Vans, diesel engines & DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF)

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Discuss Vans, diesel engines & DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF) in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Midwest

Midwest

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This subject has been mentioned before (wirepuller talked of it), but it won't hurt to mention it again (Fawlty Tower Style!) for those thinking of a new van (or car).

I've been looking for a new used vehicle; was thinking of getting some sort of Chelsea tractor, one of which was a Discovery Sport (DS). After reading about it on a particular forum, it appears to have an issue with the above.

To meet Euro 6 emissions (I'll stand to be technically corrected), a DPF is used to trap some of the nasty stuff. In the DS's case, its a bit of a challenge, and requires some mileage driven at a certain speed to do so (as do most such vehicles). Put in a short journey when it is attempting a regeneration, and turning off the car dumps some fuel in the sump, causing another issue, oil dilution.

Too many failed regenerations, will require vehicle servicing or even possibly repairs. The oil dilution is another problem.

So those buying/leasing new diesel vans would be ok, if they do some mileage, those doing short journeys might wish to reconsider the fuel choice for their new vehicle.

This guy had to sign a waver when purchasing a new diesel Ford Connect (Zedman);

Service interval - Page 222 - Discovery Sport Forums - https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5379&start=2210
 
one of the many reasons that i look after my 2004 hiace. it'll last me out and is big enough to cart my mortal remains to the council tip.
 
All diesels with DPF's will eventually go wrong unless blasted down the motorway your engine needs to be at over 2500 rpm for at least 20 mins so the DPF can go through its clean cycle. Otherwise they get blocked with soot, crud and stop working.

* if your just pottering around local *Do not buy a diesel*.

* I'd say they need blasting up motorway or duel carriageway at least once a week for over 20mins think of it as cleaning your car. You will notice the difference after should be smoother more responsive and quieter. Diesels respect you for thrashing them once in a while.

* All my vehicles have been diesel. Nothing wrong with diesels the new diesels are cleaner than petrols.

* I stick half a litre of super unleaded petrol in an empty tank then fill up with diesel once a month. It cleans out the engine and cleans out the injectors.

* Diesel is not a fuel it's an Oil designed by Rudolph diesel to run on peanut oil. Diesel fuel you buy contains unleaded to help it combust when compressed.

* Best diesel engine in my opinion is izuzu 1.7ddti. I had two Astravan years ago you could run them on anything vegetable oil, rapeseed oil, etc ( although Saab 1.9tdi engine is a beast in the newer Astravan just be prepared to keep an eye on gearbox. (Can't handle torque).

I love the smell of diesel in the morning it smells like victory..

"Blow that DPF into the stone age son"
 
Yep, its no big issue IF you are aware of it.

It would be great, if the vehicle told what it was doing, giving you a chance to allow it to complete its cycle, bit like when a computer is doing an update.

In the DS case, the 1st service from new is/was 21000 miles. The vehicle has a system, whereby the amount of regeneration is calculated. It has/had a countdown timer on the dash to advise the owner on next service. Early on, owners were taking their vehicles in for a service (before the 21k), and were told it doesn't need servicing yet & the trip was reset. Some had the engine oil independently analysed, and it contain damaging metals etc.

I've been into LR dealerships, pretending an interest in a new DS. I asked about this issue, and the salesperson didn't know about it, either they don't know their product or are protecting it.
 
I would avoid putting any form of solvent (petrol) into your diesel as this will effect the lubricating characteristics of the diesel.

Petrol tends to sit on top of diesel and due to the increased use of ethanol has a greater water content.

Every few tanks fill up with the good stuff and take it for a rag down the local motorway for 20 minutes.
 
Ive never had a problem at all sticking a little petrol in a diesel engine like I already said I stick it in first on an empty tank. Cleans engine out a friend of mine is a mechanic who does the same i do it once in a blue moon.

Never had an issue with a diesel engine other than a sticking EGR valve on a Audi A3 1.9tdi which I blanked off in the end and deleted it and got code deleted.

Keep an eye out for diesel taxi drivers doing it before a full tank. A friend of mine works at a Tesco petrol station and he says taxi drivers regularly stick a splash in.

Diesel lubricates your engine as it's an Oil I've never had an issue sticking a drop of petrol in once a month.

Cheers
 
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I’ve got a Chevrolet Orlando 2.0 diesel (GM Vauxhall engine) Any reviews on this car (or any Chevy diesel) will say DPFs are a problem, however I think the problem is lack of education. I think a lot of people are having problems because they don’t understand what’s happening with the engine and multiple ignored DPF re-gen attempts cause engine light to come on and limp mode.
My cars signals when it’s doing a re-gen are increased idle rpm, increased fuel consumption. Also if I stop the engine during a re-gen, the cooling fans come on, so I know next time I drive it, I make sure it has a blast up the motorway.
For the past several months I’ve been adding Millers Eclipse diesel additive every refill and the car does not do as many DPF re-gens, it seems to make the diesel burn cleaner and hotter. Also I avoid supermarket diesel.
I’m also aware of the issue of diesel being dumped in the sump,so I will have oil changed every 6000 miles. Also the correct oil for Diesel engines with DPFs is ESSENTIAL, as incorrect grade can cause DPFs to become excessively clogged.

I only have a diesel car for towing the caravan, otherwise I’d have a petrol.

DPFs arnt a problem....you just have to understand them better.
 
KEV 1 N said:
I
I’m also aware of the issue of diesel being dumped in the sump,so I will have oil changed every 6000 miles. Also the correct oil for Diesel engines with DPFs is ESSENTIAL, as incorrect grade can cause DPFs to become excessively clogged.

DPFs arnt a problem....you just have to understand them better.
Click to expand...

That was the issue early on for the DS, picking on them, but I suspect other manufacturers have similar problems.

As said owners were booking their cars in for service, only for dealers to say your car doesn't need service until 21000 miles. JLR issued a service bulletin in July 17, (attached). For some, the damage may have already been done.
 

Attachments

  • Discovery Sport Oil Dilution Bulletin.pdf
    2.9 MB · Views: 10
Apparently its peoples driving style. I me who doesn't have to drive at least 40 miles every time we get into them. Hope your new VW isn't an Adblue addict!

Is it just my end or is this web site a bit slow & choppy this afternoon?
 
Some manufacturers,Citroen being one, use an automatic fuel additive system which makes successful regen of the DPF more likely even when driven by Auntie Edna. It works by reducing the burn temperature required to clear the DPF.
But at the end of the day those who use Diesels for stop/start short trips are going to get an expensive shock sooner rather than later.
 
You can buy DPf cleaner from Halfords I'm not sure of its abitites. But apparently it can unblock a DPF...?

I have unblocked a DPF on a previous van I had just bought by running it on higher grade diesel fuel. The vehicle was a 6 gear Vauxhall van got her into 6th on motorway dropped down to 5th for 10 minutes then down to 4th for 10 minutes got the revs high peeled back on the speed though. Slight splutter from the engine and smoke trail for 5 mins then clean and no light.

I don't think that van had been on the motorway in months was running fine after that.

* my biggest peev isn't the DPF's it's the EGR whoever thought of that needs locking up it takes exhaust gas then dumps all the $hit back into your inlet manifold those out there who have ever cleaned one out will know.

** Best thing to do to a DPF is cut it off burn all the guts out with a blowtorch put it back then delete the fault code it throws up. Thats what mechanics have been doing for a long time now because there up to £1000 to replace. Up to a £10'000 fine if caught doing that now.

*** I think you can only weld 400mm away from a DPF otherwise it's a MOT failure it might be less my mechanic told me at christmas time..?

**** I have a heat shield that's rubbing on my exhaust which needs just tacking up out the way

Cheers
 
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i once had a 2L petrol Transit. 22mpg at best.
 
which reminds me. at 190,000 miles on my van, need to check the oil. last dipped 2 years ago.
 
"Would never, ever buy a car with a diesel engine!"

And why is that..?


Quote " New Honda Diesel

There are four trim levels and it meets the latest Euro 6 emissions rules, making it cleaner than many petrol engines.

It's a smooth operator — particularly on motorways — and drives and handles well with ample pulling power and a precise six-speed manual gearbox. It goes from rest to 62 mph in 9.8 seconds and on to 125 mph.

Fuel consumption is its trump card with a claimed average of 80.7 mpg. Prices start from £20,120 for the Civic S, a premium of up to £1,300 over the petrol versions."
 
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telectrix said:
i once had a 2L petrol Transit. 22mpg at best.
Click to expand...
Best transit I ever drove was the 3.0 V6 MK1 in bomb disposal livery including blues and twos... That was very shouty and screamed GET OUT OF MY WAY!!!

d6da95ea3d6af6631f3c84b07d900c92.jpg
 
Diesels replaced petrol engines for regular use for a while now. Remember using diesels for works vehicles in the late 80's.

Taxi's (local journeys) use them, even my milkman uses one (noisy -------), hundreds of similar uses. It's only the recent emissions restrictions that have caused problems.

The Jaguar F-Pace uses the same Ingenium engine as the DS. It doesn't have the same issues as the DS. It has a traditional
longitudinal engine configuration, whereas the DS has a transverse configuration. The associated emissions gubbins, is therefore differently installed, and doesn't cause the same probs.

So it can be done, without having to drive round the M25 once a month.
 
If your carrying goods or pulling goods etc diesel are far better in low down torque. They may not have the nippy ness of a petrol but for mpg and longevity of an engine they are far better.

* my old A3 a 52 plate 1.9tdi 110bhp I was getting over 50mpg and she eventually did 270'000 miles before I sold her.

* I saw a mercedes Benz vito van on a job last year with 340'000 miles on her the van was rotten rear door etc but engine still ploughing along and it went straight through its last mot.

* I would rather buy a used diesel with 100'000 on it than a low mileage diesel that's had a stop start driving life.

* A mechanic once told me once you get past 100'000 miles your just breaking them in keep changing the oil and filter regularily and they will go forever. (Liquid Engineering)

* I think older diesels are better than the new ones *non common rail engines there is to much wizardry on them these days to keep up with EU regulations alot more can go wrong ££££££ etc
 
Tes369 said:
"Would never, ever buy a car with a diesel engine!"

And why is that..?


Quote " New Honda Diesel

There are four trim levels and it meets the latest Euro 6 emissions rules, making it cleaner than many petrol engines.

It's a smooth operator — particularly on motorways — and drives and handles well with ample pulling power and a precise six-speed manual gearbox. It goes from rest to 62 mph in 9.8 seconds and on to 125 mph.

Fuel consumption is its trump card with a claimed average of 80.7 mpg. Prices start from £20,120 for the Civic S, a premium of up to £1,300 over the petrol versions."
Click to expand...

Perhaps I should've mentioned I'm a bit of a petrolhead.

Don't much care how clean it is - especially as I only do a few thousand in the car every year.

62mph in 9.8 seconds isn't what I want!

80mpg - again don't care. The extra cost involved in buying and maintaining a diesel won't be recouped with my mileage.

They sound like tractors - yes even the new ones.

They smoke and smell.

Yes they have a load of torque, but driveability is terrible.
 
Some years ago had Astra 1.7 diesel van, filled with unleaded and did about 10 miles before I realised as it was a bit sluggish. Drained petrol, filked with diesel, and no problems. Did it again some time later, had 3/4 tank of diesel, filled with unleaded (yes I know) travelled about 20 miles, getting slower and slower until it finally stopped. Garage towed me back, drained, refilled and off we went, did another 37,000 miles with never a problem, still going strong when we parted company.
 
Percyprod said:
Some years ago had Astra 1.7 diesel van, filled with unleaded and did about 10 miles before I realised as it was a bit sluggish. Drained petrol, filked with diesel, and no problems. Did it again some time later, had 3/4 tank of diesel, filled with unleaded (yes I know) travelled about 20 miles, getting slower and slower until it finally stopped. Garage towed me back, drained, refilled and off we went, did another 37,000 miles with never a problem, still going strong when we parted company.
Click to expand...
The old Astra Isuzu engines were bullet proof. I had an oil pump pulley give up doing at 95 on the outside lane of the M1. All I did was replace the oil pump, re-time the engine and cranked her over. She saw me for another 50,000. Only reason she went was I needed a bigger car, my Mrs should say no more often... ;)
 
On the izuzu engines the oil cooler goes on them as well as the head gasket. It's the impurities in the water which eat away at a head gasket.

* I wouldn't mind having the 1.9tdi saab engine newer shape Astravan they go like the clappers

My current Van is the 1.3cdti fiat engine 6 speed Astravan mpg is spot on. Engine can be a bit loud and it's known as a bit of a oil drinker I would rather it had the izuzu 1.7ddti lump though.

Cheers
 
It's the impurities in the water which eat away at a head gasket.

easily sorted. empty your condenser tumble dryer into rinsed out milk bottles ( the 4pt. plastic ones from supermarkets etc.). use the water to fill your van's cooling system. add antifreeze and corrosion inhibitor and it'll last forever.
 
A Simple New Exhaust Technology Could Save The Diesel Engine

As market trends threaten to put a premature end to the diesel engine, researchers at a British university have developed a miraculous saviour

40df3a80d8825ddbc9b746c02aea5b71.jpg

Researchers have developed a technology that could virtually eliminate the problem of harmful nitrogen oxides from combustion engines, suggesting the possibility of a combustion-powered car that barely emits more harmful particulates than an EV.

British boffins at Loughborough University have reportedly reached such a successful stage in their project that its new technology is nullifying 98 per cent of toxic diesel NOx emissions even before being tuned for best results. That’s like throwing an engine together in your garage and discovering that it’s immediately producing 600bhp.

8029254ae535c10a8858a123bf8475ec.jpg

The latest revisions to diesel engines haven't been enough
ACCT, or Ammonia Creation and Conversion Technology, uses Ammonia to separate nitrogen and oxygen. The molecules of the latter are attached to hydrogen instead, leaving no waste products other than nitrogen, which makes up around 78 per cent of Earth’s atmosphere, and common water.

At present, NOx particles, which are produced predominantly by diesel engines, especially when hot, are linked to the premature deaths of around 71,000 people across the continent every year. Four years ago the AdBlue system was introduced; a urea-based solution that helped exhausts burn off much more of the particulate matter. ACCT knocks AdBlue into row Z.

1217da7e691e3743cf1b93ad7b098423.jpg

There's life in the old dog yet!
In early tests, the simple and cheap ACCT prototype was fitted to a diesel Skoda taxi, which focused on stop-start urban driving. While the standard, Euro 6-compatible AdBlue system captured 60 per cent of the particulates, the un-tuned ACCT hit 98 per cent right off the bat.

AdBlue’s effectiveness is limited by climate and operating conditions, but ACCT is said to work at almost peak efficiency at all times. You can imagine how valuable this sort of thing could be in a European car market that has seen diesel sales plunge 20 per cent.

ab93cd7afd69991fe277dd7ebbb33df2.jpg

Earth Dreams could soon get much dreamier
Car makers, component manufacturers and even large fleet operators are apparently besieging Loughborough University to try to get their hands on the tech as soon as physically possible, according to Autocar.

The engineering team thinks it should be easy enough to integrate the technology into cars as they are today, and it could be in production within two years “with the right support,” by which they presumably mean money, and access to car and parts makers’ production processes. This could theoretically draw a lot more life out of combustion, easing the rush to electrify everything…

Source: Autocar
 
I had one lke this in a boat many years ago

Kelvin-Marine-Engine.jpg

except it was a 2 cylinder, so 2 of these stuck together.
Easy to start-just open the decompression levers, crank the handle til you built up a bit of revs, then pop the handles down one by one...never failed.
 
Midwest said:
I've been looking for a new used vehicle; was thinking of getting some sort of Chelsea tractor, one of which was a Discovery Sport (DS). After reading about it on a particular forum, it appears to have an issue with the above.
Click to expand...

Problem is that a lot of those chelsea tractor are brought for nothing but the half a mile school run and maybe the odd local journey. DPF work well when your regularly doing long motor way miles but short low speed driving fecks them, but to fair they should be making buyers aware when buy the cars.
 
Midwest said:
I've been looking for a new used vehicle; was thinking of getting some sort of Chelsea tractor, one of which was a Discovery Sport (DS). After reading about it on a particular forum, it appears to have an issue with the above.
Click to expand...

Problem is that a lot of those chelsea tractor are brought for nothing but the half a mile school run and maybe the odd local journey. DPF work well when your regularly doing long motor way miles but short low speed driving fecks them, but to fair they should be making buyers aware when buy the cars.
 

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