Question: Worrying incompetance or just minor niggles in the last minute rush??

[mjanesuk]

Moggy/Biggs - thanks, have been out.

I seemed to be heading in this direction as well - getting someone in to look at the system. There is lost I think is wrong, but what I dont have is the experience to come up with realistic suggestions of how to fix/change/redesign what needs attention.

Given the fact that my efforts to check these guys out did not work last time (and I was being cautious) how do I make sure I get someone with the same pride in their trade as many of the posters on this site?

I live in Buckingham, if anyone has any suggestions.

I wil post some pics tomorrow. I know nothing is ever easy, but from what I have read over the past few months and seens a few other installs, mine should have been a piece of piddle (12m wide roof, 20 ys old good condition, S facing, no obstructions at all, open loft space, easy scaffold & access.....

I need to look into the issue of fixing dia and rafter width for building regs. - I did not entirely get it, but that makes it even worse if that is the case.

 

[mjanesuk]

I have just been reading through previous posts on fixings and now get the 4x screw dia min. edge distance.

I just saw reference to using noggins if the roof is trussed. This was in the context of doubling up structurally unsound rafters and maybe unloading the truss nodes.

My question is therefore should I be asking for noggins or 2x4's screwed either side fo the rafter truss. Or does it not matter in this case. My assumption is that batterns should not be problematic as long as they dont happen to coincide with a node.

 

[liquidity]

Your brackets are inadequately fixed!!

There is an issue with rafter/screw sizes. I believe building regs require that the screw diameter should be no more than 25% of 50% of the rafter width, 4.6mm in your case. The various solar regs require that the minimum screw size is 6mm. The way we get round skinny rafter is to batten either side of the rafter in the area of the fixing with 12 inch battens, effectively widening the rafter. we can always get the 2 fixing screws into even a skinny rafter by careful placement of the bracket and slight angling of the screws. I use 6mm screws from screwfix with a hex shaped head rather than the 8mm ones Krannich supply as these are way too destructive on this rafter thickness.
Of course doing all this takes time.

Why is an electrician working on solar who doesn't like heights and isn't insured to work at height!!!

Any place I can find the regs online about bracket spacing, screw sizes, etc?

 

[moggy1968]

bracket spacing depends on your windlift calculations from the BRE guide.
screw sizes I forget but it's either the DTI guide or MIS which conflicts with the guide in the building regulations

 

[liquidity]

Hmmm.... my installer used 1 bracket per rafter across the entire width of the rails. The rafters are spaced at 400mm and are 35mm wide. I believe he used 2 5mm screws per bracket. The brackets look to be Schucos as per Schuco - Roof anchor - pantile 10.1/2 - Segen No extra blocks of wood were added to "widen" the rafters. Location is West Sussex in a reasonably level suburban area about 5 miles from the coast. Should I be worried? They're all still there after Thursday's storm!

 

[mjanesuk]

Well, one bracket ever 400mm spaced rafter still sounds better than my one every OTHER 600mm spaced rafter. Need to put my glasses on though, at 1st I thought you'd said your guy had used 2.5mm screws instead of 2 x 5mm's.

 

[moggy1968]

wouldn't agree with the above. If we say that using too big a screw weakens the substance of the rafter then weakening every one is rather less favourable than weakening every other one

 

[mjanesuk]

Just went into the loft to put back all of the insulation that the guys rolloed into a pile and forgot!!! to put back.

There appears to be enough 'spare' DC cable to do another install! Whish is probably the reason they had to go early the 1st day as the ran out of DC.

I have taken a couple of pics, not sure how much you can see. I was under the impression from other posts that the DC (if not all cabling) should be kept to a minimum (if not just for cost presumably).

Is this another item to add to my 'fix it please' list? I dont like the untidy look of it and the fact that I could probably trip over it when pottering about up there.

 

[mjanesuk]

Fair point. I had not looked at it that way.

Moggy - What is your take on noggins vs rafter batterns?

And the cable spaghetti I just posted?

 

[Yanman]

Parmesan?

 

[mjanesuk]

No thanks, always thought it smelt like sick.

A quick doodle of the setup with the three series and DC runs (though these are inside the loft, at least they got that right)!

Portrait on one MPPT, landscape on the other.

 

[VMan]

Just went into the loft to put back all of the insulation that the guys rolloed into a pile and forgot!!! to put back.

There appears to be enough 'spare' DC cable to do another install! Whish is probably the reason they had to go early the 1st day as the ran out of DC.

I have taken a couple of pics, not sure how much you can see. I was under the impression from other posts that the DC (if not all cabling) should be kept to a minimum (if not just for cost presumably).

Is this another item to add to my 'fix it please' list? I dont like the untidy look of it and the fact that I could probably trip over it when pottering about up there.

View attachment 9159View attachment 9160

Absolute mess, someone could easily mistake some of this cable for the satellite cable and cut into it, especially if they cant follow the cables! I would get this tidy'd up, and cant believe they didn't slide the cable up the felt its 6 inchs lower than the hole they made!!
I get the feeling these guys don't plan on being in the solar industry next year!

 

[mjanesuk]

I assume that the panel connections should not be poking out like this. Do you usually just cable tie them to the rails?

 

[sambotc]

wow that mid clamp is close to the end of the panel! That wiring is a mess aswell, they should be labelled and laying on the insulation isn't the best of ideas either!

 

[VMan]

I assume that the panel connections should not be poking out like this. Do you usually just cable tie them to the rails?

View attachment 9166

Also agree with sambotc, midclamp is very close to edge of panels.
Ye should be tied to rail, this is going to wear through within 25 years of rubbing against them gritty tiles!

 

[Earthstore]

Do you all think that it would be unfair to name and shame this company?
Would you also be kind enough to post some more photos, AC/DC isolators, Generation meter etc, So far what I have seen and read, this is how NOT to complete an install, still the good news is you have you have the high rate FIT tariff, but it does need sorting out.

 

[mjanesuk]

Ah, somthing else to worry about then. In that case here is one of the whole lot. Superficially (the guy netx door said) "looks good".

 

[mjanesuk]

Earthstore,

No DC isolator as SMA say the 4000 TL does not need one (has one internally). AC has one just to the right of the Sunny Boy on the loft, then cable follows siol vent boxing down to utility room. Pics below. The ceiling hole is not them! But note the lack of blank plates in the small CU (ours was full). But the good news was "they only cost 15p" - which is good to know when you forked out £10K.

I need to give them a chance before I name. Just have tired fingers from typing out my defects list. I do still have the final payment, and (as said above) a paid in full reciept.

 

[Worcester]

@mjanesuk

Definitely incompetence.

from all you've written, I wouldn't bother getting them back.

Keep the 3k and a get a good local installer to come and fix it.

At 3k we'll come from Worcester to fix it and do it properly for you!

The system need taking off the roof.

The top pair of rails are too close to the edges of the panels (top and bottom)

The bottom row generally shouldn't be fixed on the short edge the way round this is to cross rail it.

There should be at least two screws per fixings.

Noggings or adding to the width of the rafter - either should suffice.

The DC cable should be clipped at regular spacing, and needs trimming and fixing.

Depending on what the actual model of the panel is 1 string of 10 modules may be over voltage for the inverter, so would need to be two strings of 5, the landscape panels x 6 should go on the second mpp tracker.

Looks like either a schuco or a grey import 4000TL, it probably also hasn't been properly configured for the UK, so that will aslo need doing / checking, and if it's been generating for > 10 hours will need a bluetooth link and a GridGuard code to do it.

I condemned this installation that was fixed by the customers roofing contractor as it was a brand new roof and they didn't want us to screw to it - I refused to issue the MCS certificate until it was fixed to my satsifaction - we supplied the s/s tray for the roof and installed the cable, they bodged the fixing, note the number and spacing of cable ties that we put in ... if they'd let us do what we had propsed they'd actaully have had a better jobdoen in the first place and it would have cost them less - next time they'll let us do it!


We've just done the snagging list on over 200kWp for that client (which we installed in just 3 weeks )and the only thing he could come up with was that we could have trimmed some of our rails shorter ...

Also - don't let them take the scaffold down yet - deny the scaffolder access to your property until it is fixed.

Hope that helps.

Don't pay the balance ! Get someone else in that knows what they are doing.

 

[moggy1968]

dreadful bit of trunking work as well!!
strictly speaking the innner insulation of the cable shouldn't show. Thats more a reflection on the shabbiness of the trunking. how hard would it have been to get it to butt up against the meter!?

That DC cable run is the worst I have ever seen on any installation, and thats saying something. Don't they know there's a shortage of cable!!

It should be supported (i.e. clipped) along it's length. As it is it also presents a significant trip hazard.

I can't see the DC isolator but you aren't allowed to have cable suspended from the screw terminals so if they haven't used compression glands and/or clips thats another breach.

I would be interested to know where they put the warning labels for the DC cable, maybe they just wrote it on a bit of card and rested it on the insulation as well!! You are required to have DC warning labels along the cable length so it can't be confused with satelite cable etc