4 post Bradbury liftmaster dol starter

[timhoward]

I'm not very good at leaving things I don't completely understand so before I move on to resolve the practical issue of incorporating a 230v dols would someone please confirm the correctness of my wiring diagram.

You have the right idea. If there is definitely no continuity between "1" and "A/B/C" with the contactor manually closed that gets interrupted by the Down button, then as you have identified there is a need for the orange wire on your diagram yet nowhere to connect it....
I find myself wondering if the other terminal with the two other coil wires is somehow involved. More testing needed!

2 things (I am aware of) I don't understand:
1, why 2 of the wires exiting the coil join at a terminal?

The theory that Lucien suggested, which seems likely, is that the coil is either two coils or tapped at various points, enabling the supply voltage to vary. There are two things to do to explore this further...
1 - measure the resistance of the two coil wires that are not joined together, the red and ?grey once. Also measure the resistance of all permutations of the 4 coil wires. Report back on that.
2 - confirm that the terminal that has the two wires joined together has no electrical continuity to any other terminal (with the coil disconnected).

2, assuming I can use 'L3-C as I have to provide current to the off switch (NC) when on switch (no) released, any idea how I would facilitate the 'orangey '(on diagram) connection to C

That is indeed the question, see above.
Keep at it, you are doing well!

 

[Welshgixxer]

You have the right idea. If there is definitely no continuity between "1" and "A/B/C" with the contactor manually closed that gets interrupted by the Down button, then as you have identified there is a need for the orange wire on your diagram yet nowhere to connect it....
I find myself wondering if the other terminal with the two other coil wires is somehow involved. More testing needed!

The theory that Lucien suggested, which seems likely, is that the coil is either two coils or tapped at various points, enabling the supply voltage to vary. There are two things to do to explore this further...
1 - measure the resistance of the two coil wires that are not joined together, the red and ?grey once. Also measure the resistance of all permutations of the 4 coil wires. Report back on that.
2 - confirm that the terminal that has the two wires joined together has no electrical continuity to any other terminal (with the coil disconnected).

That is indeed the question, see above.
Keep at it, you are doing well!

Thanks Tim,

More images of contactor and resistance values of coils below

In answer:

• Def no continuity between 1 and A,B or C.

• coil contact terminal (labelled 'A' in resistance value table below and orange dot in image) is plastic and purely a means of connecting coil ends

* I think I have found the missing contact terminal I need for the 'orangey' connection - see image of underside of contactor below (green dot) ** here's the thing - you can see a wire has been/ was intended to be connected to it - problem is the other end of that wire seems to be connected to L3 (see image of top of contactor, blue dot) which would provide a permanent live to the off 'switch'

A) would this configuration work?
B) would a better solution be a connection to C (rather than L3)?

On a practical level - if I rewire contactor as above and provide a 'contactor' live between C and the newfound contact terminal on underside - can I make this dols coil work at 230, considering that max o/l of this dols is 7.2 and the new single phase motor states 8.2?

Sorry to answer your questions with more questions, but sense I am close - although poss not close enough!

Ps really appreciate the positive feedback - my mind doesn't lean to circuitry without a lot of persuasion.

Si

 

[brianmoooore]

Isn't the 'orangey' wire to connect up the auxiliary NO contacts of the contactor and make it into one that holds on?
May be wrong, but I doubt that is required for a hydraulic ramp.

 

[timhoward]

Isn't the 'orangey' wire to connect up the auxiliary NO contacts of the contactor and make it into one that holds on?
May be wrong, but I doubt that is required for a hydraulic ramp.

I agree about the purpose, but my take was that it must have been part of intended original design to hold on, otherwise the "down" operation wouldn't need to open the coil using that little rod.
As you imply it would certainly be possible to proceed without this wire in meantime.

 

[brianmoooore]

The possibility of a ramp moving in any way when the controls are not being operated is extremely dangerous.
It takes about 15 seconds for my ramp to go from down to its highest position, so I can't see what 'hold on' would achieve.

 

[timhoward]

The possibility of a ramp moving in any way when the controls are not being operated is extremely dangerous.
It takes about 15 seconds for my ramp to go from down to its highest position, so I can't see what 'hold on' would achieve.

I take your point - I was also nervous about deviating from an apparent design for similar reasons. But I agree that simpler is safer in this case.

Going back to the 230v coil question -
It looks to me as though the bottom line (A to Grey2) coil resistance of 1.61 ohms is for 230v coil operation. Working out which of the two wires currently joined has the resistance given (1.61 ohms) when measured to Grey2 would be the next step. You should then have a pair of wires that will operate the coil / contact when supplied with 230v. (I trust an RCD protected supply is being used for any testing!)

 

[Welshgixxer]

Brian, Lucien, Tim

I'm not very good at leaving things I don't completely understand so before I move on to resolve the practical issue of incorporating a 230v dols would someone please confirm the correctness of my wiring diagram.

I am attaching an image of the Dols and my basic wiring diagram interpretation of it. I have coloured in live & neutral to distinguish them from hardwiring.

2 things (I am aware of) I don't understand:
1, why 2 of the wires exiting the coil join at a terminal?; and
2, assuming I can use 'L3-C as I have to provide current to the off switch (NC) when on switch (no) released, any idea how I would facilitate the 'orangey '(on diagram) connection to C?

Ps. The purple highlighted circle on the wiring diagram indicates the rocker that opens the off switch (NC) operated by the red button.

Of course I could have it all wrong!

Won't let me add images- to follow hopefully

Thanks again.

Si

Brian, Lucien, Tim

Sorry for the delay but tonight is the first night I have made it to the shed since.
I'm sure I'll encounter more probs but I rewired the contactor looping N through 2 contacts and isolated 1 coil - it spun the motor - massive thanks to you all.

Ps Tim, yes Rcd

Si

 

[timhoward]

I rewired the contactor looping N through 2 contacts and isolated 1 coil - it spun the motor - massive thanks to you all.

Well done. You’ll get there. And then I’m driving my car down to Cardiff to look under it ….. ;-)

 

[Welshgixxer]

Well done. You’ll get there. And then I’m driving my car down to Cardiff to look under it ….. ;-)

Most welcome - at your risk

 

[Welshgixxer]

The possibility of a ramp moving in any way when the controls are not being operated is extremely dangerous.
It takes about 15 seconds for my ramp to go from down to its highest position, so I can't see what 'hold on' would achieve.

Bri

Hope you don't mind - electrically lift works fine. All posts are plumb and ramp level.
Without extra load ramp reaches chest level fine but then seems to struggle - not smooth - slow and hesitant I.e. rise/pause/rise/pause - not jumpy but as if needing to build pressure before continuing. It lowers without resistance - so I am thinking pump/ ram seals need replacing - make sense.
Tried attaching vid but too large

Si

 

[Welshgixxer]

Bri

Hope you don't mind - electrically lift works fine. All posts are plumb and ramp level.
Without extra load ramp reaches chest level fine but then seems to struggle - not smooth - slow and hesitant I.e. rise/pause/rise/pause - not jumpy but as if needing to build pressure before continuing. It lowers without resistance - so I am thinking pump/ ram seals need replacing - make sense.
Tried attaching vid but too large

Si

Photo of (fresh) oil reservoir - looks aerated to me - indicate anything? - all new to me

 

[brianmoooore]

Sounds like either not enough oil in the reservoir or something wrong with the pick up.
Ram seal wouldn't cause this, until enough oil had leaked out to cause problems

 

[Welshgixxer]

Sounds like either not enough oil in the reservoir or something wrong with the pick up.
Ram seal wouldn't cause this, until enough oil had leaked out to cause problems

Cheers Bri, came to same conclusion after posting to you. Gemco advised 15l but having checking Bradbury manual - should be 22. Will let lie for a bit, top up and cross fingers for easy fix - lucky I removed Res cover as I had thought mechanical interference on main post and been grinding column to allow free movement - (evidence of historical roller to post contact)

 

[brianmoooore]

Mine has a oil drain pipe back to the sump, connected into the ram housing, just above the top limit of the seal. Every time you raise the ramp fully up, any oil that has passed the seal is returned to the sump.
Does yours have this feature?

 

[Welshgixxer]

Mine has a oil drain pipe back to the sump, connected into the ram housing, just above the top limit of the seal. Every time you raise the ramp fully up, any oil that has passed the seal is returned to the sump.
Does yours have this feature?

Into reservoir from pipe (green arrow) through rectangular cut out (green arrow).
The manual I have is for mk1 - quite basic (few pages) - happy to send you a copy if any use.

 

[Welshgixxer]

Mine has a oil drain pipe back to the sump, connected into the ram housing, just above the top limit of the seal. Every time you raise the ramp fully up, any oil that has passed the seal is returned to the sump.
Does yours have this feature?

Mine has a oil drain pipe back to the sump, connected into the ram housing, just above the top limit of the seal. Every time you raise the ramp fully up, any oil that has passed the seal is returned to the sump.
Does yours have this feature?

Enters reservoir through pipe (green arrow) through rectangular cut out (blue arrow).

Bradbury manual (v basic) any use to you?

 

[Welshgixxer]

It works. Celebratory cuppa

 

[RAmadu]

It works. Celebratory cuppa

We have just put up a used Bradbury 735 MK1, came with no instructions. Our Lube tank is a big square tank, has the motor inside . Can you tell me how much hydraulic oil to put in? Glad you got yours going. We also had to change motor from 3 phase to single, using capacitors? thanks,

 

[Welshgixxer]

We have just put up a used Bradbury 735 MK1, came with no instructions. Our Lube tank is a big square tank, has the motor inside . Can you tell me how much hydraulic oil to put in? Glad you got yours going. We also had to change motor from 3 phase to single, using capacitors? thanks,

Manual states 22l - I found out that 15l insufficient - 20l worked fine (lucky as I bought a 20l tub)

 

[brianmoooore]

If you hear the pump start to cavitate when the ramp is nearly fully up, add a bit more. Nothing critical about it.