No power to whole house after water fell on to cooker???

[HappyHippyDad]

A friend has just called as his daughter in Belfast (many, many, many miles from me!) has just lost all power after water fell into the cooker/hob.

I straight away thought it has to be a main RCD somewhere, but I cannot see one in the pictures they have sent and they don't 'think' there is one.

I realise the main switch is switched off on the BS3036 fusebox, they have said it is on now, but still no power anywhere, although I am getting them to confirm if they really mean everywhere as I can see a separate consumer unit doing the shower, so I have asked them to find out if power to the shower. Also, the old black BILL unit supplies the garage, so i have asked them to see if power in the garage.

update... no power to absolutely everywhere (including shower and garage)

Perhaps the main cut out? Really unlikely, but possible.

 

[James]

If the main fuse has failed, the test button on the rcd will not work.

If it does work, then the fault must be after the fuse/meter.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Sometimes the meter display can be an indication of power and you get the little red flashes if its drawing power.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

If the main fuse has failed, the test button on the rcd will not work.

If it does work, then the fault must be after the fuse/meter.

Test button doesn't work.

 

[James]

If I had to, I would bet on dno fuse failed.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Sometimes the meter display can be an indication of power and you get the little red flashes if its drawing power.

Good thinking! I'll ask.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I'll update when I know more ?

 

[James]

Obviously the cooker circuit needs checking before re energising

 

[ferg]

Looks like no display on the meter. If so no power to it.
So Either a power cut or the main fuse has decided to jack it all in and shuffle off this mortal coil.

 

[SparkySy]

I have seen it happen before where the 1361 has been old and weak and the 3036 failed to disconnect the fault before the 1361 blew!

 

[-Matt]

Probably a co-incident, and there is a power-cut, get them to check with neighbours.

I would be surprised if water spilt on top of a cooker would trip an RCD, let along a physical fuse.
Unless we are talking a substantial amount of water......

 

[loz2754]

Not liking the look of melted bitumen below the main fuse. Could have been overheating for some time, the cooker incident maybe took it over the edge.

 

[snowhead]

Maybe check what size fencing wire is in the Cooker fuse.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Probably a co-incident, and there is a power-cut, get them to check with neighbours.

I would be surprised if water spilt on top of a cooker would trip an RCD, let along a physical fuse.
Unless we are talking a substantial amount of water......

neighbours light are on.

 

[Dave OCD]

They might be on a different phase ?

 

[cloverman]

I would go with James and say Main dno fuse ! Although like Dave has pointed out that is another possibility ! There is a fault on the supply at Lisburn depends whereabouts they live it may have some effect.
I know you said belfast but wondered if that may just be a general comment

 

[freddo]

I would be surprised if water spilt on top of a cooker would trip an RCD, let along a physical fuse.
Unless we are talking a substantial amount of water......

I've seen water in cooker controls take out a 45a 1361. insulation tested cooker, all seemed ok. Put in new fuse. Started checking each part of the cooker, got to the second hob control which revealed the fault in a fantastically loud way. I must have jumped 2' off the floor!

 

[James]

I've seen water in cooker controls take out a 45a 1361. insulation tested cooker, all seemed ok. Put in new fuse. Started checking each part of the cooker, got to the second hob control which revealed the fault in a fantastically loud way. I must have jumped 2' off the floor!

Brown trousers moment!?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Thanks for all the replies so far guys. It's great that we can fire these questions up, and electricians all over the country put their minds together and come up with possible answers/solutions. Pretty damn cool really?.

I'll update when I know more.

 

[Baddegg]

Never seen on ego personally but did a job last year where the 3036 had failed to go and took out the main incomer instead, the DNO chap had never had to change one either, consumer unit was changed pretty soon afterwards ?

 

[telectrix]

last "whole house dead" i was on, L-N 0V, L-E 240V. hence all L and N conductors in the house were "live", nothing worked. I isolated at Main Isolator and called Scottish Power. was a failed N joint where customer's supply was tapped off underground in street. SP started digging at 6pm. supply back on by 8pm.

 

[pc1966]

The 3036 should be selective with the DNO fuse, certainly at a 2:1 sort of ratio (30A and 63A or more BS88) to faults of 0.5kA or so. But I would have doubts if the PFC is very large given the modest break rating of the 3036, and even more fundamentally the possibility that someone has already changed the 30A wire for whatever but of mid-sized copper to hand.

Personally I would always change for the Wylex MCB replacements if a CU change is currently unaffordable, so much less trouble to reset than Joe Public trying to rewire a fuse (often in the dark) and no risk of wrong size replacement wire.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Well, it was the 100A cutout fuse! New fuse and all back working.

 

[UKMeterman]

If that was the case I would be saying dear Mr Landlord please do a full test ASAP, and ask to see the previous test certificate.

 

[UNG]

Over my 40+ years in the industry I have seen the DNO fuse blow without the local OCPD blowing or tripping a handful of times. The last time was about 7 - 8 years ago an old rubber cable gave up, it shorted took the DNO fuse and caused a fire and left the 3036 30A fuse intact
Most of the times it was a rewireable cut out fuse that blew so the whole service head was changed

 

[pc1966]

Looking at the plots for BS 3036 fuses in the regs (p365 & p366) by time you get to 0.1s the curves are looking like "constant I2t" region (they are sloping down at 2 decades of time per decade of current on the log-log scale) and using the tabulated values for current at 0.1s blowing time I get:

• 20A = 260A * 260A * 0.1s = 6.8kA A2s
• 30A = 20kA
• 45A = 81kA

Looking up one of the data sheets I have for Mersen BS88 LV fuse links they have the pre-arcing I2t for a 100A fuse as 14kA so in fact a 30A rewireable fuse is able to get a 100A HRC fuse beyond the point of no return on an adequately large fault.