A reminder to everyone - FatallyFlawed - Child Plug Socket Covers Campaign

Discuss A reminder to everyone - FatallyFlawed - Child Plug Socket Covers Campaign in the Electricians' Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

If you look on the Fatally Flawed web site you will find more information. As I said they are classified as a “TOY”. Stupid but true!

So at the end of the day all you can do as an electrician is recommend their removal.

OFSTED just dither and will not make a positive decision regarding their removal from nurseries and schools, it’s down the owners to make the decision.
 
Already banned them from our house when our eldest arrived three years ago, just thought they were pointless. Didn't realise just how dangerous they were. I'll remember to check if they are using them at our kids pre school.
 
The British Standard is more than sufficient, these "safety covers" are just an attempt to create a market by instilling fear and doubt in the consumer's mind.
Such a practice is prohibited in some situations, as it should be in this instance

Mikep
 
Tony said:
If you look on the Fatally Flawed web site you will find more information. As I said they are classified as a “TOY”. Stupid but true!

So at the end of the day all you can do as an electrician is recommend their removal.

OFSTED just dither and will not make a positive decision regarding their removal from nurseries and schools, it’s down the owners to make the decision.
Click to expand...

So you go into a nursery to do a periodic and you find a toy jammed into every socket outlet; and you're going to leave that site with no more than a recommendation.
 
seftonbarn said:
So you go into a nursery to do a periodic and you find a toy jammed into every socket outlet; and you're going to leave that site with no more than a recommendation.
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I’m sorry but please don’t shoot the messenger, I didn’t make up the regulations.

If I had my way there would be legislation against them. But it’s up the higher powers than us mere mortals to get off their fat arses to make a decision. The IET are aware of the problem, but……….

I’ve been against them since my son was born 27 years ago, my brother, also an electrical engineer even bought some for us. He was offended when I threw them in the bin until I showed him the problems with them. He removed them as soon as he got home. There again he was a cheapskate and had fitted Crabtree sockets in his house, were I’d fitted MK. I defy anyone to push something in the a MK socket with the cam shutters. Even for someone with the knowledge of how they work it isn’t easy.

I’m just trying to be the messenger, as I hope you and others will be.
 
With all the evidence compiled in such a professional idiot proof format how can the government still allow these ridiculously dangerous pieces of plastic to be sold in the uk?
 
We can only campaign against them for now. But as time passes we may make progress. The big problem is TIME!

I’m sorry but at the moment it’s the best I / we can offer.
 
was looking at a relatives house where there was a child and i explained to them about this fatally flawed campaign, yet they insisted they were more protective. they then told me to try and take them off and it really did take a load of force to pull it out, much more then a child would be able to do anyways.
 
simpson93 said:
was looking at a relatives house where there was a child and i explained to them about this fatally flawed campaign, yet they insisted they were more protective. they then told me to try and take them off and it really did take a load of force to pull it out, much more then a child would be able to do anyways.
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It is common for parents to report that small children can remove socket covers much more easily than they can themselves. there are a number of examples of this on our user comments page.

Because plugs have tightly specified dimensions, the force required to insert and remove them is really a function of the design of the socket and its contacts. However, because no socket covers are made to the correct dimensions of a plug then it is common for them to be either significantly easier to remove or significantly harder, depending on the particular combination of socket cover and socket. If the socket cover takes a lot of force to remove then that is a good indicator of a cover which has oversize and/or incorrectly spaced pins, both of which can cause permanent damage to a socket!

Parents tend to think that a hard to remove cover is a good thing, they find it difficult to understand that it probably means they have caused damage.

The Electrical Safety Council has published a leaflet warning about incorrectly sized pins on sub-standard chargers, this says: "If the charger does not easily plug into a socket, the pins may be the wrong size or length, or the distance between the pins may be wrong. If pins do not fit properly into the socket, overheating, arcing and mechanical damage can occur to both the socket and the charger, which can be dangerous." Strangely the ESC are unconcerned about incorrectly sized pins on socket covers, even though the potential for mechanical damage (and therefore subsequent poor contacts) is exactly the same!
 
Tony said:
There again he was a cheapskate and had fitted Crabtree sockets in his house, were I’d fitted MK. I defy anyone to push something in the a MK socket with the cam shutters. Even for someone with the knowledge of how they work it isn’t easy.
Click to expand...

I assume by cam shutters you are referring to the sockets that had the twisting shutters on the L & N if so they were that good that a HTM was issued highlighting safety issues with them and they were banned from health authority sites in favour of Crabtree, the issue being that you could insert a 2 pin plug and for that matter a 3 pin plug with a missing or broken earth pin or a continental shuko type plug. Hence why MK returned to the original shutter type
 
simpson93 said:
was looking at a relatives house where there was a child and i explained to them about this fatally flawed campaign, yet they insisted they were more protective. they then told me to try and take them off and it really did take a load of force to pull it out, much more then a child would be able to do anyways.
Click to expand...

If they take more force to remove than that exerted to remove a normal plug top then what damage are they doing to the socket these things are quite prone to breaking and leaving pins in the socket and IMO the tighter they are the more likely this is to happen leaving the socket in a dangerous condition
 
UNG said:
I assume by cam shutters you are referring to the sockets that had the twisting shutters on the L & N if so they were that good that a HTM was issued highlighting safety issues with them and they were banned from health authority sites in favour of Crabtree, the issue being that you could insert a 2 pin plug and for that matter a 3 pin plug with a missing or broken earth pin or a continental shuko type plug. Hence why MK returned to the original shutter type
Click to expand...
That is a very interesting snippet about MK. The draft of the next revision of BS 1363 includes a clause to ensure that it will be impossible to insert a two pin plug. To be fair to MK, the Logic Plus range uses a three pin shutter opening method where the earth pin insertion unlocks the mechanism to allow simultaneous insertion of the other two pins, quite different from the original method.
 
Thanks UNG. Useful information. As you all know I’ve never really done domestic so this is the first I’ve heard about the modifications the MK shutter system. By the sounds of it we’re going to have to be safe crackers to defeat a socket.

View attachment 12761
 
Tony said:
Thanks UNG. Useful information. As you all know I’ve never really done domestic so this is the first I’ve heard about the modifications the MK shutter system. By the sounds of it we’re going to have to be safe crackers to defeat a socket.
Click to expand...

Tony now there's a thought a combination code operated switch to turn the socket on how safe would that be
 
Here's a thought, for all parents and childminders, how bout keeping an eye on your kids?? Or maybe just teaching them that sticking their fingers in a socket is a nno no? , I'm 35 yrs old, the eldest of 4 children and not once did we ever have these things in the house, and not once have I or my siblings ever thought about sticking a finger in a socket!!
 
jase said:
Here's a thought, for all parents and childminders, how bout keeping an eye on your kids?? Or maybe just teaching them that sticking their fingers in a socket is a nno no? , I'm 35 yrs old, the eldest of 4 children and not once did we ever have these things in the house, and not once have I or my siblings ever thought about sticking a finger in a socket!!
Click to expand...

some kids do tho...its easy to say keep an eye on your kids,but you cant stalk their every move..
 
Im going to add a link on my site this week, has any one made a facebook page for this campaign yet?
Social media can be a great tool for spreading the word now days and gaining supporters.
 
Have forwarded link to my OH who works in a general practice surgery, they have now removed all these covers and passed on info to other surgeries in the area.
 
jase said:
BBC News - A universal plug socket... at last?

Cant see these having shutters on them
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Thank you Jase! I actually heard the original broadcast by Peter Day on BBC, but I must have misheard because I thought he was describing a situation where the Chinese hotel was fitted with both Chinese sockets (similar to Australian) and BS 1363. Now you have drawn our attention to this article I am horrified as what is shown is a wall mounted version of the truly horrible and dangerous "universal adaptor" made by a number of Chinese companies, and usually marked "For Export Only". You can see several examples on FatallyFlawed's sister website at Adaptors They usually come without any form of shutter, but some have rather ineffectual shutters which can usually be opened by simply pushing on either shutter, so they do not actually prevent foreign bodies being inserted. Another characterstic of this universal sockets is that because you can put so many differently shaped and oriented pins into them, no pin is actually held securely and the contact is always bad.

In any case, there is no way that the socket shown will meet BS 1363, and they are therefore completely illegal in the UK. I noted above (#145) that the draft of the next revision of BS 1363 includes a clause to ensure that it will be impossible to insert a two pin plug, that provision would mean that any such universal socket would be illegal.

The BBC web page includes a quote from an IET representative, but that gentleman was unaware that his quote would be used in conjunction with a picture of such an obviously dangerous socket.
 
Has any1 else had problems with jib gradeing have all requirtements 4 approved gradeing n been niceic qual suoervisor yet carnt get graded because a training contract from jtl is missing
 
Cant believe how dangerous the "safety" covers are!!!
Had them fitted all round our house when our 2.5 yr old was younger - we wont be using them again tho!!!
Quite disturbing really!

I agree with the suggestion of leaflets to give out to people.
 
Our daughter bought some when the grandson started crawling. She wasn't impressed when I went round her flat taking them all out, until I explained things of course
 
Popped round to my daughter's place after work today and found the health visitor there to see how my grandson is getting on, she was very pleased with his development but asked my daughter why she had no socket covers since she advised her last time to get some.
I started on about this campaign and how dangerous these things can be but it was like talking to a wall. She is absolutely convinced that every home with a toddler should have them and that it's tantamount to neglect not to. She wasn't too impressed when I pointed out the likelyhood of her knowing more about electrical accessories than me was nil.
If young parents are being told this by someone supposedly in the know then is it any wonder that they're still on sale so the health visitors are going to get an email from me.
 
Health visitors and social workers can't stand them from when I did a lot of work for a local health authority and was in their offices doing some repairs and they were talking about some of their patients like they were $$$$$ $$$$ (fill in the blanks as you see fit) they also seem to believe they are a higher form of life
 
This is an excellent post, I had been telling anyone I came across using these; to remove them as I had seen a report in my local newspaper about a three year old that had done just this and ended up in A&E, I kept the article in my wallet to show people who had doubts as lay people do.
 
William Waite said:
This is an excellent post, I had been telling anyone I came across using these; to remove them as I had seen a report in my local newspaper about a three year old that had done just this and ended up in A&E, I kept the article in my wallet to show people who had doubts as lay people do.
Click to expand...

Thank you William, can you please provide further details? A date would be very helpful, and the name of the newspaper it appeared in. If you could post an image of the article that would be terrific!
 
I hate the things i did send a picture of a pin that had broken off in a socket leaving the exposed terminals to the ESC they told me they hadnt been aware of the problem and will be looking in to it , i shall take the socket to elex with me next week and give it to the ESC , i printed the article off the fatally floored wesite and gave it to our local community center who instantly removed them all from the sockets the ones that kept comming back that is i kept removing them and they were put back i have also sent the link to a customer of mine who insisted they were required like talking to a brick wall
hope you dont mind me using you info fatally flawed
 
nickblake said:
I hate the things i did send a picture of a pin that had broken off in a socket leaving the exposed terminals to the ESC they told me they hadnt been aware of the problem and will be looking in to it , i shall take the socket to elex with me next week and give it to the ESC , i printed the article off the fatally floored wesite and gave it to our local community center who instantly removed them all from the sockets the ones that kept comming back that is i kept removing them and they were put back i have also sent the link to a customer of mine who insisted they were required like talking to a brick wall
hope you dont mind me using you info fatally flawed
Click to expand...

Thank you Nick, that is the sort of thing which should make a difference! The ESC has heard from FatallyFlawed many times. They are inconsistent on the subject of the dangers of mis-fitting plug-in devices. 3 Years ago, about a year after the FatallyFlawed campaign started, ESC issued a press release which claims that there is no evidence of danger caused by socket covers, and yet they have also published the “ELECTRICAL CHARGERS – buyer’s guide” which states: “If the charger does not easily plug into a socket, the pins may be the wrong size or length, or the distance between the pins may be wrong. If pins do not fit properly into the socket, overheating, arcing and mechanical damage can occur to both the socket and the charger, which can be dangerous.” I find it difficult to understand why ESC believes that incorrectly fitting chargers are a problem, but incorrectly fitting socket covers are not! I am sure that the ESC would like to hear from more Electricians who understand that there is a real problem here!!
 
Never did bother to to fit socket covers when my kids were young, thought they were a total waste of money and now, as it turns out, I find that they could also have been very dangerous.
Thanks for bringing this to light Tony.
 
In late 2010 Clippasafe modified their socket cover (also sold as Boots and John Lewis brands). Having denied their product was unsafe, they modified to remove a couple of the specific problems, they made it no longer possible to poke a pin through the hole in the cover, and they lengthened the dummy L and N pins to stop the "pop out" effect.
Clippasafe_new_detail.jpg
But at the same time they messed with the dummy earth and introduced new problems. Clippasafe have no concept of how to design something which can be safely inserted into a UK socket! It is very important that all of the pins should be the correct size and shape, this “earth pin” completely fails to meet that requirement.

Here are some examples of reviews of the new version on Amazon:
"The top prong is tapered at the top, therefore when trying to insert them into the socket they will not go into the socket."
"I bought these for a toddler group and had to throw them out. They needed a hammer to put into sockets and very difficult to remove. A total waste of money."
"At first I was disappointed because I couldn't fit them into the socket outlets, it was to hard. I gave them another try and it finally fit, pushing strongly." This comment is the most telling, what did that strong push do? It may have damaged the shutter mechanism so that the shutters were left permanently open and ineffective! Or, as shown below, it may have damaged the earth contact itself.

PinDetail.jpg DamageDetail.jpg

The pictures on the left show an earth pin contact from a common type of socket, this is a Marbo from B&Q, but the older MK style is also like this, as a Duraplug multi-way adaptor. The contact is visible at the face of the socket and relies on the shape of the earth pin to allow it to enter. You can clearly see that the end of the real earth pin is shaped to fit, BS 1363 requires that the tip of the earth pin must be no more than 2mm wide, sockets are designed with the space between the empty contacts about 3mm. Compare this to the tip of the Clippasafe pin which is the full 4mm width of the pin, you can see that this cannot possibly fit! An adult who forces in a cover like this can cause real damage, as shown in the other pictures.

The first picture is a close-up of the same contacts, they are equally spaced in the earth pin hole, and the shutter opening device sits between them. The Clippasafe cover was then pushed hard into the socket and bent the contacts! You can see this in the centre picture, the left hand contact is now lower (and further back) than it was, the right hand contact is even more out of place. The third picture is the same view as the centre one, but with the back of the socket removed to allow it to be lit from the rear for a clearer picture. This socket is now damaged beyond safe use, the contacts have been bent so badly that a real earth pin will no longer fit! It would have to be replaced, and all due to the complete incompetence of the Clippasafe designer who did not bother to find out about the correct size and shape!!!

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has found such damged sockets.


 
Hi I,m new to the site and have just read the fatally flawed campain, good grief I had no idea.
WHY are they still being sold by reputable shops?
They should be banned immediatly
 
What if scare tactics of potential hazards especially concerning children usually go along with a preventative product with a huge marketing campaign.
A simple, logical, thought out and reasoning assessment of these tactics however needs support.
thank you for drawing my attention to such a blindingly obvious problem.
 
E mailed my local Nursery,(well and well known national compnay) as i saw them in there when dropping my little on off, here is the reply


Dear Mr Crow
Thank you for your recent email raising concerns about socket covers that has been forwarded for my attention.
Prior to your email I was aware that some concern had been raised about the use of socket covers, however as these have been recommended for use in settings for a number of years by the regulators and the fact that the Institution of Engineering and Technology admit there are no cases of any children being harmed by socket covers. We have not to date taken the decision to have them removed from our settings, however I am in the process of preparing a paper for consideration at the next Exec meeting in July.
We have a number of settings some with sockets located above dado height others with them at floor level and we must consider the potential of harm. At the moment I would consider appliances left plugged in to be of a higher risk category than socket covers inserted correctly.
I will include in my paper your concerns.
If you have any further comments they would be welcome.
 
I advise people to bin these things and point them to the site.
The really annoying thing is that the people who buy them are doing it for the right reasons and I cant fault joe public for buying them.
The people who are selling them should know better and are ultimately responsible.


It would be interesting to know how may accidents these socket covers are claiming to prevent, if any, and what the overall effect is. I.E. do they cause more accidents than they prevent.
 
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