12500 new electricians required. Does this mean even lower wages

[Steve000]

Over 12,500 electricians needed for new technology skills demand - The Electrotechnical Skills Partnership - https://www.the-esp.org.uk/latest-news/over-12500-electricians-needed-for-new-technology-skills-demand/

This is what an industry training organisations TESP is saying, bit of course they would . Self interest supersedes all other considerations.

What do you think, there is still little or no work in the nation's capital

 

[Pete999]

Over 12,500 electricians needed for new technology skills demand - The Electrotechnical Skills Partnership - https://www.the-esp.org.uk/latest-news/over-12500-electricians-needed-for-new-technology-skills-demand/

This is what an industry training organisations TESP is saying, bit of course they would . Self interest supersedes all other considerations.

What do you think, there is still little or no work in the nation's capital

It will mean lower standards judging by some of the training going on around the country

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I got sent this text a little while ago:
Hi
Looking for a Multi-trade electrician/ plumber for TOMORROW (Friday) for on going work based in EC2 - shoreditch.
MUST be able to: Fix fans, Check electrical shower heads and potentially replace, fix Hot water dispenser , Replace Ballast, Door closure finish
Rate14.28 per hour
Call Maya on 02039170690 ASAP!
Kind regards
Maya - Daniel Owen

 

[telectrix]

that's good. £14.28 as a spark, £14.28 as a wet-pants, that's
£28 .56/hour.

 

[mattg4321]

What's an electrical shower head? Is the element built into the shower head rather than an enclosure on the wall?

 

[Steve000]

How can any one live on that rate. What do they want an electrician or a plumbers mate. I find I'm having to dropbox examples of my work because of a mistrust between agency's employers and electricians. Is it because many impersonators are circulating that we all have this dummed down attitude. It makes me want to walk away from the industry forever and try something really smart like sell cars. I met a guy in Australia that was fitting frameless shower screens. He mounted 4 brackets and applied silicone seal, I helped him out on a few days
He would turn over 8-10K a week. There's something wrong somewhere

 

[Red Tony]

Have we had a 'what are you on PH thread?'

 

[Steve000]

What's an electrical shower head? Is the element built into the shower head rather than an enclosure on the wall?

It's ambiguous, that's what an electrical shower head is.

 

[Red Tony]

I agree Steve......when the living wage is pushing a tenner an HR us sparks should be on £20 ph basic.

 

[Steve000]

So do we need another 12500 sparks in Industry. Because the net effect is lower wages, diminishing workplace rights and conditions.

 

[Dustydazzler]

12,500 min wage jobs ready in waiting

 

[Squid]

From the report it seems they don't require electricians for some of the roles, ex wife's son is going to Uni to do a degree and hopefully a masters in AI, that's going to be a growth market.

Me personally I will be running courses in survival skills and how to kill and kin another human for food for when the apocalypse happens durine to climate change and when the Chinks blow up all the nuclear power stations they have built around the world.

 

[Dustydazzler]

This whole industry is going sideways

I know gardeners earning more than me now and they work 8-2 most days

 

[Squid]

How can any one live on that rate. What do they want an electrician or a plumbers mate. I find I'm having to dropbox examples of my work because of a mistrust between agency's employers and electricians. Is it because many impersonators are circulating that we all have this dummed down attitude. It makes me want to walk away from the industry forever and try something really smart like sell cars. I met a guy in Australia that was fitting frameless shower screens. He mounted 4 brackets and applied silicone seal, I helped him out on a few days
He would turn over 8-10K a week. There's something wrong somewhere

So you must have earn't a few K out of it?

 

[mattg4321]

The industry is slowly consuming itself.

1. Biggest problem - lowering of standards. Public not being educated on the importance of a safe, quality job. NIC, Elecsa, Napit, Stroma etc should be running ads on TV etc.

2. Unqualified builders, kitchen/bathroom fitters etc shouldn't be allowed to touch electrical work. Should be a criminal offence with a minimum fine of £5000 IMO if you're not qualified and not providing certification. The scam who it's reported to and gathers evidence should get half that money to incentivise them.

3. Poor quality training in many places for youngsters coming into the trade. Too much emphasis in the big firms/agencies on thrashing through jobs as quickly and cheaply as possible.

4. Influx of uncontrolled cheap labour. Problem in many industries. The elite don't want to see this end as it eats into their profits.

5. Misleading advertising companies should be banned or have to have prominent warnings. Checkatrade et al are nothing more than paid advertising masquerading as regulating/standards authority. Many more people have heard of them though than NIC, Elecsa etc!

 

[Dustydazzler]

First up Scams don’t give a rats about safety, they are in it like pigs at a trough to make money

Most home owners ain’t got a clue what part pee is

They want a cheap job done and don’t ask questions

 

[Steve000]

We don't need nanny state monitoring from profiteering organisations such as JIB ECA NIC NAPIT don't need it. Just need qualified card bearing sparks that stand alone as responsible for the good or bad work with appropriate penalties for dangerous or less than spec compliant work. A builder is gonna think twice about trying to pretend to be a spark if is house and his savings are on the line. Why all the bs so called industry bodies taking cash of the poor old spark in the name of compliance or standards. 12500 reasons to think about a new way of making a living

 

[PEG]

I don't know what everybody is flapping about.....out of that supposed 12500,8000 are going to do more harm,than good,and that will require top men,to sort out

All my life,i have seen these "we need x number of xxxx's"

The truth is,we might....but getting,training and paying them,always seems to be the cause of it never happening

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Standards today:
Wiring up some PIRs in Student accommodation.
Me:
You’ve given me 3 core flex, we need 4 core.
Perm Live, Neutral, Earth and Switch Live.
Response:
Nah, just put some black tape round the Earth core and that’s the Perm Live.

 

[Steve000]

So what are you using for cpc

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So what are you using for cpc

Doesn’t need one as there’s no earth terminal on the PIR.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Standards today:
Wiring up some PIRs in Student accommodation.
Me:
You’ve given me 3 core flex, we need 4 core.
Perm Live, Neutral, Earth and Switch Live.
Response:
Nah, just put some black tape round the Earth core and that’s the Perm Live.

Yep seen this loads of times

Just as good seen them regularly wired in t&e with the bare cpc used as the N

 

[Zerax]

...
2. Unqualified builders, kitchen/bathroom fitters etc shouldn't be allowed to touch electrical work. Should be a criminal offence with a minimum fine of £5000 IMO if you're not qualified and not providing certification. The scam who it's reported to and gathers evidence should get half that money to incentivise them.
...

For working with gas you MUST pay an annual fee to Gas Safe (there's only one scam)... that's the law... but this does not prevent some very poor workmanship. If you cause an explosion, Gas Safe are NOT responsible for anything. It's the HSE that will be asking you questions... Crazy crazy system !! We don't want to see this in the electrical industry.

The answer is to have far harsher penalties for poor workmanship and/or causing injury etc... put the onus back onto the person doing the work... this will encourage the DIY-er to outsource and encourage professionals to keep up to date with skills and knowledge.

What does a certificate really mean ??

If you have an MOT on your van, does it mean that it's roadworthy ??

...just sayin'

 

[Zerax]

...
3. Poor quality training in many places for youngsters coming into the trade. Too much emphasis in the big firms/agencies on thrashing through jobs as quickly and cheaply as possible.
...

The main reason for training youngsters is to keep the NEETs figures down (Not in Employment, Education or Training). It has nothing to do with properly training them... It's a legacy of the Blair/Brown years.

I was chatting to a girl who was working in my local a while ago (no, not like that !!)... she was at college studying 'small animal management'... Full time !! For 2 years !!

 

[Steve000]

Doesn't need a cpc because there's no earth terminal?

 

[Steve000]

Doesn't need a cop because there's no earth terminal? Are you serious.

 

[Steve000]

:-(

 

[Dustydazzler]

The main reason for training youngsters is to keep the NEETs figures down (Not in Employment, Education or Training). It has nothing to do with properly training them... It's a legacy of the Blair/Brown years.

I was chatting to a girl who was working in my local a while ago (no, not like that !!)... she was at college studying 'small animal management'... Full time !! For 2 years !!

Funny you should mention that , I do a part of part time security and event work and often chat to a lot of the students who are working the bar , doing the tickets etc.
I spoke to one guy who graduated after 3 years at university om 'small animal management' and now works at petsathome on £8.21 per hour.
Does it really take 3 years at university to work at petsathome ??

 

[telectrix]

Doesn't need a cpc because there's no earth terminal?

maybe not, but the cable up to the fitting needs a cpc.

 

[Pete999]

maybe not, but the cable up to the fitting needs a cpc.

Basic stuff Tel, shame some "Electricians" don't know this.

 

[telectrix]

just fitted some LED strip lighting under cupboards in a kitchen. 3 core flex from FCU, cpc blank terminated in driver with no E terminal.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

What can you do?
I haven’t worked since 9th of Jan, this job is half an hours drive, £230 a day, though the hours are a bit longer than I would like, 10 and a half.

 

[holychihuahua]

In Scotland they tried to split new build / refurb commercial electrical installation into two trades. Hanging tray and cable pulling was to be a new semi skilled trade on sparky's mate rates. Lots of industrial action put a stop to this.
In medievil times everybody belonged to a trade guild. You could not just set up and do a trade outside of a guild. Though i dont suppose there was much work for a sparky in those days.

 

[holychihuahua]

A few years back in Scotland a UK national electrical / mechanical company tried to split electrical installation work in commercial new build and refurb into two trades. Hanging tray and cable pulling would be a new grade of electrical fitter trade paid at sparky mates rates. Industrial action on sites across Scotland put a stop to this plan.

Way back in medieval times trade guilds controlled each trade. You could not just start working in a trade if you were not a guild member. We should go back to this law.

Doing it yourself in your own home, charity work for friends and family could still be permissable. However a non guild member found doing work for cash in any other situation would face a jail sentence.

 

[rapparee]

Personally I've never had it so good.

If you feel under threat from some young wet behind the ears 5 week wonder then maybe you need to take a look at yourself.

 

[Pete999]

I got sent this text a little while ago:
Hi
Looking for a Multi-trade electrician/ plumber for TOMORROW (Friday) for on going work based in EC2 - shoreditch.
MUST be able to: Fix fans, Check electrical shower heads and potentially replace, fix Hot water dispenser , Replace Ballast, Door closure finish
Rate14.28 per hour
Call Maya on 02039170690 ASAP!
Kind regards
Maya - Daniel Owen

And there was I thinking the Middle, Far east was the place for cheap labour.

 

[Pete999]

Personally I've never had it so good.

If you feel under threat from some young wet behind the ears 5 week wonder then maybe you need to take a look at yourself.

Disagree rapparee, we should be looking at the way Electrical Trainee and the like, get qualified, and given Carte Blanche to work for payment in the first place in the first place.

 

[Rpa07]

From the report it seems they don't require electricians for some of the roles, ex wife's son is going to Uni to do a degree and hopefully a masters in AI, that's going to be a growth market.

Me personally I will be running courses in survival skills and how to kill and kin another human for food for when the apocalypse happens durine to climate change and when the Chinks blow up all the nuclear power stations they have built around the world.

Careful with language like that in a post @SWD - some people can rightly get offended by the phrase ‘Climate change’ !

 

[LightGEN]

"small animal management"

....herding cats?

 

[rapparee]

Disagree rapparee, we should be looking at the way Electrical Trainee and the like, get qualified, and given Carte Blanche to work for payment in the first place in the first place.

Obviously a proper spark will run rings around these people.

If there is an extra 12500 greenhorns, then that will give the boys who are currently on the bottom rung a chance to step up to foremen and supervisory roles.

As regards to the Electrical Trainee system the genie is out of the bottle.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Personally I've never had it so good.

If you feel under threat from some young wet behind the ears 5 week wonder then maybe you need to take a look at yourself.

It’s not so much 5 week wonders, as no week wonders who are taking work away from us.
Their not actually taking it, they’re being given it by companies that don’t want to pay for qualified Electricians.

I’ve lost track of the number of sites where I’ve turned up and been tasked with sorting out the mess that’s been left by others.
I know on one site (a School in Walthamstow), other than myself, the most qualified person there was an Apprentice borrowed from another company.
On another site (Data Centre in Harlow), the main containment had been done by a company that on the previous building had been doing the carpentry work.

 

[SteveG]

I once had a customer that was knocking a wall down for a roller shutter door. Unfortunately there were about 30 SWA cables running across that wall and they had to jointed and re-routed.
I couldn't get my normal sparks so phoned an agency. I told them I wanted a fully qualified experienced electrician.
They charged me more per hour than I was charging the customer.

Up turns Billy Bob next morning (late cos his bus was late???)
I show him the job and he tells me he hasn't done armoureds before.
(These weren't big SWA's - biggest 4mm 4 core)
The clock was ticking on this job - and I didn't have time to give him a lesson on SWA glanding.
I decide he can pull cables across where the door will be.
He opens his tool box.... a claw hammer (wooden handle) Rusty Pliers with no insulation. Various spanners - none metric and odd useless screwdrivers.

I asked him where he had done his time.
He said he'd never been to prison.

That sealed it - he was off back down the road.