NICEIC Certification Scheme Getting accredited to

[jcelec]

Looking for some advice regarding joining a CPS. I've been in the electrical industry in various roles for nearly 10 years.

I started my electrical education back in 2008 when I completed a level 2 qualification and picked it back up in 2016 gaining a level 3 C&G followed by inspection and testing.

I'm up to date with my 18th edition. I've since done the C&G EV qualification and have worked as the QS for a company in an EV installer role. I spent 2023 away from the electrical industry but would like to return to the electrical industry, starting up as an EV charger installer on a self employed basis.

I need to be able to self certify as I was before but I have been told by NAPIT that they are unable to grant me membership as I don't have an NVQ 3, following changes in the criteria for scheme membership.

I was last assessed just over 2 years ago which unfortunately is there cut off! I never did the NVQ 3 before as I never needed a JIB gold card for any of my previous work so it just wasn't necessary.

Undertaking an NVQ level 3 now seems excessive for the work I actually want to do considering my previous experience and qualifications.

I've looked at the required evidence needed for the NVQ portfolio and a lot of it appears to be more commercial (cable tray, Piro cable, metal trunking etc), which is not only mostly irrelevant for a domestic EV charger installer but would also be pretty difficult to evidence for a portfolio as I am not currently working in the industry.

Even if I was to start up and go out fitting chargers (notifying the relevant building control dept each time), I wouldn't be able to use the work I'm doing as evidence for an NVQ portfolio as most of what's required wouldn't be involved in the installations.

I know personally several very successful, long standing and competent electricians who work solely on Domestic installations who do not have the NVQ level 3.

Is there any other way of joining a scheme to be able to self certify, perhaps with limited scope with the experience and qualifications I have? The NIC domestic installer scheme perhaps?

An NVQ 3 seems like a bit of an undertaking considering they would have happily signed me up if I'd have applied a few months earlier .

Looking forward to hearing your input

 

[DMElec.1]

Its a level 3 that you need. If you self certify. Not much you can do about that - I think you have answered your own question - not because I say it is that way, but because Napit say it is - try other scams...sorry schemes. You may be (if you really are good enough - not judging - I dont know your level of competence) you may be able to talk to the college assessor and they have the power to fast track you - but you need to be super experienced and capable of showing this, talk to a college about it.

 

[nicebutdim]

I'm a bit confused here as the first sentence mentions gaining C&G lvl3 - I would have thought that would be NVQ lvl 3.

Which level 3 City & Guilds course did you complete? Perhaps the course can be completed and certified, but an NVQ not awarded if portfolio isn't completed?

It seems as though the industry is moving more toward evidence based qualifications, with an emphasis on NVQ and completion of the AM2 trade test, but that was the expected end point for newly qualified sparks long prior to 2016.

 

[DMElec.1]

I'm a bit confused here as the first sentence mentions gaining C&G lvl3 - I would have thought that would be NVQ lvl 3.

Which level 3 City & Guilds course did you complete?

I agree, however without knowing which NVQ (is it in cookery?) wed be in the dark - I wondered if hes actually referring to the 2391, which is a pre requisit - dear poster if you list what you have we may be able to assist you further.

 

[nicebutdim]

I agree, however without knowing which NVQ (is it in cookery?) wed be in the dark - I wondered if hes actually referring to the 2391, which is a pre requisit - dear poster if you list what you have we may be able to assist you further.

OP mentions they completed 2391 after the C&G level 3. It's likely they completed a C&G electrical installation course, but not the portfolio, as otherwise they'd have gained an NVQ at that level. Problem here is they may have completed theory and practical modules, but haven't demonstrated any site experience (portfolio) or competency (AM2) which is perhaps an understandable issue for schemes.

 

[DMElec.1]

OP mentions they completed 2391 after the C&G level 3. It's likely they completed a C&G electrical installation course, but not the portfolio, as otherwise they'd have gained an NVQ at that level. Problem here is they may have completed theory and practical modules, but haven't demonstrated any site experience (portfolio) or competency (AM2) which is perhaps an understandable issue for schemes.

Hmmm, good point, bet you've nailed it. Mines in cookery but no one's asked to see my portfolio thank god

 

[UNG]

Undertaking an NVQ level 3 now seems excessive for the work I actually want to do considering my previous experience and qualifications.

Have you done the AM2 which seems to be the other required qualification these days

NVQ 3 seems like a bit of an undertaking considering they would have happily signed me up if I'd have applied a few months earlier .

Even if you had signed up back then when the entry requirements changed I believe you had two years to meet the new entry requirements or you would fail the subsequent assessment and be removed from the CPS so there is no real escape from doing the NVQ3

 

[DMElec.1]

I agree with UNG and if you don't have your AM2 you really should. You need to show you have the equivalent to- NVQ LVL3 (relevant to requirements) AM2 (Equivalent for this being an AM2) and 18th edition (again the equivalent to this is the very thing itself). Only grey area is the NVQ LVL3 but that's pretty clear if you ask NAPIT NICEICICEICIC etc. Good luck

 

[David1977m]

I’m guessing he has the C&G L3 diploma 2365 which isn’t a NVQ and doesn’t make you an electrician until you’ve completed the NVQ3 and AM2. On the 2365 you even have to sign a form telling you on completion you are not an electrician after completing the course. It just allows you to apply for jobs as a Trainee Electrician (Stage 3) on the ECS system and complete the NVQ

 

[jcelec]

It is the C&G level 2 and 3 Diploma I have. I have the old 2330 Level 2 (2008!) and the 2365 Level 3. I also have 2391 inspection and testing and 18th edition.

One of the comments stated "until you’ve completed the NVQ3 and AM2 you're not an Electrician". Really? Yet I personally know plenty of very experienced, competent and successful (scheme registered) people who also do to not have an NVQ3. But they're not Electricians?? What are they then?
Lots of people never bothered with the NVQ3 because they never needed the JIB gold card. This applies to lots self employed domestic sparks who have no need to go on commercial sites.
NVQ3 wasn't a prerequisite to joining a CPS until fairly recently. So as long as these people stay in the schemes they are fine. Unless they make it mandatory for pre-existing members to undertake the NVQ, I can't imagine why they ever would?

So the situation I'm currently in is of someone who wants to work purely on domestic installations installing EV chargers. That's it. Has been assessed by and allowed to join a CPS (last assessment over 2 years ago ), was still working in the industry and signing certificates until 15 months ago. But now I need an NVQ3 to do what I was already doing before.

I could go and work for a company tomorrow with my quals and install EV chargers under the firms CPS registration.
But I want to do it self employed. But without NVQ3, this no longer seems to be an option.

I would argue that a level 3 city and Guilds diploma along with the inspection and testing qualification should be enough to undertake the work I want to carry out. Especially with years of demonstrable experience.

I know for a fact that there are companies trying to break into the renewables/EV market who are "upskilling" people in droves right now to fulfill EV charge point installer roles. People who have literally no prior on site electrical installation experience.

I have many years of experience in the Electrical industry and I'm more than capable and competent to carry out the work.

 

[DMElec.1]

It is the C&G level 2 and 3 Diploma I have. I have the old 2330 Level 2 (2008!) and the 2365 Level 3. I also have 2391 inspection and testing and 18th edition.

One of the comments stated "until you’ve completed the NVQ3 and AM2 you're not an Electrician". Really? Yet I personally know plenty of very experienced, competent and successful (scheme registered) people who also do to not have an NVQ3. But they're not Electricians?? What are they then?
Lots of people never bothered with the NVQ3 because they never needed the JIB gold card. This applies to lots self employed domestic sparks who have no need to go on commercial sites.
NVQ3 wasn't a prerequisite to joining a CPS until fairly recently. So as long as these people stay in the schemes they are fine. Unless they make it mandatory for pre-existing members to undertake the NVQ, I can't imagine why they ever would?

So the situation I'm currently in is of someone who wants to work purely on domestic installations installing EV chargers. That's it. Has been assessed by and allowed to join a CPS (last assessment over 2 years ago ), was still working in the industry and signing certificates until 15 months ago. But now I need an NVQ3 to do what I was already doing before.

I could go and work for a company tomorrow with my quals and install EV chargers under the firms CPS registration.
But I want to do it self employed. But without NVQ3, this no longer seems to be an option.

I would argue that a level 3 city and Guilds diploma along with the inspection and testing qualification should be enough to undertake the work I want to carry out. Especially with years of demonstrable experience.

I know for a fact that there are companies trying to break into the renewables/EV market who are "upskilling" people in droves right now to fulfill EV charge point installer roles. People who have literally no prior on site electrical installation experience.

I have many years of experience in the Electrical industry and I'm more than capable and competent to carry out the work.

Guess you have answered this for yourself -'But I want to do it self employed. But without NVQ3, this no longer seems to be an option' not totally true, but you'll need an equivalent IF you want to register with a scheme, how good/experienced etc is irrelevant re schemes, self employment is fine (as that's what you state you want) but you won't be on a scheme. Hope this helps, phone up a college, in some cases they will actually hand out an NVQ, (assessors statement not mine) and you'd have to be hellishly impressive, (assessors statement also) but it depends on your experience, so worth asking a college.

 

[jcelec]

The cost of notifying the local building department is about 200 pound per certificate isn't it? That would just be too much profit to be giving away on each job. It's not really feasible. Plus, customers will want OZEV registered EV installers, pre requisite to joining that.... CPS membership!

 

[DMElec.1]

Find a business that isn't with a scheme, you'll be hard pressed, the reason is what you are outlining. Talk to a college, they will be able to guide you. Most local authorities don't even know about certifying, as...most independent electricians are with a scheme, it's a vicious circle, and one that ends and starts with self certification call a college, I cannot recommend anything else, all the best.

 

[David1977m]

Your best option is to do the City & Guilds 2346-03 Experienced Worker NVQ Level 3, it should be easy to do on what you are saying and can be rattled off in no time.
So you are saying following the UK Governments CPS guidelines you are not classed as competent but feel it's unfair that because you only have a 2365 L3 theory qualification and it shouldn't stop you.

As for the Level 3 2365 you have to sign a waver before you are sent the certificate, it clearly states the following and has done since they first started doing the 2365.
"When you have successfully completed this qualification you will be at an Improver/Electrician’s Mate level."

So according to your own words you aren't a qualified electrician and never have been. I'm not saying you may feel skilled but you never met the criteria to be an electrician. If you don't believe me on the 2365 feel free to either get in touch with them and ask or go to their website and see the 2365 Level 3 Diploma in Electrical Installations (Buildings and Structures) Learner Declaration Form.

I'm not trying to be awkward as I'm not a approved Electrician either and I have both your qualifications and an Electrical engineering masters degree and several level 4 electrical qualifications as well. At some point I might do the NVQ3 but I don't do installations so I don't know, it would be more for fun.

 

[jcelec]

I hear what you're saying and I don't dispute it.
But you have to understand what I'm saying, I could have legitimately applied and re registered with Napit six months ago and setup and gone out working and been self sufficient in terms of signing off work etc. As lots of other people are! And have been for years. That might not be an "electrician" as far as the JIB's concerned but I think someone in that situation would quite rightly call themselves an electrician? As I'm sure their customers do if they're paying qualified person/scheme member to do a job and getting a legitimate certificate for the work? I'm not sure what else else would you call them?

Personally I think the way the industry has been regulated over the years is a mess. And I can't help thinking a lot of this just has to do with making money.
They say there's a massive skills shortage in this country, surely they're going to be short even more so with the demand for renewable energy and EV etc?

I think the schemes really need to rethink this because slamming the door in people's faces who are experienced and competent in doing these jobs isn't going to help. I'm in a position where I'm able to set up on my own but I'm being prevented from doing so. I don't want to work for a firm and make money for someone else! Not everyone's gone down the apprenticeship route and it's not is it necessary in many cases.
I'm currently not working in the industry as I've had a break of just over a year. For me to provide an NVQ portfolio of evidence potentially means taking a job as an improver or mate etc which isn't feasible for me.

I have the NVQ3 scope of work in front of me and much of it is stuff I could already evidence from past work. But, there are a few criteria on there which I wouldn't be able to evidence currently as they are more common in a commercial installations. Pyro is one example. I was never shown how to do it it in college and never had any cause to use it in domestic installations. Cable tray is another, although I did a bit of that in college years ago and do have some (limited) experience of that in the field. But, I'd never need to use either of those things on a domestic EV charger installation anyway! Pretty much all my previous work is domestic. Which is all I'm interested in doing.

I've actually spoken to a few training centres and they said it's pointless doing the NVQ3 unless you're full-time working in the industry.
I thought it might be possible to fill in the gaps in the training center and use that as evidence but apparently apparently not.
I just think it would be more sensible for the CPS's to offer limited scope accreditation to people working in specific sectors such as EV, allowing them to self certify installations.
I don't disagree that there's a need for people to evidence that they are able to put the things they have learned into practice in the field.
But the scope of an NVQ3 goes beyond what's really required specifically for a lot of roles.

 

[jcelec]

Your best option is to do the City & Guilds 2346-03 Experienced Worker NVQ Level 3, it should be easy to do on what you are saying and can be rattled off in no time.

This is what Napit suggested and I have considered it. But being temporarily out of the industry would make it difficult to get the evidence for the portfolio. As I mentioned earlier there are a couple of things within the scope that I haven't got previous evidence to draw on as there more commercial installation and I've been almost entirely domestic.