3 storey,9 bed HMO just needs a few lithium smoke?

[mondo']

Hi, I'm completely rewiring a 9 bed 3 storey HMO in Jan, The fire detection required is just some linked lithium detectors in the bedrooms/hallways kitchen etc with some emergency lights in the hallways. The thing is I'm doing the rip out after Christmas and I'll be removing everything including a fire alarm panel, break glasses ,FP200 etc , emergency bulkheads and exit signs. This is what was required when it was just a 7 bed 2 storey HMO ( attic conversion is happening). I'm not designing the system, obviously, just installing it to the specs given. The question really is , does this sound right?. I've done loads of smaller HMO's with break glass systems and recently 2 sprinkler systems in relatively small houses ( non hmo) so I just find it hard to believe the landlord has got off so lightly. Any input is welcome.

 

[westward10]

What Category of system does the design denote?
I would be seeking professional advice and a risk assessment, what they are proposing sounds wholly inadequate.

 

[mondo']

D1: LD2 Bs5839 part 6 2019, that was what was quoted to me by the fire assessor when I asked them to double check the required system
From what I can see ( and I am no expert at all on fire design) grade A in communal areas and D LD3 in beds or grade A all the way through for a 3 storey hmo. but i have been wrong many times before.

https://www.bristol.gov.uk/files/documents/3641-fire-safety-standards/file

answering my own questions now. this city of bristol document makes fire panels redundant almost, grade D1 for everything it seems, which is why the council agreed with the fire guy

 

[bill01803]

It doesn’t sound right to me, as you are installing it I would get a second opinion. I know the a house of single ocupancy over 250m sq. over three floors requires more than linked optical smokes etc.

 

[mondo']

No-one I know thinks it sounds right but the designer says it's fine , the council says it's fine, I did email my NIC assessor/engineer for his opinion, obviously no reply there. In the end I will not be signing off on the design just the install and commissioning . also i guess this means no Db check in each room or yearly smoke test or emergency light test .Maybe we'll just have to wait until the whole thing is finished then put some nice trunking everywhere for an' actually you do need a proper panel' moment.

 

[littlespark]

No expert, but a quick google and a document from an HMO architect website states Grade A in communal areas and Grade LD2 or LD3 in the individual rooms for 3 storey buildings.

Emergency lighting is a must.

 

[timhoward]

My understanding is since the 2005 fire regulatory reform act, a fire risk assessment should be provided for a dwelling to operate as a HMO.
The risk assessment will in turn stipulate the safety measures required.
Building regs sometimes don't follow this up assuming the HMO registration process will catch it. It can fall between the cracks.

If it were me I'd be asking to see the risk assessment in order to make sure what I fit complies with it.

 

[mondo']

I've looked at the fire assessment from the last HMO I did for the same landlord and fire assessor, the risk assessment is pretty worthless, it's a templated list of potential issues and then whether or not they apply to the building and if they do what are you going to do about it .If fire is a risk and the solution is a set of lithium smokes then that's what they will put on the risk assessment and in the plans, it's really whether or not the risk assessor who is also the fire design guy wants to install a panel, which in this case he doesn't because he doesn't think he needs to.
It seems we all think he should have a panel but the risk assessment ,fire guy and council say he doesn't so I'll have to live with the fact that I think they are wrong but enough people have signed stuff to say it's right so I'll install it and invoice away.
Interestingly the risk assessment does say that a contractor will have to check the smokes on a yearly basis, can't remember being asked to do that on anything but a panel.
Thanks for your comments.