-curve-rcbo-type-a-ac-and-pulsating-dc-sensitive-?gclid=CjwKCAiAk--dBhABEiwAchIwkZZ0mEjx0iIVv-zzqWULFu3km1cWGJO27E0qIJujj3vWNowd_8gBGBoCS2gQAvD_BwE

In any event I need to find a decent spark, to go further.

 

[SJD]

Is this the wrong RCBO ? Hager ADA332G 32a 30ma RCBO - https://www.edwardes.co.uk/products/hager-ada332g-32a-30ma-b-curve-rcbo-type-a-ac-and-pulsating-dc-sensitive-?gclid=CjwKCAiAk--dBhABEiwAchIwkZZ0mEjx0iIVv-zzqWULFu3km1cWGJO27E0qIJujj3vWNowd_8gBGBoCS2gQAvD_BwE

Edwardes have keen prices on some items, including some Hager RCBOs.
Around £30 is the top (sensible) price for the same RCBO (e.g. CEF), at least in mainland UK.

 

[Risteard]

Edwardes have keen prices on some items, including some Hager RCBOs.
Around £30 is the top (sensible) price for the same RCBO (e.g. CEF), at least in mainland UK.

Which wouldn't be £30 to the customer though. Didn't realise that Edwards had them at that price. Still nowhere near the £10 claimed though.

 

[timhoward]

Is this the wrong RCBO ? Hager ADA332G 32a 30ma RCBO - https://www.edwardes.co.uk/products/hager-ada332g-32a-30ma-b-curve-rcbo-type-a-ac-and-pulsating-dc-sensitive-?gclid=CjwKCAiAk--dBhABEiwAchIwkZZ0mEjx0iIVv-zzqWULFu3km1cWGJO27E0qIJujj3vWNowd_8gBGBoCS2gQAvD_BwE

Is that single pole?

RCBO 1P 6kA B-32A 30mA Type A 1M • ADA332G | Hager UK

Find products, RCBO Electronic 1P 6kA B Curve -32A, 30mA Type A(AC <(>&<)> Pulsating DC and more on Hager United Kingdom

hager.com

If you are getting RCBO's then I would suggest double pole units which do cost more.

It's frustrating that the data sheet isn't clear on this.
EDIT CEF have a close up of the diagram on the side of it which confirms it is single pole.

 

[littlespark]

From the first image posted, the only thing we can say is it’s untidy.

We now know the SPD is correct, taking the earth from the din rail clamp.

We now know it wasn’t a full rewire. The kitchen was already done, so it’s been a lack of communication as to which circuits were rewired. He may have priced the job on so many circuits, then on site found there were extras.

If this board on the picture was to be given an EICR, the worst outcome would be a C3. In which case, there is no requirement to have it redone.
It is not immediately dangerous, nor potentially dangerous.
Visually, the plastic board below is a definite C3, and the one hanging to the side would be C1 if it’s still connected.

Do we know what the job looks like now the board is complete?

 

[grumpyjohn01]

@westward10 my understanding is that they look like this - and I'd expect to see some glimpse of the CPC .
View attachment 105116


That wasn't the wisest move really.

What did he want to fit? Was it Fusebox? Any RCBO board would have been better.
If you supplied the board how did he end up with exactly the right number of B6 breakers for lighting unless you also knew the plan in advance?

The main reason is that the regs encourage us to design to limit cumulative earth leakage and specifically tell us to consider RCBO's in residential premises. (Section 314 and section 531.3.2 )

I have only fitted 1 Hager SPD board and it was supplied with no earth lead just the galv bar which links the 2 earth terminals and is fixed to the metal case by screws or rivets (can't recall)..It seemed odd to me but there was no further info in the paperwork. Connection to outgoing side of mainswitch was the offset busbar as shown in your post.

* EDIT * Have now read the full thread and find I am just repeating what others have said !!

 

[Debrahim]

Which wouldn't be £30 to the customer though. Didn't realise that Edwards had them at that price. Still nowhere near the £10 claimed though.

thanks for the comment but i claimed a tenner less - i.e instead of £30 ish, £20ish in some places

 

[mainline]

thanks for the comment but i claimed a tenner less - i.e instead of £30 ish, £20ish in some places

Me personally would put that Hager Cu on eBay and replace it with a fusebox spd, d/p rcbo one, combine the circuits from that other CU and have done with it.

 

[Risteard]

thanks for the comment but i claimed a tenner less - i.e instead of £30 ish, £20ish in some places

Apologies. I misread. No wholesalers here supplying them at that kind of price though. Not sure how Edwards can supply them at those sorts of prices.

 

[Debrahim]

Me personally would put that Hager Cu on eBay and replace it with a fusebox spd, d/p rcbo one, combine the circuits from that other CU and have done with it.

thanks.

 

[nicebutdim]

From the first image posted, the only thing we can say is it’s untidy.

We now know the SPD is correct, taking the earth from the din rail clamp.

We now know it wasn’t a full rewire. The kitchen was already done, so it’s been a lack of communication as to which circuits were rewired. He may have priced the job on so many circuits, then on site found there were extras.

If this board on the picture was to be given an EICR, the worst outcome would be a C3. In which case, there is no requirement to have it redone.
It is not immediately dangerous, nor potentially dangerous.
Visually, the plastic board below is a definite C3, and the one hanging to the side would be C1 if it’s still connected.

Do we know what the job looks like now the board is complete?

I'd tried to bring similar grounding to this thread two days ago, in several comments that culminated in post #86, but that seemed to fall on deaf ears and I decided to step back.

There's nothing to be gained by people urging the OP to act on the basis of anything other than clearly establised fact and a number of comments blur the lines between preference, opinion and what is clearly stipulated in The Wiring Regulations.

It's obvious to everyone that some aspects of the work carried out are far from ideal, but far from ideal doesn't constitute wrong doing and perhaps everyone (OP included) might be better served if such distinction is made clear.

 

[Mobisystems]

I have been advised that a dual RCD board is bad, and that I should have RCBO's - you guys are the experts, if its a matter of safety, i'm happy to swap.

There has been no tripping. I allowed extra space for the solar/car charger, but thought,

Thank you, however the law says that the work must be carried out with skill and care. The test is whether a ‘reasonably competent member of the profession’ would leave it like that.

Everyone here said it’s sloppy and poor. If you boards look like this then I’d be interested to see ?

He didn’t use a torc screwdriver nor did he do any testing. I know as I was there.

The tails inside are just free floating and hanging - no clip to hold them in place, is that legal?

The cables come through the back via the metal, there is no grommet or plastic to protect the cables against the sharp metal edge again is that legal ?

The socket has a massive hole there, my finger could easily fit in there, is that legal ?

The

You have been advised wrong - Installing dual RCD CU is not a problem at all. Currently we are installing the same Hagger CU in luxury apartments complex. If you want to know about what is legal or not, I think you have to consult a lawer. BS7671 is actually not a legal document.

 

[DPG]

You have been advised wrong - Installing dual RCD CU is not a problem at all. Currently we are installing the same Hagger CU in luxury apartments complex. If you want to know about what is legal or not, I think you have to consult a lawer. BS7671 is actually not a legal document.

I'm surprised you aren't using full RCBO boards in high end projects.

 

[mainline]

You have been advised wrong - Installing dual RCD CU is not a problem at all. Currently we are installing the same Hagger CU in luxury apartments complex. If you want to know about what is legal or not, I think you have to consult a lawer. BS7671 is actually not a legal document.

It depends on the situation, dual rcd boards are not really suitable for some installs.

 

[mainline]

I'm surprised you aren't using full RCBO boards in high end projects.

Yes, I would be interested to know the reason behind that, as I can't think of one apart from the cost.

 

[Dave OCD]

I'm surprised you aren't using full RCBO boards in high end projects.

High end in name and selling price, profit is God.

 

[timhoward]

You have been advised wrong - Installing dual RCD CU is not a problem at all.

I take your point that it isn't 'per se' wrong. But equally we can't say that in all circumstances it's not a problem at all.
Much as before we do a board change we IR test everything to check for faults that would cause an RCD to trip, we'd need to do some cumulative leakage measurements before stating with confidence that a dual-RCD board wouldn't cause issues.
I would maintain it is definitely an unwise choice for some installations, especially older ones.

My personal view is that we're not doing customers any favours by fitting boards that will take out half their house under fault conditions, especially with the rise in outside sockets, driveway/garden lighting, powered outbuildings, hot tubs, EV chargers etc.

Of course whichever RCD technology is used, a major problem is that it never gets tested/exercised and it may not actually do it's job at all if it sits there for many years without exercise. I'd like to think that RCBO's are more convenient for a customer to test at suitable times and fractionally more likely to get tested. That is probably wishful thinking in reality though! But if they have a 2% chance of being tested, a main-switch RCD / split load / dual RCD board is surely pretty much 0%.

 

[ipf]

Don't put sockets and lights on the same RCBO. Or was that a TYPO?

Is that some sort of device that prints out when it trips?

Take Your Pick with Over protection?

 

[Midwest]

You have been advised wrong - Installing dual RCD CU is not a problem at all. Currently we are installing the same Hagger CU in luxury apartments complex. If you want to know about what is legal or not, I think you have to consult a lawer. BS7671 is actually not a legal document.

Not up to dated on the latest regs on RCBO's use in design, but the date of design can sometimes dictate on which of the particular revision of BS7671, is used for the installation.

And whilst BS7671 is not statutory, a lot of other legislation, ESQC, Part P etc, refers to it as a standard to achieve.

 

[Mobisystems]

I take your point that it isn't 'per se' wrong. But equally we can't say that in all circumstances it's not a problem at all.
Much as before we do a board change we IR test everything to check for faults that would cause an RCD to trip, we'd need to do some cumulative leakage measurements before stating with confidence that a dual-RCD board wouldn't cause issues.
I would maintain it is definitely an unwise choice for some installations, especially older ones.

My personal view is that we're not doing customers any favours by fitting boards that will take out half their house under fault conditions, especially with the rise in outside sockets, driveway/garden lighting, powered outbuildings, hot tubs, EV chargers etc.

Of course whichever RCD technology is used, a major problem is that it never gets tested/exercised and it may not actually do it's job at all if it sits there for many years without exercise. I'd like to think that RCBO's are more convenient for a customer to test at suitable times and fractionally more likely to get tested. That is probably wishful thinking in reality though! But if they have a 2% chance of being tested, a main-switch RCD / split load / dual RCD board is surely pretty much 0%.

I was refering to a new circuit design. If tested properly, there should be no faults/leakages. Regarding old installations on my personal experience, RCBO's are more sensitive regarding nuisanse tripping , more often than RCD's. Regarding customers test button tripping the RCD/RCBO's - no one is doing it, even I am not doing it at home.

 

[Mobisystems]

High end in name and selling price, profit is God.

absolutely. cheapest offer always wins.

 

[mainline]

I was refering to a new circuit design. If tested properly, there should be no faults/leakages. Regarding old installations on my personal experience, RCBO's are more sensitive regarding nuisanse tripping , more often than RCD's. Regarding customers test button tripping the RCD/RCBO's - no one is doing it, even I am not doing it at home.

Perfect wiring isn't going to help with cumulative earth leakage of appliances etc.

 

[nicebutdim]

I was refering to a new circuit design. If tested properly, there should be no faults/leakages. Regarding old installations on my personal experience, RCBO's are more sensitive regarding nuisanse tripping , more often than RCD's. Regarding customers test button tripping the RCD/RCBO's - no one is doing it, even I am not doing it at home.

Design is only one aspect of this - none of us know what appliances will be powered within a domestic installation, but we do know that many are intended to leak current to earth. However unlikely it might be that such appliances could cause an RCD to trip, it is considerably more likely to happen when one device protects a number of circuits.

 

[mainline]

absolutely. cheapest offer always wins.

Do these hager split boards your fitting have spd/afdd ?
I'm still trying to work out why a full rcbo Cu isn't fitted, as the cost aspect shouldn't be a lot of difference between hager split cu/fusebox rcbo one.

 

[mainline]

RCBO's are more sensitive regarding nuisanse tripping , more often than RCD's.

There shouldn't be any difference with regard to the rcd side of the rcbo compared to a stand-alone rcd, In fact it should be less so due to the more likely it is that the rcbo would have less circuits to contend with.

 

[DPG]

I was refering to a new circuit design. If tested properly, there should be no faults/leakages. Regarding old installations on my personal experience, RCBO's are more sensitive regarding nuisanse tripping , more often than RCD's. Regarding customers test button tripping the RCD/RCBO's - no one is doing it, even I am not doing it at home.

Can you explain your comment about RCBOs being more sensitive to nuisance tripping?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Do these hager split boards your fitting have spd/afdd ?
I'm still trying to work out why a full rcbo Cu isn't fitted, as the cost aspect shouldn't be a lot of difference between hager split cu/fusebox rcbo one.

From memory, the difference in price between the 2 brands for dual RCD is minimal (Hager actually being cheaper if you need 100A RCDs IIRC). Once you start adding RCBOs and SPDs the price difference becomes obvious though, and fusebox wins by some way.

A recent estimate for 9 circuits put fusebox RCBO + SPD £115 more than Hager 2RCD (no SPD), so there can be a bit of a difference in price between them.

Fusebox are ok, it's what I offer as my budget choice, but Hager is better quality IMO. I give my customers the choice, and let them decide

 

[mainline]

From memory, the difference in price between the 2 brands for dual RCD is minimal (Hager actually being cheaper if you need 100A RCDs IIRC). Once you start adding RCBOs and SPDs the price difference becomes obvious though, and fusebox wins by some way.

A recent estimate for 9 circuits put fusebox RCBO + SPD £115 more than Hager 2RCD (no SPD), so there can be a bit of a difference in price between them.

Fusebox are ok, it's what I offer as my budget choice, but Hager is better quality IMO. I give my customers the choice, and let them decide

How much is a hager 2rcd with spd ?




Fusebox is the go to for me, at least for now, as it suits the price range vs quality and bits are readily available.

I'm lucky in the respect in that I don't have to deal with any customers, it's “more this is what we want doing” what do we need to order.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

How much is a hager 2rcd with spd ?

I don't have a breakdown of costs, but suprisingly my last estimate came in a tenner cheaper than a fusebox 2RCD w/ SPD. I think this is because I (almost) always fit boards with 100A RCDs. The same fusebox board with 80A RCDs is a lot cheaper than one with 100A RCDs. But you don't generally know what the main fuse will be until you've pulled it, so for me it's gotta be 100A.

 

[Gazza66]

Hi,

I’d appreciate views on the fuse board.

B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted at ImgBB

Image B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

It’s been completely rewired and I’m unhappy with the quality.

I’ve messaged him about it and described the board as a complete mess, and poor workmanship ship. For entry for the 25mm cables and 16mm tails he used the knock out but didn’t bother using the plastic cable holder - which is a couple of quid.

Also with the cables coming in through the back, there is no plastic or anything so the metal of the board could rub against the metal of the board.

his reply is below

a. - there is a reason why cables shouldn't be perfectly arrange in the fuse box because it could create electromagnetic field resulting in humming sound in the fuse box- you would probably think that's ridiculous ! But it's a fact!


Quite frankly I’m shocked, would you be happy with the work, paying over 4k? And supplying the board all second fix items etc? So basically 5k?

He has also created 5 additional lighting circuits downstairs, I live in a three bed terraced house.

1) for 6 down lights in a 2.5m x 2m room.
2) just the ground hallway light.
3) the lounge dinner, two lights and two wall lights.
4) a porch light and floodlight.
5) under stairs light simply 2 lights.

His reply is that it is is better… but then it’s all on a dual rcd so it doesn’t really help in my opinion.

We agreed the whole of downstairs on a circuit except the hallway on a separate one. (He said that was best practice.

I’ve attached photos and the pieces that I believe should go there. One is too big.

Old colours and new colours? Not a rewire but partial rewire. DB looks like a hand grenade was thrown in it. ‘Electromagnetic field resulting in humming’ - lost for words on that but crying with laughter. Lights down 1 cct, lights up 1 cct, lights outside 1 cct - that’s how I’ve always done it..!