50 year old radial sockets at floor level

[electrician4u]

Doing a re-wire for a customer who doesn't want surface mini trunking, can't channel walls and wants me to use 50 year old conduit to re-wire.It was originally wired as a radial circuit and don't think I'd get 2x2.5 mm T & E's down the conduit.Assuming the kitchen can be done seperately, could I re-wire the rest of the sockets as a radial and put it on a 20 breaker? Another problem is existing sockets cut into skirting at floor level.Is it compusory to raise these to above 450mm or can I just mark it as a deviation?

 

[ExArmy]

you could always use singles?

 

[ExArmy]

and socket heights can stay, it's not a new build. part M only applies to a new build (domestic dwellings)

 

[Strima]

As long as you can get access to the draw boxes etc just wiring it in singles should be straight forward enough. A lot less cleaning up as well.

 

[Brightspark2]

But you could also run one 2.5mm in and make it a 20A radial...so there's the options...depending on calcs of course...

Sent from my Xperia S using next doors WIFI.

 

[Plonker 3]

But you could also run one 2.5mm in and make it a 20A radial...so there's the options...depending on calcs of course...

Sent from my Xperia S using next doors WIFI.

But if there is more than 1 socket then you will need to pull 2 x 2.5 twin and earth cables up the conduit.

 

[Geordie Spark]

But if there is more than 1 socket then you will need to pull 2 x 2.5 twin and earth cables up the conduit.

........... and then you may as well go the whole hog & make it a ring final.

 

[trev]

I'd be concerned about stressing the flexes entering the plug tops. You can get some skirting trunking that doesn't look too hideous.

 

[ExArmy]

I'd be concerned about stressing the flexes entering the plug tops. You can get some skirting trunking that doesn't look too hideous.

good point i missed that, i read it as they were ontop of the skirting boards. i changed a board at a house recently that had sockets on the skirting, couldn't get my plugtop lead in some and had to use a socket and see tester as they were so low. i told the customer they should be raised and wrote it on the cert in the comments section

 

[Silly Sausage]

Another silly picture... - DIYnot.com - DIY and Home Improvement

 

[trev]

Some idiot is advocating cable entry on the top surface of plug tops there. No wonder I steer well clear of that asylum.

 

[jenions]

For some reason I always remember someone telling me that you cudnt have sockets in/on skirting board :/ can't remember why. Only thing I ever thought was that it is a fire hazard.



Sent from my BlackBerry 9360 using Tapatalk

 

[trev]

There's loads of buildings out there with them in the skirts Jenions, it was the way it was done years ago. Stress on the flexes is why it's a no no now.

 

[jenions]

Ooooo like I said It was one of them things that I cudnt quite remember the reason just that someone had said it to me. At least I know now ey

Sent from my BlackBerry 9360 using Tapatalk

 

[Adam W]

Just put the sockets on upside down, then there won't be any stress on the flexes. Simples.

 

[Des 56]

Pulling 4.0mm singles through the conduit will be almost certainly be just as easy or hard as pulling 2.5mm and give more leeway

You will probably find the conduit is also via the kitchen,this will open up more options for pulling in extra cores or including the kitchen sockets,there will also more likely be a pipe for the cooker circuit that could be utilised for a seperate kitchen supply,radial or ring

The possibilities are many and these need to be decided upon beforehand, in the light of what pipes are existing and what can be wired to where
If I survey a property and there are conduits,I tend to think this is a lucky day indeed

 

[Richard Burns]

Just put the sockets on upside down, then there won't be any stress on the flexes. Simples.

My Aunt has some sockets mounted in the skirting and on two of them the sockets are mounted upside down! (not by me)

 

[Adam W]

My Aunt has some sockets mounted in the skirting and on two of them the sockets are mounted upside down! (not by me)

For some reason that reminds me of my old primary school; in one of the classrooms there were only about 3 single sockets, the most 'accessible' one being in a corner, up by the ceiling. If the teacher wanted to play us a tape she'd stand on a chair to reach the socket, plug in the tape player and balance it on the top corner of the wendy house, held up by the flex.
'Health & Safety' would have had a field day if they'd gone in there and if they'd existed at the time.

 

[Guest55]

I dont see the point of some half-ased rewire that wont allow wall chases , ring mains , and reuses old socket positions in skirting ???
Its either done to current standards or walk , to be quite blunt.

 

[La Poste]

If you can only get one cable down each conduit why not use the crab configuration for the radial.

Apparently it's quite popular in France.

 

[Geordie Spark]

If you can only get one cable down each conduit why not use the crab configuration for the radial.

Apparently it's quite popular in France.

The crab configuration ?? ............... surely you mean the Frog configuration don't you ????

 

[Adam W]

One problem you might find using old conduit is if it's in imperial sizes in which case you might struggle to find parts.
You might be able to chase up a foot or so and cengar off the tube, but good luck getting a stock in there to thread it, or even finding the right die if it's imperial.

 

[electrician4u]

I thought about the upside down socket route but you know what people are like.They'll take one look and say:what a f..ing idiot, he's put it upside down!The guy who said the min height of sockets only applies to new build, is that correct?surely the 17th Ed. has to be followed when ur changing anything.

 

[Des 56]

I thought about the upside down socket route but you know what people are like.They'll take one look and say:what a f..ing idiot, he's put it upside down!The guy who said the min height of sockets only applies to new build, is that correct?surely the 17th Ed. has to be followed when ur changing anything.

Yes.we follow the regs,but in this example, the answers you were given likely refer to the "Building" regs

 

[Richard Burns]

I thought about the upside down socket route but you know what people are like.They'll take one look and say:what a f..ing idiot, he's put it upside down!The guy who said the min height of sockets only applies to new build, is that correct?surely the 17th Ed. has to be followed when ur changing anything.

The minimum height of sockets/switches is a recommendation in Part M of the building Regulations covering use of buildings, it is not part of the wiring regulations. Part M states that the minimum height is not applicable to extensions or change of use of dwellings.
If you can raise the sockets within the space of the skirting board and fill/ board beneath them this may be a good thing but you do not need to go to 450mm.


too slow!

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Doing a re-wire for a customer who doesn't want surface mini trunking, can't channel walls and wants me to use 50 year old conduit to re-wire.It was originally wired as a radial circuit and don't think I'd get 2x2.5 mm T & E's down the conduit.Assuming the kitchen can be done seperately, could I re-wire the rest of the sockets as a radial and put it on a 20 breaker? Another problem is existing sockets cut into skirting at floor level.Is it compusory to raise these to above 450mm or can I just mark it as a deviation?

No, but surely you'd remember that from your training!!! :wink5:

 

[snowhead]

or even finding the right die if it's imperial.

Still got mine somewhere, and you can get metric / imperial adapters.

 

[Guest55]

Why does this customer want a rewire anyway ??
Surely the whole point is to bring the installation upto current standards ??
re-using old imperial gauge conduit and sockets in skirting hardly achieves this.
The customer needs a reality check if you ask me.

 

[Guest55]

Still got mine somewhere, and you can get metric / imperial adapters.

Yeah , but would you really bother with all that faff for a domestic install just because the customer wont accept that chasing need to be done ? not bloody likely lol.

 

[richy3333]

Doing a re-wire for a customer who doesn't want surface mini trunking, can't channel walls and wants me to use 50 year old conduit to re-wire.It was originally wired as a radial circuit and don't think I'd get 2x2.5 mm T & E's down the conduit.Assuming the kitchen can be done seperately, could I re-wire the rest of the sockets as a radial and put it on a 20 breaker? Another problem is existing sockets cut into skirting at floor level.Is it compusory to raise these to above 450mm or can I just mark it as a deviation?

Do you have a copy of the Regs? If so what do they say? Are you Part P compliant - I guess you are as you advertise as an NICEIC Domestic Installer and an Approved contractor - so do the Building Regs apply in this situation?

 

[electrician4u]

I dont see the point of some half-ased rewire that wont allow wall chases , ring mains , and reuses old socket positions in skirting ???
Its either done to current standards or walk , to be quite blunt.

can't chase the walls cos it's a listed building, minitrunking very difficult cos doors everywhere and conduit too tight for 2 T & E's .maybe could pull 6 2.5's but doubtful

 

[electrician4u]

The minimum height of sockets/switches is a recommendation in Part M of the building Regulations covering use of buildings, it is not part of the wiring regulations. Part M states that the minimum height is not applicable to extensions or change of use of dwellings.
If you can raise the sockets within the space of the skirting board and fill/ board beneath them this may be a good thing but you do not need to go to 450mm.

Thanks for clarifying that.I've just found it in the OSG that it doesn't apply to re-wires.that should be in BOLD TYPE-it matters!

 

[electrician4u]

Do you have a copy of the Regs? If so what do they say? Are you Part P compliant - I guess you are as you advertise as an NICEIC Domestic Installer and an Approved contractor - so do the Building Regs apply in this situation?

That's not me, bud.that website is someone else.yes i do have regs but to save me trawling through them, I thought, I know, I'll ask those pleasant chaps on electriansforum to save some time

 

[trev]

can't chase the walls cos it's a listed building,

So how do they manage on Grand Designs? Lots of listed buildings on there with chased wiring

 

[Swicade]

I'd be tempted to try drilling a big hole (20mm masonary bit) down behind the skirting for cable run and mount sockets just above the skirting.....works well for upstairs circuits but only possible downstairs if there's wooden and not concrete flooring.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

So how do they manage on Grand Designs? Lots of listed buildings on there with chased wiring

A special clause in the 17th appendix - relating to the Kevin McCloud or Connor McCloud of the McCloud clan and the quickening, and they're family being exempt from normal reasoning.

Or presentation skills

 

[Strima]

can't chase the walls cos it's a listed building,

I wish I'd have known that before now, the amount of old plaster I've chucked in the skip...

 

[electrician4u]

So how do they manage on Grand Designs? Lots of listed buildings on there with chased wiring

I won't dignify that with a response

 

[trev]

Allow me to rephrase it then. There are many hundreds, probably thousands, of listed buildings up and down the country, I've had the privilege of working in a few. I have never heard of a rule which prohibits chasing walls, could you point me in the direction of it please

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I won't dignify that with a response[/QUOTE]

You have done!

sorry it's just something that always amuses me so I have to respond electrician4u. Apologies in advance!

 

[Guest55]

I have never heard of a rule which prohibits chasing walls, could you point me in the direction of it please

There isnt any.
i've done a rewire of a grade 2 listed cottege - we beat the crap out of it during first fix.

 

[shocking_eg]

depends on the building. we've worked on a grade II 350 year old cottage with plaster and larve walls in which all wiring had to be surface and no holes drilled through the main structure.

 

[electrician4u]

Allow me to rephrase it then. There are many hundreds, probably thousands, of listed buildings up and down the country, I've had the privilege of working in a few. I have never heard of a rule which prohibits chasing walls, could you point me in the direction of it please

it's on a housing Estate in a block of flats. I was informed by their head office that the buildings were listed and chasing was not allowed

 

[electrician4u]

But if there is more than 1 socket then you will need to pull 2 x 2.5 twin and earth cables up the conduit.

why would i need to pull up 2 T & E's if there's more than 1 socket for a radial circuit?

 

[shocking_eg]

Just rewire in singles

 

[Darkwood]

Just a case of Cart Leading Horse..... their are a lot of head strong customers out there that think they can dictate and get their own way regardless of the reg's you have to follow... its just a matter of expressing requirements and where you can make allowances due to the listing of a building if that be the case.


Golden rule.... dont let the customer dictate the job they should only give what they prefer and not demand ... if its means you can't meet cuurent regs then you need to evaluate whether it will impact the safety of the installation and if it does not then a deviation from the reg's can be called under certain situations... i.e listed building etc

 

[Darkwood]

why would i need to pull up 2 T & E's if there's more than 1 socket for a radial circuit?

Can't believe you just ask that, if a radial of sockets has more than 1 outlet the all the socket before the last one will have 2 x t&e at them..... or have i misread your response ?

 

[cbw]

why would i need to pull up 2 T & E's if there's more than 1 socket for a radial circuit?

Thankyou for this post....can go to bed with a smile on my face!!!!

Junction box to junction box is not good!

 

[electrician4u]

Can't believe you just ask that, if a radial of sockets has more than 1 outlet the all the socket before the last one will have 2 x t&e at them..... or have i misread your response ?

but you won't have 2 T & E's in the same conduit! you'll have 2 T & E's in the same connection box, but that's not what the guy said! one goes one way, one goes the other!!

 

[electrician4u]

why would i need to pull up 2 T & E's if there's more than 1 socket for a radial circuit?

Thankyou for this post....can go to bed with a smile on my face!!!!

Junction box to junction box is not good!

Eh? how else would you wire a radial circuit? you're joking, right?