Torque screwdriver !!!!!

[BruvDunk]

Anyone ever feel the need for one?
Or been required to purchase one for an inspection....

Is it a world gone mad or are they worth it.

 

[telectrix]

waste of good beer funds.

 

[Andy78]

I've never had one and not been asked if I have. Lots more to a good termination that torque alone.

If you are buying, my mate has a Wiha set and that seems good when I've used it. Have heard lots of bad reports of the Armeg ones for snapped bits under torque.

 

[BruvDunk]

Just curious as I've never needed one as feel becomes second nature after time.

Just wondered if anyone had been asked to produce one for any reason as I've heard them being mentioned by the ole house bashers for being part of Elecsa / NICEIC etc.

 

[telectrix]

wondering when niceic will offer a 1 day course @ £????? on how to use a torque driver.

 

[FatAlan]

I've never had one and not been asked if I have. Lots more to a good termination that torque alone.

If you are buying, my mate has a Wiha set and that seems good when I've used it. Have heard lots of bad reports of the Armeg ones for snapped bits under torque.

Must admit that I’ve bought an Armeg set. One CU installation and so far, one of the blades has broken already with hardly any use. Shame really as I’d like to buy British if I can...assuming these particular blades are made of Sheffield’s finest!

 

[telectrix]

more likely beijing;s finest.

 

[Flanders]

I have looked at them several time but the cost puts me off , We get inspected every year and never been ask to produce one or been ask about them. I Just tighten up the connection with the correct bladed screw driver its not hard.

 

[Deleted account]

Nic advised it. So I got one. Never use it.

Everytime I used to use it I checked after with normal screwdriver.
I've cut out the middle man.

 

[The Ghost]

The Armeg I bought lost the dial at the bottom and blades snapped. At the Elex show I spoke to the guy from Armeg and he suggested it was because we are all using the wrong size of blade! I said yes very likely I have only had forty years experience still working out how to use my battery drill! So to be fair they did send me a new handle with dial on anyway. Got the Wiha one much better for setting torques and so on. Never use them though, maybe sometimes...if someone is looking or I want to impress the young ladies.

 

[FatAlan]

I can never find the manufacturers instructions with the torque settings.

 

[Wilko]

I have a set (where's my tin hat?). I was surprised at the lack of torque suggested for clamping tails into isolators. For example, BG state 2.5 Nm for their isolators and 3.5 Nm for their RCDs. It turns out one Wilko Twist is about 4 Nm

 

[BruvDunk]

I have looked at them several time but the cost puts me off , We get inspected every year and never been ask to produce one or been ask about them. I Just tighten up the connection with the correct bladed screw driver its not hard.

No-one was saying it was hard! Just wondering if people have been asked to show them for inspections. After 30 odd years Ive never had any issues and played with all sorts of switching gear up to and including 33KV.

 

[Midwest]

I got a wiha torque screwdriver and spoke about at my assessments, that made the assessor forget the question he was about to ask me, so it has been worth the £100 I paid for it 4 years ago. Use that cunning plan every year

Needs calibrating, and has teeny weeny figures, which I can't read without a magnify glass & night sun torch.

 

[FatAlan]

The Armeg I bought lost the dial at the bottom and blades snapped. At the Elex show I spoke to the guy from Armeg and he suggested it was because we are all using the wrong size of blade! I said yes very likely I have only had forty years experience still working out how to use my battery drill! So to be fair they did send me a new handle with dial on anyway. Got the Wiha one much better for setting torques and so on. Never use them though, maybe sometimes...if someone is looking or I want to impress the young ladies.

I would counter Armeg’s argument that normally if you use the wrong size screw driver you either can’t get the torque to do the job, it doesn’t fit or it chews the head. The driver shouldn’t break.

 

[MJPD29]

I bought an armeg one out of impulse after saying they are pointless and I can now confirm that the are pointless rarely ever comes out of the van

 

[mhar]

I have a wera one. There interchangeable bit set works well on Hagar and SBS, slips on BG though when approaching the required torque but thinking about it most drivers slip on the BG screw heads

 

[davesparks]

I’ve got a torque screwdriver and two torque wrenches. All of them bought for doing various mechanical jobs on the landrover.
I’ve used a torque wrench for bolted connections in a panel board a couple of times, but never for small connections at a DB or CU.

There are times when correctly set specific torque is important, but not in the work most of us are doing on a daily basis.

My big objection to the use of torque screwdrivers is the lack of knowledge of how to use and look after them correctly.

 

[BruvDunk]

I’ve got a torque screwdriver and two torque wrenches. All of them bought for doing various mechanical jobs on the landrover.
I’ve used a torque wrench for bolted connections in a panel board a couple of times, but never for small connections at a DB or CU.

There are times when correctly set specific torque is important, but not in the work most of us are doing on a daily basis.

My big objection to the use of torque screwdrivers is the lack of knowledge of how to use and look after them correctly.

Nice... Only time I use my torque wrenches is on me Motorbike as I'm delving into mechanical territory

 

[FatAlan]

Just bunged an email to Armeg to see if they are aware of this thread. In general I love their kit, been using their wood beavers which are very effective for going through joists.

 

[Flanders]

No-one was saying it was hard! Just wondering if people have been asked to show them for inspections. After 30 odd years Ive never had any issues and played with all sorts of switching gear up to and including 33KV.

Sorry never ment to come across as a dig ☺I was having ago at the silly regulation
We are registured with NIC and its never come up during their inspections

 

[Midwest]

My big objection to the use of torque screwdrivers is the lack of knowledge of how to use and look after them correctly.

This is a learning place, so don't keep all yourself.

 

[rolyberkin]

I always use a torque driver, have an armeg and an wiha set, if the manufacturers of DB's state that a torque driver should be used then surely that is what we should do, I have wrecked many an armeg blade and the wiha one normally rips ---- out of terminal screws but hey ho!

 

[Andy78]

I always use a torque driver, have an armeg and an wiha set, if the manufacturers of DB's state that a torque driver should be used then surely that is what we should do, I have wrecked many an armeg blade and the wiha one normally rips **** out of terminal screws but hey ho!

Do any manufacturer's instructions state that a torque driver must be used ? I have seen lots that state recommended torque values but not how they are to be achieved.

 

[rolyberkin]

Yes they all say it, just read the blurb.

 

[rolyberkin]

Okay they don't say you are to use a torque driver but how else are you going to achieve it, being devil's advocate here we all bang on about how you mustn't mix manufacturers mcb's, what is the difference between torque settings and pick and mix mcb selection, is one worse than the other?

 

[Andy78]

Okay they don't say you are to use a torque driver but how else are you going to achieve it, being devil's advocate here we all bang on about how you mustn't mix manufacturers mcb's, what is the difference between torque settings and pick and mix mcb selection, is one worse than the other?

I'm sure I'm capable of tightening something up without a device to tell me I'm there. I have measured my usual connections against a torque driver many times and my wrist seems to be calibrated ok. I'll keep checking at regular intervals though.

Cards on the table, I'm not against torque drivers on principle, but I am against the way they are being advocated as the be all and end all of cable termination these days.
It seems that the use of torque drivers is being brought up regularly, but they are only any use if the basic techniques and skills of cable dressing, prepping, terminating and checking are adhered to. Try it yourself. A badly terminated cable is easily pulled out even if tightened with a torque driver.
It all seems a bit like non combustible consumer units to me, a method to try and patch over falling standards without addressing the system that is producing the hazards that necessitate these patches.

 

[sparkdog]

Don't think I could trust one to make sure the terminals were tight.

 

[ipf]

It all seems a bit like non combustible consumer units to me, a method to try and patch over falling standards without addressing the system that is producing the hazards that necessitate these patches.

…...and another money making method, jumping on the bandwagon of said 'falling standards'...…...of both quality of work and materials.

 

[FatAlan]

Perhaps someone should tell the colleges and training centres. All the screw heads and treads on their kit always seem stripped to bits.

 

[rolyberkin]

My method is that use a normal screwdriver to tighten the screws and then check with a torque driver, 9 times out of ten my torque driver will click, some boards will not allow you to torque without stripping the screws.

 

[ipf]

Just a point. I don't have any particular problems, but...

Pozidrive screw heads, especially in DB's have always provoked plenty of thought, as far as I'm concerned. It seems to me, a case of 'the quicker the better'. Hence the use of a torque driver coming into play. It seems an invitation to use battery drivers, which I don't agree with.
Why are the majority of final connections, at socket outlets, cooker units, switches , etc flat head screws?
What are the general opinions on which cause most trouble with damaged heads due to misuse, over tightening, etc?

 

[Midwest]

Think most of the CU's termination screws are the SL/PZ screwheads, much better fit & less damaged heads with the appropriate drive.

 

[Kevy]

I have a Draper Torque Screwdriver, with its selection of bits, which is kept in my toolbag for use where a specified torque is required. Lewden switchgear has the torque figure printed on. If it’s printed in the manufacturers instruction leaflet but not on the switchgear then I’ll print a label and affix to the inside of the board

If an ‘issue’ arises where your workmanship is being questioned at least you can say the thingee was torqued to the specified value

Mechanics have been using torque wrenches for years as over (or under) tightening a bolt or set screw can cause problems i.e. wheel nuts/bolts, cycle set heads, water pumps etc. If they did something up by feel alone and something started leaking then warranties would be voided along with them being out of pocket

Incidentally, the Wera VDE screwdriver buts fit in the Draper handle. Just saying

 

[Pete999]

I have a Draper Torque Screwdriver, with its selection of bits, which is kept in my toolbag for use where a specified torque is required. Lewden switchgear has the torque figure printed on. If it’s printed in the manufacturers instruction leaflet but not on the switchgear then I’ll print a label and affix to the inside of the board

If an ‘issue’ arises where your workmanship is being questioned at least you can say the thingee was torqued to the specified value

Mechanics have been using torque wrenches for years as over (or under) tightening a bolt or set screw can cause problems i.e. wheel nuts/bolts, cycle set heads, water pumps etc. If they did something up by feel alone and something started leaking then warranties would be voided along with them being out of pocket

Incidentally, the Wera VDE screwdriver buts fit in the Draper handle. Just saying

Para 2 , as long as your torque drive is within calibration, I wonder sometimes how many Electricians, DIs think that because they use a torque driver everything will be Honky Dory, it's like MFTs they are only as good as the last calibration certificate says it is, in my opinion.

 

[Ernie Shaw]

No doubt some one will have to callibrate annually

 

[suffolkspark]

Another dissapointed armeg customer here... 2 years on the case doesnt hold the bits properly and ive snapped a handfull of blades! & its seldom used! Calibration also costs the same as a new handle!

 

[EbolaSideRoom]

I’ve said this before in another thread;
I had the VDE Wera torque set and knackered the handle TWICE. On both occasions I was trying to achieve a torque of +\-2Nm in an Earth terminal bar in an insulated consumer unit. So I gave up with it. I now use it as a GP driver set for “stuff” when the toolbag is elsewhere.
I replaced it with the abovementioned Armeg set, which set me back the same price as a replacement handle for the Wera set. It hasn’t let me down yet, but it only ever gets used for terminations in consumer units or devices where a specific torque is referred to in the destructions. To add to that I’m otherwise a big fan of Wera screwdrivers.

 

[BruvDunk]

Who would think such a simple post would cause such a divide..
Loving hearing different peoples opinions !

Theres obviously room for the manufacturers to come up with a better torque driver if it all heads the way it seems to be..

 

[jeremy]

I think all my turney stuff is now WERA. I'm doing BT power unit swaps, and we can get audited at any time. I find myself using the torque stuff more out of habit than that I have to.

 

[GBDamo]

Have an Armeg set on the van, it is very shiny.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I have a Wera interchangeable screwdriver set which comes with two handles?
Have thought about swapping one of the handles for the torque wrench adapter, but £70 is a bit much for something I’ve never used.

 

[Soi disant]

Okay they don't say you are to use a torque driver but how else are you going to achieve it, being devil's advocate here we all bang on about how you mustn't mix manufacturers mcb's, what is the difference between torque settings and pick and mix mcb selection, is one worse than the other?

Assuming someone isn't such a klutz that they can't spot busbar alignment or type incompatibility, mix'n'match means you lose type approval, and then there's 536.4.203.

As for torque settings, I guess you have to decide what you understand by "Manufacturers’ instructions shall be taken into account".

 

[Mike Johnson]

Yet another resurrected thread, your insomnia is getting worse.

 

[telectrix]

 

[Soi disant]

Yet another resurrected thread, your insomnia is getting worse.

Ah - but this time an update with a valid point about a regulation which was new and not in force at the time of the thread ?

 

[Strima]

One of the bits of kit I'm installing at the minute is made in Mexico and the DC power studs are #10-32 with a recommended maximum torque setting of 2.26Nm.

I haven't snapped one yet as I'm using my torque driver but the customers own installation teams have snapped two off meaning each unit has to be sent back to the factory on Mexico to be repaired...

Glad I bought it now as it could get a bit costly snapping them off...

 

[Mike Johnson]

Prefer this:

 

[Soi disant]

One of the bits of kit I'm installing at the minute is made in Mexico and the DC power studs are #10-32 with a recommended maximum torque setting of 2.26Nm.

No minimum?

Just do them finger tight, then, and you'll be bound to be below the maximum.

No, but seriously - that's a madly exact figure, arrived at by some brain-dead conversion process with no concept of ± to some sensible metric value. If accuracy down to 10‾² Nm was really necessary then they'd have to specify adjustments for temperature. I bet that any value between 2.15 & 2.35 would be fine.

the customers own installation teams have snapped two off

Are they from Mexico too?