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it's only a flesh wound.This is starting to sound like a Python sketch again......
Discuss 220v. 230v, 240v, 250v? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
it's only a flesh wound.This is starting to sound like a Python sketch again......
wondering what a knuckle screw was ?Thanks for correcting my post mods!
Flowery Tw*ts in 10 mins on BBC1.This is starting to sound like a Python sketch again......
Oh no it isn't.This is starting to sound like a Python sketch again......
As a young apprentice with the local Health Authority I fitted dozens of these, lovely plugs and it brings back memories. Nobody ever questioned why my gran's twin tub had 'Hospital Property' embossed on the lid of the plug,or should that be plug top. ?I think a lot of the problem is some of the cheap plugs that are around these days. Bring back the old MK ones with proper knurled terminal screws with built in washers. Lovely!
This is playing on my mind as the appliance is capable of drawing over 13 amps. If the appliance came with no 13A plug, an electrician would not fit one on this appliance, as it is capable of drawing over 13 amps. Or fit it on a final ring circuit. It is obvious the makers have taken diversity into account, as the load is split between four current drawers, the rings, which will be cutting in and out via thermostats.Had a lady two weeks ago with gas hob and electric oven all controlled with normal cooker point, she wanted to change the hob to electric, no problem, she buys new Bosch induction hob, and I go there with a click dual outlet cooker outlet and some 4.0mm flex to connect it all up.
When we take it out of the box it is rated at 3700 watts and is factory fitted with a lead and 13 amp plug so as we are told to follow manufacturers instructions I then duly fitted a single socket to the cooker outlet circuit and plugged the Hob in.
Did not seem the right thing to do but to date have had no call backs, I do have to go there to do some other work shortly and will check it out and see how it is performing.
How many rings did that hob have?Had a lady two weeks ago with gas hob and electric oven all controlled with normal cooker point, she wanted to change the hob to electric, no problem, she buys new Bosch induction hob, and I go there with a click dual outlet cooker outlet and some 4.0mm flex to connect it all up.
When we take it out of the box it is rated at 3700 watts and is factory fitted with a lead and 13 amp plug so as we are told to follow manufacturers instructions I then duly fitted a single socket to the cooker outlet circuit and plugged the Hob in.
Did not seem the right thing to do but to date have had no call backs, I do have to go there to do some other work shortly and will check it out and see how it is performing.
When we take it out of the box it is rated at 3700 watts and is factory fitted with a lead and 13 amp plug so as we are told to follow manufacturers instructions I then duly fitted a single socket to the cooker outlet circuit and plugged the Hob in.
It says:3700W requires a 16A supply. The hob probably has internal power management setttings to allow the total load to be limited to 16, 13 or 10A which should be set during commissioning. The rating given on the box is 3700W because that is what the hob is physically capable of delivering.
If you scroll down to the 'installation' tab on this link, Bosch have shown the 3700W limit as corresponding to the 13A plug version. I suspect that is a copy-and-paste mistake from the 16A Schuko-plug version and that they do not intend a 13A plug to supply 3700W.
It says:
This hob is equipped with a UK 3 pin plug for an easy plug & play installation. The plug limits the maximum power output to 3.7 KW. For higher power output, please select a hob without plug and ensure installation is carried out by a qualified electrician
The 13A UK plug limits the maximum to below 3.7 kW - I think a mistake here in the writing.
That is why I say use your judgement, not always going by the makers instructions.Agree, it seems like badly worded English.
Indeed, as I pointed out in post #59.The 13A UK plug limits the maximum to below 3.7 kW - I think a mistake here in the writing.
NEFF T36FB41X0G
BOSCH PUE611BF1B
SIEMENS EU631BEF1B
All four ring 13A induction hobs.
That is why I say use your judgement, not always going by the makers instructions.
That still needs judgement.Yes, but you can see the intention of what they mean.
It says:
This hob is equipped with a UK 3 pin plug for an easy plug & play installation. The plug limits the maximum power output to 3.7 KW.
13amp plug limit maximum? Unlikely. A 13 amp plug may well carry a few amps above its rating for a significant periodThe 13A UK plug limits the maximum to below 3.7 kW - I think a mistake here in the writing.
Yes, fuses blow at above 13A, and only when sustained over-current is being drawn. It is a bad design that relies on the fuse not blowing.Interesting comment from the manufacturer, bearing in mind the 13amp fuse is installed primarily to protect the CABLE supplying the hob.
13amp plug limit maximum? Unlikely. A 13 amp plug may well carry a few amps above its rating for a significant period
Was this to a cooker radial 6mm cable? On on a final ring circuit? If on cooker radial, the plug could have been removed with the hob set to 3.7 kW drawing 16A.Had a lady two weeks ago with gas hob and electric oven all controlled with normal cooker point, she wanted to change the hob to electric, no problem, she buys new Bosch induction hob, and I go there with a click dual outlet cooker outlet and some 4.0mm flex to connect it all up.
When we take it out of the box it is rated at 3700 watts and is factory fitted with a lead and 13 amp plug so as we are told to follow manufacturers instructions I then duly fitted a single socket to the cooker outlet circuit and plugged the Hob in.
Did not seem the right thing to do but to date have had no call backs, I do have to go there to do some other work shortly and will check it out and see how it is performing.
But I think we have a concensus that this is a mistake.Interesting comment from the manufacturer,
Achtung!Agree, it seems like badly worded English.
By Bosch as well.But I think we have a concensus that this is a mistake.
Thanks, Buzz... that makes perfect sense...But I think we have a concensus that this is a mistake.
Achtung!
The Kookerhob is greatpowerneeding and the elektrische Kabels have to be placed bei the Skilledtechnician. In Europe is to make 16A Kuppling with a Schukostecker allowed. In Grossbritannien, because the dumme Plugtoppen the Weakcontacts and Stupidlittlefuses which like Heatelements often the Outburning or Downmelting are the cause of are required to have, is max. 13A permitted. Offchoppen von Plugtoppen is ABSOLUT NICHT GESTATTET!
in myold house, back in the 70's the fuse box ( wylex with 3036's) was labelled "Achtung. Gerfingerpoken Verboten".But I think we have a concensus that this is a mistake.
Achtung!
The Kookerhob is greatpowerneeding and the elektrische Kabels have to be placed bei the Skilledtechnician. In Europe is to make 16A Kuppling with a Schukostecker allowed. In Grossbritannien, because the dumme Plugtoppen the Weakcontacts and Stupidlittlefuses which like Heatelements often the Outburning or Downmelting are the cause of are required to have, is max. 13A permitted. Offchoppen von Plugtoppen is ABSOLUT NICHT GESTATTET!
4How many rings did that hob have?
Are you Stanley Unwin in disguise?But I think we have a concensus that this is a mistake.
Achtung!
The Kookerhob is greatpowerneeding and the elektrische Kabels have to be placed bei the Skilledtechnician. In Europe is to make 16A Kuppling with a Schukostecker allowed. In Grossbritannien, because the dumme Plugtoppen the Weakcontacts and Stupidlittlefuses which like Heatelements often the Outburning or Downmelting are the cause of are required to have, is max. 13A permitted. Offchoppen von Plugtoppen is ABSOLUT NICHT GESTATTET!
I prefer a label like this:in myold house, back in the 70's the fuse box ( wylex with 3036's) was labelled "Achtung. Gerfingerpoken Verboten".
Remember the terms "close excess protection" and "coarse excess protection" (not sure if they are used much any more). But manufacturers would be aware that most fuses are pretty crude devices. A 13 amp fuse will happily carry 15,16 amps for more than enough time than it takes to cook your chicken in an ovan or have fry your chop and boil your spudWhen we take it out of the box it is rated at 3700 watts and is factory fitted with a lead and 13 amp plug so as we are told to follow manufacturers instructions I then duly fitted a single socket to the cooker outlet circuit and plugged the Hob in.
"Manufacturers instructions". Well that deserves a thread all of its own. The intent is correct. Who knows an appliance better than its maker.? But like everything, it's open to abuse. The solution in my view is proper scrutiny. Instructions without explanations is always a bad idea. Some manufacturers clearly see it as a blank cheque.I would never have connected a hob to 13A plug, irrespective of what the manufacturer sent it with. It is a matter of doing it safely, not covering your rear end - or believing them (some dodgy, and vague, instructions out there from many makers).
Course protection was essentially a rewirable fuse (and cartridge fuses q2 or R class), and close protection was a cartridge fuse, the terms were removed when the cable sizing method was revamped and the single rated value used for fuses, mcb... etc. Rather than a different value for each type of device based on the 1.5x over 4 hours.Remember the terms "close excess protection" and "coarse excess protection" (not sure if they are used much any more). But manufacturers would be aware that most fuses are pretty crude devices. ....
I thought it was after the 16th, when we had the infamous 'bond everything' theory but I now reckon it was 'removed' by the 15th. Found a 1981 Whitfield Guide to 15th with no mention of 'close and coarse'....just HBC, MCB and rewireable.Coarse protection was essentially a rewirable fuse (and cartridge fuses q2 or R class), and close protection was a cartridge fuse, the terms were removed when the cable sizing method was revamped and the single rated value used for fuses, mcb... etc. Rather than a different value for each type of device based on the 1.5x over 4 hours.
I think it was removed in the 15th edition, but could have been 16th
I think this is a slightly disingenuous observation on fuses. And a reputable manufacturer would not exploit a known undesirable situation (non-tripping overload of OCPD). So I still contend that the hob in question is not supposed to be set to deliver 3.7kW from a 13A plug.manufacturers would be aware that most fuses are pretty crude devices. A 13 amp fuse will happily carry 15,16 amps for more than enough time than it takes to cook your chicken
I think you "slightly" misunderstood. My reference was to how an appliance manufacturer would be aware of the tolerance of 13 amp fuse. Disingenuous??I think this is a slightly disingenuous observation on fuses
. And a reputable manufacturer would not exploit a known undesirable situation (non-tripping overload of OCPD).
You are entitled to your contention. But it does not harmonize with the stated manufacturers instructions as displayed by the OP.. So I still contend that the hob in question is not supposed to be set to deliver 3.7kW from a 13A plug.
i take it as a cheeky prod , Our EU 16A is bigger than your inferior 13A.If so, then I agree fully that it is bad design.
Was the Bosch induction hob installer settable from 3Kw to 3/7kW? The instructions were wrong for sure.The appliance that I was referring to was made by/for a large, reputable, European HQ'd manufacturer whose brands account for a good fraction of mid to high-end UK appliance sales. My observation was specifically that it seems more likely that the literature and specification is in error, at least in the English version, than the design of the appliance.
My reasoning is that the error appears to be of a form that often occurs when different versions of a product are marketed to different territories with different versions of instructions. Sections that need to be replaced altogether to account for version differences are sometimes translated instead. Here, I suspect that the difference between the maximum power input permitted in the UK and German versions has been overlooked when compiling the English instructions.
E.g. where a German manual instructs the user to connect the appliance to a 16A Schuko socket, the English might say 'Connect the appliance to a 16A safety contact'. The incorrect wording 'safety contact' is a clue that a section of text that should have been replaced outright with 'Connect the appliance to a 13A socket-outlet' has instead been translated, therefore the reference to 16A might also be a mistake. Just as I routinely find instructions for US-made, CE-marked, 230V-compatible gear sold in the UK to use only a UL-listed cordset to connect it to my 120V grounded receptacle.
In summary, I do not think it was the intention of Bosch to imply that a 3.7kW load may be supplied via a 13A plug, and therefore to flag it as bad design and blame such a practice for damage and failure would require verification as to whether that really was their intention. If so, then I agree fully that it is bad design.
Was the Bosch induction hob installer settable from 3Kw to 3/7kW? The instructions were wrong for sure.
The British 13A plug is inferior? I have not seen any plug/socket arrangement that is better. None. The earthed Schuko socket with a 13A fuse in the plug would be a great advancement being something the British could take up creating some sort of standardisation. I like the idea of drilling only a round hole to fit a socket.
Did he say the British 13A plug is inferior?
Only on a playground dispute ,my number is bigger than yours basis ,British 13A plug is inferior?
Eurovision twitterness, don't you mean ?.Only on a playground dispute ,my number is bigger than yours basis ,
(But I still have my Eurovision bitterness to deal with)
No he did, nt. But since the topic has been raised, here is my tuppence worth about which is superior. I hold the standard British and Schuko plugs in high regard. (not cheap knockoffs of either) . Have used them both extensively. I would say that on balance I prefer the British plug, specifically for its flat "wall hugging" design with a "vertical" rather than "horizontal" lead. It's much easier to hide.Did he say the British 13A plug is inferior?
The British 13amp plug is not, as many British people seem to believe, inherently safer because of its 13 amp fuse. It seems to be perceived as an"extra" that other countries plugs don't have. The reality is, is that these fuses are the price that has to be paid for employing a 32 amp ring circuit rather than a 16 (or 20amp) radial.The British 13A plug is inferior? I have not seen any plug/socket arrangement that is better.
The "schuko" is already an advanced version of the British plug regarding not needing any fusesNone. The earthed Schuko socket with a 13A fuse in the plug would be a great advancement
If you are hoping the rest of the world will adapt the British fused plug................. Best of luck....... you will need it.......the British could take up creating some sort of standardisation.
likelihood of injury by stepping on a plug barefoot, pins up?I remember reading some articlet which discussed and tested the various mains plugs. I think the British 13A plug excelled in every respect bar one.
Any offers for what test it failed on? No prizes though!
No, but that's a very good one. Along with bits of Lego obviously!likelihood of injury by stepping on a plug barefoot, pins up?
Having a local fuse to a single socket outlet is a great advantage and safety feature. Nothing is better than the UK 3-pin plug, nothing. It is also easy to hold, not like other small awkward plugs around the world, so fine for user use. Get to understand its merits.The British 13amp plug is not, as many British people seem to believe, inherently safer because of its 13 amp fuse. It seems to be perceived as an"extra" that other countries plugs don't have. The reality is, is that these fuses are the price that has to be paid for employing a 32 amp ring circuit rather than a 16 (or 20amp) radial.
The "schuko" is already an advanced version of the British plug regarding not needing any fuses
If you are hoping the rest of the world will adapt the British fused plug................. Best of luck....... you will need it.......
In the late 1980s there was talk of a standard Euro plug that would all adopt. I recall a small 5 minute film on Channel 4 by an American involved in the film industry. He was lauding the UK 3-pin plug, pointing out its advantages, especially the local fuse in the plug, and a firm engagement when pushed in, that would not fall out, saying it is by far the best in the world.I remember reading some articlet which discussed and tested the various mains plugs. I think the British 13A plug excelled in every respect bar one.
Any offers for what test it failed on? No prizes though!
In the late 1980s there was talk of a standard Euro plug that would all adopt. I recall a small 5 minute film on Channel 4 by an American involved in the film industry. He was lauding the UK 3-pin plug, pointing out its advantages, especially the local fuse in the plug, and a firm engagement when pushed in, that would not fall out, saying it is by far the best in the world.
He based this on working around the world experiencing different electrical systems. He said he bought a whole bunch of UK plugs and fuses to use on his own equipment when touring the world. If one piece of equipment was at fault, it never took the lot down.
He was strongly recommending the British not to take up an inferior design and that the EU should adopt the best plug, not adopt an inferior design.
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