A question for domestic installers who are with Stroma......

[HappyHippyDad]

I am a domestic installer. I have done the domestic installers course only, so do not have level 3. I have been with Stroma for perhaps 7 years and as most of you know Napit are taking over the competent person scheme. This year I was given the choice of either staying with Stroma for one last year or moving over to Napit now, I choose to stay with Stroma as they were still cheaper.

My question is, have any domestic installers moved over to Napit (or indeed any other scheme) since September 2020? The reason for that date is that new requirements for joining a scheme came in to date then and they now require you to have level 3. Did any one have any problems with the switch?

I have checked the new ELECTROTECHNICAL ASSESSMENT SPECIFICATION FOR USE BY CERTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION BODIES (EAS) and on page 28 it does say the following:

"It is acceptable to permit new applications from an existing or previously recognised Qualified Supervisor, provided that they have been a Qualified Supervisor within two years of the application; and can provide a letter or similar evidence from the previous scheme provider confirming their Qualified Supervisor status and the scope of work previously assessed, which must be equal to the scope of work being applied for.
An applicant Qualified Supervisor will need to have at least 2 years’ evidence of responsibility for the technical standard of electrotechnical work and evidence of ongoing Continuous Professional Development."

Just wondering if anyone has any first hand knowledge of this or simply any more information about it all? I can't imagine I will be refused next year, but it is a slight concern

Cheers all..

 

[richy3333]

As a DI I would assume the QS position doesn't exist under that scheme, but its just a guess from north of the border

 

[7029 dave]

I would speak to napit and get that confirmed Steve, don't wait.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

@happyhippydad , this doesn't completely answer your question, but may be useful info.

I'm on a FB group for people trained through a certain training centre, offering the usual DI type courses. Most people in the group seem to go for NICEIC as (anecdotally) they are the most relaxed on entrance requirements. Certainly, since september there have been newcomers successfully joining NICEIC for the 1st time with L2 qualifications, and, I believe, <1 year experience. Supposedly level 3 will become a requirement this year, for new entrants.

Anecdotally again, NAPIT have required L3 for some time now, possibly years, but I suspect that may be only for new entrants. If you look at the attached old EAS from 2015, as far as I can make out, it appears that level 3 has been a requirement (for new entrants) since back then anyway, so I'm not sure why schemes have been taking on new members with L2?

I read the current EAS as, if you're already a scheme member, then you're ok. If you're not, the new entry rules should apply.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I am a domestic installer. I have done the domestic installers course only, so do not have level 3. I have been with Stroma for perhaps 7 years and as most of you know Napit are taking over the competent person scheme. This year I was given the choice of either staying with Stroma for one last year or moving over to Napit now, I choose to stay with Stroma as they were still cheaper.

My question is, have any domestic installers moved over to Napit (or indeed any other scheme) since September 2020? The reason for that date is that new requirements for joining a scheme came in to date then and they now require you to have level 3. Did any one have any problems with the switch?

I have checked the new ELECTROTECHNICAL ASSESSMENT SPECIFICATION FOR USE BY CERTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION BODIES (EAS) and on page 28 it does say the following:

"It is acceptable to permit new applications from an existing or previously recognised Qualified Supervisor, provided that they have been a Qualified Supervisor within two years of the application; and can provide a letter or similar evidence from the previous scheme provider confirming their Qualified Supervisor status and the scope of work previously assessed, which must be equal to the scope of work being applied for.
An applicant Qualified Supervisor will need to have at least 2 years’ evidence of responsibility for the technical standard of electrotechnical work and evidence of ongoing Continuous Professional Development."

Just wondering if anyone has any first hand knowledge of this or simply any more information about it all? I can't imagine I will be refused next year, but it is a slight concern

Cheers all..

you will be fine as you have 2+ years as QS and auditable experience from current registration, even if you opted out of NAPIT and went to NICEIC you would walk on in

 

[Vortigern]

I was JIB graded about forty years ago. My boss got the card for me. I thought nothing of it and put it somewhere never to be seen again. Just did not realise the importance of it. Carried on wiring house shops offices and some factory work in London, Scotland and so on until the Part P thing which I again resisted for around fifteen years then finally caved in and joined Stroma. Went over to NAPIT last year and there was a snag with my qualifications I took a few years ago. 2397 QS course. However the guy/organisation sent me a level 3 cert and I did do a portfolio with it finally. Anyway after a bit of a kerfuffle they decided I could join anyway as I was with an existing scheme and accepted my TPC, EICR and commercial and domestic level from STROMA and afforded me the same competencies as I had already enjoyed. Strangely they did not want to see my commercial work as they were already satisfied with it. They insisted on visiting a crumby little domestic ring circuit I had done. All in all I would say the bar has been raised which is not a bad thing. Of course this only catches the conscientious among us and does nothing to address cowboys and ne'er do wells plying their con games on the gullible which is somewhat infuriating.

 

[Dave OCD]

I think it's a right cheek to be asking for evidence of 'continuous professional development' - this is something that employees of large companies generally have to demonstrate as part of an annual appraisal , seems you must always be ambitious to climb the ladder. But as a self-employed sole trader I'm quite satisfied with what I do and have perfectly adequate qualifications coupled with 35 years of post apprenticeship experience. Honestly these scams are a right load of b0ll0cks. ?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Cheers for the replies guys, I reckon I'll be fine. Not too worried about it, perhaps a tad, but looks like I'll be fine ?

 

[Mike Johnson]

All construction professionals (even sole traders) who belong to a professional body (ARIBA, MIStructE, RICS) to maintain their membership have to prove each year that they have kept up with new trends and legislation in the form of CPD, do you not think this is a good idea?

 

[Dave OCD]

Of course you need to keep up with current regulations and legislation but that's not necessarily CPD.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Then what is it, if it's not continuing your professional development.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The professional bodies in the UK allocate a threshold of CPD points that a member must reach each year to maintain membership, these points are accumulated by different means recognised by the professional body, for instance they may consider being on this Forum for six hours a year could be allocated two points towards your CPD total, it is up to the said body to assess and award points to different activities normally associated with the activities of its membership.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

for instance they may consider being on this Forum for six hours a year could be allocated two points towards your CPD total,

Blimey, the majority of us have the required CPD total for the rest of our lives by now then! ?

 

[7029 dave]

The professional bodies in the UK allocate a threshold of CPD points that a member must reach each year to maintain membership, these points are accumulated by different means recognised by the professional body, for instance they may consider being on this Forum for six hours a year could be allocated two points towards your CPD total, it is up to the said body to assess and award points to different activities normally associated with the activities of its membership.

I think your getting confused CPD has nothing to do with past core qualifications.

Example heart surgeon been qualified say 38 years, doing day in and out heart surgery, the NHS are not going to take him off the table/ or say you need to be mentored, just because of some new legislation etc.

My point is, you are doing/have been doing the same task for years, experience is key and cant be taken away.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I did not say that CPC has anything to do with past qualifications, its to do with maintaining standards by using up to date knowledge, to use your analogy would you let a heart surgeon use a 38 year old procedure or anaesthetic, of course not, the surgeon has to keep up with modern medicine and can only do this by continuing the development of their skills and knowledge, hence CPD irrespective of when they acquired their qualification.

 

[derek]

I think your getting confused CPD has nothing to do with past core qualifications.

Example heart surgeon been qualified say 38 years, doing day in and out heart surgery, the NHS are not going to take him off the table/ or say you need to be mentored, just because of some new legislation etc.

My point is, you are doing/have been doing the same task for years, experience is key and cant be taken away.

I have had a quick look and it seems surgeons need to be reacredited, and one of the requirements is CPD points. Let's face it with constant new developments in surgical techniques it would be foolish not to engage in CPD.
It seems doctors need revalidation every 5 years.

 

[7029 dave]

I have had a quick look and it seems surgeons need to be reacredited, and one of the requirements is CPD points. Let's face it with constant new developments in surgical techniques it would be foolish not to engage in CPD.

Understand what you saying about new techniques, and yes everybody is consistently learning every day new skills etc, thats life.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Neatly by-passed. ?

 

[derek]

Understand what you saying about new techniques, and yes everybody is consistently learning every day new skills etc, thats life.

But it does seem that if a doctor/surgeon does not prove a commitment to continuous medical education then they could be struck off despite having 38 years in the game, although I have no idea how onerous those requirements are.

 

[loz2754]

I agree that it's a good idea to keep up to date with trends and obviously new regulations. But I find myself wondering, who appointed the NICEIC and other trade bodies the position of monitoring CPD for their members?
I don't recall reading anything in the terms and conditions.

 

[7029 dave]

I was only trying to compare to the OP's situation.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Is the NICEIC an accredited body that has an approved qualification for its members and therefore require them to submit their CPD to retain membership?

 

[Vortigern]

Napit do specify you must have 3 CPD points per year. It's quite plainly required. The good thing is if you sign up with say Schneider for instance or Aico etc. you can collect those points easily. As well Napit do on line seminars and give you a certificate for "attending" and you can get your points that way. They have recently done one on EICR, also some on AFDD and SPD which is good. It is helpful to hear other professionals discuss these things and expand your working knowledge.

 

[loz2754]

Is the NICEIC an accredited body that has an approved qualification for its members and therefore require them to submit their CPD to retain membership?

Good question. I need to go and reread their terms and conditions. The inspector on my last year's assessment visit mumbled something about it but said it's not yet a requirement, but that I should probably start keeping records just in case.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Agree, it's not difficult to get CPD points if you understand the process.

 

[Dave OCD]

I still say it's utter nonsense and more unnecessary red tape. If my work is all done to a high standard and in full compliance with BS7671,appropriate insurance is in place and with 100% happy and satisfied customers what right do they have to ask for more than that ? It's another example of more box ticking while general standards of workmanship continue to drop without it being addressed.

 

[cloverman]

CPD's are the in thing for most large organisations anyhow ! As already said it used for all types of working environments and employees have to prove that they have attended updates in their knowledge and skills requirements for the work they carry out.
Nothing new in my book, just another method of achieving what we all should be doing as standard

 

[UNG]

I was JIB graded about forty years ago. My boss got the card for me. I thought nothing of it and put it somewhere never to be seen again. Just did not realise the importance of it. Carried on wiring house shops offices and some factory work in London, Scotland and so on until the Part P thing which I again resisted for around fifteen years then finally caved in and joined Stroma. Went over to NAPIT last year and there was a snag with my qualifications I took a few years ago. 2397 QS course. However the guy/organisation sent me a level 3 cert and I did do a portfolio with it finally. Anyway after a bit of a kerfuffle they decided I could join anyway as I was with an existing scheme and accepted my TPC, EICR and commercial and domestic level from STROMA and afforded me the same competencies as I had already enjoyed. Strangely they did not want to see my commercial work as they were already satisfied with it. They insisted on visiting a crumby little domestic ring circuit I had done. All in all I would say the bar has been raised which is not a bad thing. Of course this only catches the conscientious among us and does nothing to address cowboys and ne'er do wells plying their con games on the gullible which is somewhat infuriating.

Have you ever registered yourself on Home | Electrotechnical Certification Scheme - https://www.ecscard.org.uk/ like you I had a JIB card 40 years ago, when I registered on the site I found they already knew quite a lot about me from my old JIB card

 

[Mike Johnson]

If you have not come across CPD in your working life then you have been working with you head in the sand, I have been retired for nigh on ten years and used to be on the CPD panel for my Institute and the CIC it's not new.

 

[Dave OCD]

I worked as an electrical inspector for the local Council for 24 years so I'm very familiar with this, it always seemed to me that some staff became so focussed on CPD and doing as many irrelevant courses as possible that they totally lost track of actually doing the jobs that they were paid to do.
Scam membership takes more than enough of my time and money already without another layer of waffle on top.