Advice needed on wiring issue

[Solly26]

Hi all, let me start by saying in no way am I a qualified electrician but do have some basic knowledge from having worked as an apprentice in the past. I am not confident in carrying out any electrical work so I will not be doing any electrical work. I am here for advice.
Now thats out of the way, let me tell you what the problem is.

I had an appointmet to have a smart meter fitted. When the guy turned up he tested my sockets and said I have a fault on my circuit. All the sockets in my home were showing the same fault. He mentioned the polarity is reversed and could not go ahead with the installation until I get the fault rectified.

After he left I decided to check the wiring on my sockets and they seem to be fine, I then had a look at my consumer unit as I was curious. All the wiring looked correctly wired and as it should but I spotted the Tails going in to the consumer unit were reversed. (you can just about see see the colour of the tails in the picture)

I would like to know if this is what is causing the fault I am experiencing and if this is dangerous? Everything seems to be working. I have been living in this property for the last 7 years but am worried now incase a fire breaks out or risk of electrocution. Please can you advise me what I should be expected to pay to get this rectified? There are so many ripp off merchants out there and I dont want to get ripped off for something that seems a simple fix.

Any advice will be most apprecited.

Thanks

Solly

 

[littlespark]

There’s not enough detail in the photograph to show.
Yes, the blue and brown tails are wrong way round at the mainswitch, but it might be same at other end.

Can you photograph a wider shot showing fuse, meter, consumer unit etc.

 

[James]

From the picture it would seem likely that you do in fact have a reversed polarity.

the largest danger in this setup is to Anyone working on the electrical systems encountering unexpected live cables.

providing o thing else is found, I would expect that to be corrected and tested within the hour for any competent electrician.

 

[Solly26]

There’s not enough detail in the photograph to show.
Yes, the blue and brown tails are wrong way round at the mainswitch, but it might be same at other end.

Can you photograph a wider shot showing fuse, meter, consumer unit etc.

Cheers for your input mate, I have attached more photos.

 

[Solly26]

From the picture it would seem likely that you do in fact have a reversed polarity.

the largest danger in this setup is to Anyone working on the electrical systems encountering unexpected live cables.

providing o thing else is found, I would expect that to be corrected and tested within the hour for any competent electrician.

Thhanks for chiming in James

 

[Midwest]

I would also suggest your meter to cu connections are incorrect. I would get an electrician to verify asap.

I would also might suggest the installation needs isolating until that happens.

 

[Rumyah]

Hi all, let me start by saying in no way am I a qualified electrician but do have some basic knowledge from having worked as an apprentice in the past. I am not confident in carrying out any electrical work so I will not be doing any electrical work. I am here for advice.
Now thats out of the way, let me tell you what the problem is.

I had an appointmet to have a smart meter fitted. When the guy turned up he tested my sockets and said I have a fault on my circuit. All the sockets in my home were showing the same fault. He mentioned the polarity is reversed and could not go ahead with the installation until I get the fault rectified.

After he left I decided to check the wiring on my sockets and they seem to be fine, I then had a look at my consumer unit as I was curious. All the wiring looked correctly wired and as it should but I spotted the Tails going in to the consumer unit were reversed. (you can just about see see the colour of the tails in the picture)

I would like to know if this is what is causing the fault I am experiencing and if this is dangerous? Everything seems to be working. I have been living in this property for the last 7 years but am worried now incase a fire breaks out or risk of electrocution. Please can you advise me what I should be expected to pay to get this rectified? There are so many ripp off merchants out there and I dont want to get ripped off for something that seems a simple fix.

Any advice will be most apprecited.

Thanks

SollyView attachment 93560

Cheers for your input mate, I have attached more photos.

Thhanks for chiming in James

Cheers for your input mate, I have attached more photos.

Mixed brands ,RCD upside down ,missing seal on cut out looks like it’s Diy

 

[ImpededLoop]

Like others have said, you've got reversed polarity due to the meter tails. It does need sorting out ASAP.

The who consumer unit needs sorting out with the correct RCD and circuit breakers.

I'd recommend that you employ an electrician to carry out a condition report on the whole installation. It may be that the consumer unit is an indication of the safety of the installation as a whole.

 

[loz2754]

If you own the property, get an electrical inspection and test done as soon as possible. If the condition of the consumer unit and associated wiring is anything to go by, there may well be other potentially dangerous things in other parts of the installation.

If you are a tenant, the landlord is bound by law to ensure and maintain a safe installation. And since 2020, has to have an inspection and test done every 5 years as a minimum.

 

[loz2754]

Like others have said, you've got reversed polarity due to the meter tails. It does need sorting out ASAP.

The who consumer unit needs sorting out with the correct RCD and circuit breakers.

I'd recommend that you employ an electrician to carry out a condition report on the whole installation. It may be that the consumer unit is an indication of the safety of the installation as a whole.

Beat me to it...

 

[littlespark]

Hmm… no wonder the meter monkey walked away.

 

[Solly26]

Thanks for all your input, I'm gonna find a local electrician to check the whole installation as some of you have pointed out there could be other faults by looking the way the consumer unit was wired. It has been this way since I moved in to the property and no work has been done on it since. I would never have known there was a fault had it not been for the British gas guy that tested my sockets.

Thanks again and I wish you all a very happy and prosperous new year.

Solly

 

[Mikegh]

I can see the top is reversed according to switch logo

Can't see the bottom but if polarity is reversed at the main isolator well that's a major fault

 

[Mikegh]

Reminds me of my inspectors story of the kitchen fitter killed when he turned off the cooker mcb with mains reversed

Comes up here too about only an mcb being needed to isolator a cooker

Of course no electrician is going to get himself killed cos we never touch anything til it's proven dead locally

 

[Mikegh]

Hmm… no wonder the meter monkey walked away.

Actually had an interview for smart meter install here
Was shocked at the bare minimum checks , basically just a straight swop and possibly a polarity check at the meter location

My basic premise going in to the interview was that if the installation wasn't safe you would walk away as happened here

 

[Mikegh]

Oops didnt realise I was on page 2 , can see the busbar now anyhow bottom left

 

[westward10]

BG guy found the fault now there is a thing.

 

[PEG]

BG guy found the fault now there is a thing.

I've seen BG leave work,worse that the OP's

 

[pc1966]

I would like to know if this is what is causing the fault I am experiencing and if this is dangerous? Everything seems to be working

Yes, the swapped tails is the cause (as seen in the later photos).

Yes, it is dangerous. In fact it is VERY dangerous (C1 fault, like exposed live parts) for the obvious reason that you could get a shock from the neutral cables, and for the less obvious reason then in the event of a N-E fault there is nothing to limit the current beyond the 60-100A supply fuse! So it presents a very high risk of a fire in even from damage to an appliance cable (as 13A plugs are only fused in the L path).

Circuits with RCD protection still have some means of disconnection, but the fault let-through energy of a RCD is very high as it takes typically tens of milliseconds to disconnect (far more than MCB or fuse on high current fault) so the fire risk is still very, very real.

 

[Mikegh]

Yes good point , protection can back up the dno fuse

 

[Lucien Nunes]

As above, an EICR is recommended as there may be other problems but don't delay with this, get the reversed polarity rectified ASAP even if nothing else. Basically nothing in your house is fused against an earth fault because the fuses and MCBs are all now in the neutral, not the line. The fact that it was not spotted on installation means basically no testing was done, as it is a mandatory test on completion.

The fact that you have not experienced any problems is just down to luck, not an indication that this is not highly dangerous. A short-circuit in a small appliance e.g. if the flex on a table lamp gets damaged, is likely to cause a fireball as neither the plug fuse nor the circuit MCB will operate. Get it sorted tomorrow!

 

[baldelectrician]

What a riot

The exisitng consumer unit appears to be a Proteus and the RCD has apprently failed (and been repalced)#

I would suggest a test and a new consumer unit as a minimum, very dodgy to leave as is.

I use Hager units as they have parts available for a long time

 

[pc1966]

The existing consumer unit appears to be a Proteus and the RCD has apparently failed (and been replaced)#

I would suggest a test and a new consumer unit as a minimum, very dodgy to leave as is.

It is pretty rough.

At the very least they could call in to CEF and get Proteus replacements so they are the right-way for RCD and fit the busbar!

I use Hager units as they have parts available for a long time

Good choice.

 

[Colfly]

Thanks for all your input, I'm gonna find a local electrician to check the whole installation as some of you have pointed out there could be other faults by looking the way the consumer unit was wired. It has been this way since I moved in to the property and no work has been done on it since. I would never have known there was a fault had it not been for the British gas guy that tested my sockets.

Thanks again and I wish you all a very happy and prosperous new year.

Solly

First as all have said your board is a disaster to start with. as for your mains tails from the meter whoever installed them made a mistake as the inner insulation does not go to the correct terminals but if you look at the meter the Live connections are on the outside of the four with Neutral being the middle two. They do not look as if they are wrong polarity but the wrong mains tail in the connectors. Your quickest and reliable way is to go to B&Q or Screwfix and buy a socket tester that tells you polarity is right or wrong. If wrong you need a qualified electrician to look at your installation ASAP. I am a qualified electrician retired who worked in industrial all my working life I do have my Test and Inspection C&G B.S.7371 and CompEX certification and would never allow anyone to leave an installation like yours. Your RCD is upside down therfore will not trip in the fault condition as your load is on the incomer and will not see the fault. Remember any work now carried out on your main board will have to meet regulations and your Proteus plastic board certainly does not.

 

[James]

Your RCD is upside down therfore will not trip in the fault condition as your load is on the incomer and will not see the fault.

I think you need to brush up on how an RCD works.
this statement is quite Simpley wrong.

Remember any work now carried out on your main board will have to meet regulations and your Proteus plastic board certainly does not.

the plastic board may or may not be suitable for the installation.
just because it is a plastic cover does not mean that it must be replaced in most circumstances.

however, many of the problems seen would easily be fixed by replacing the consumer unit for a modern one with the correct breakers inside.

 

[Colfly]

I think you need to brush up on how an RCD works.
this statement is quite Simpley wrong.


the plastic board may or may not be suitable for the installation.
just because it is a plastic cover does not mean that it must be replaced in most circumstances.

however, many of the problems seen would easily be fixed by replacing the consumer unit for a modern one with the correct breakers inside.

Hi James just to say no I do not need to brush up on how an RCD works but any electrician who takes pride in his work would not put the RCD upside down. I agree it still will work but not very nice to see. If anyone who worked for me were to install upside down any breaker his work mates would have ripped him a new one and there were a good few electricians.
As for the Board being plastic they are illegal to install now due to fire brigade recommendations. If anyone were to work on that board they would be required by regulations to use PUEWR as there guide and install a manufactured metal DB. As when there was fires these could and did put out Heavy black toxic smoke.
My personnel dealings with Proteus equipment has not been good and I personally would never recommend the brand to anyone, but again that is my opinion

 

[DPG]

Hi James just to say no I do not need to brush up on how an RCD works but any electrician who takes pride in his work would not put the RCD upside down. I agree it still will work but not very nice to see. If anyone who worked for me were to install upside down any breaker his work mates would have ripped him a new one and there were a good few electricians.
As for the Board being plastic they are illegal to install now due to fire brigade recommendations. If anyone were to work on that board they would be required by regulations to use PUEWR as there guide and install a manufactured metal DB. As when there was fires these could and did put out Heavy black toxic smoke.
My personnel dealings with Proteus equipment has not been good and I personally would never recommend the brand to anyone, but again that is my opinion

Are you saying if someone does any work in a plastic consumer unit then they must change it to a metal one?

 

[telectrix]

Are you saying if someone does any work in a plastic consumer unit then they must change it to a metal one?

if that's the case, then a read up of the regs.is a good idea, i said regs., not the napit joke book.

 

[telectrix]

bugger mewhredid thatcomefrom. think i bin hacked by Russia Vulcan.

 

[brianmoooore]

It is not illegal to install a new plastic CU per se.
A RCD will operate which ever way up it is installed, and there is no regulation to say that any wording on it must be the right way up. The contravention of a reg. is that the 'on' and 'off' positions are the wrong way around when compared to the other devices present.

 

[Colfly]

Are you saying if someone does any work in a plastic consumer unit then they must change it to a metal one?

To bring up to the latest standard depending on the work. If a new circuit you would need a test if the board is plastic it fails common sense on the PUWER

 

[telectrix]

To bring up to the latest standard depending on the work. If a new circuit you would need a test if the board is plastic it fails common sense on the PUWER

by that standard red/black cable would fail. as long as the plastic CU is compliantin other ways( IP rating/correct breakers and sound terminations. you can'tinsiston replacong itifyou are just adding a newcircuit./

 

[nicebutdim]

To bring up to the latest standard depending on the work. If a new circuit you would need a test if the board is plastic it fails common sense on the PUWER

Can you please explain to me, an apprentice, exactly what bearing the Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998 have on an existing consumer unit within a domestic property? I'd really like to know as I'm stumped as to how these regulations might apply.

 

[telectrix]

christ. mytypingis getting worse than buzz's.

 

[telectrix]

To bring up to the latest standard depending on the work. If a new circuit you would need a test if the board is plastic it fails common sense on the PUWER

common sense says if it's not broke, don't fix it.

 

[nicebutdim]

common sense says if it's not broke, don't fix it.

Common sense says that regulations covering the provision and use of work equipment have no bearing on a domestic consumer unit. I could of course be wrong, which is why I've asked the OP for some clarity on the issue.

 

[freddo]

A RCD will operate which ever way up it is installed, and there is no regulation to say that any wording on it must be the right way up.

Though a few models will detonate when the test button is pressed if the supply and load connections are reversed! RCD fused connection units like doing that.

 

[brianmoooore]

RCDs usually have the neutral feed to the test circuit on the 'in' side, and the live feed to the circuit from the 'out side, or vice versa.
I came across one once where the neutral fed through one way, and the live the other. I was rewarded with a large puff of smoke and a strong burning smell when I pushed the test button, as the series resistor disintegrated. That was the last time that the test button ever worked (and was probably the first).

 

[123]

Though a few models will detonate when the test button is pressed if the supply and load connections are reversed! RCD fused connection units like doing that.

I think the old Contactum RCD's where like that

 

[Yozza19]

To bring up to the latest standard depending on the work. If a new circuit you would need a test if the board is plastic it fails common sense on the PUWER

People like you are the Bain of my life giving estate agents unsatisfactory certificates for a plastic db without any understanding or knowledge to interpret the regs

Glad you take pride in your installation works but you really need to brush up on the b*llsh*t your talking

 

[UNG]

Hi James just to say no I do not need to brush up on how an RCD works but any electrician who takes pride in his work would not put the RCD upside down. I agree it still will work but not very nice to see. If anyone who worked for me were to install upside down any breaker his work mates would have ripped him a new one and there were a good few electricians.
As for the Board being plastic they are illegal to install now due to fire brigade recommendations. If anyone were to work on that board they would be required by regulations to use PUEWR as there guide and install a manufactured metal DB. As when there was fires these could and did put out Heavy black toxic smoke.
My personnel dealings with Proteus equipment has not been good and I personally would never recommend the brand to anyone, but again that is my opinion

I think you need to brush up on more than RCD's from your comments
I think if the people you work with read this post they would almost certainly to use your phrase "rip you a new one"
Yes LFB did force changes to BS7671 but as it is not a statutory instrument it is not illegal although it may be non compliant if you depart from it's guidance, with regard to CU's the non combustible e.g. metal seems to have been interpreted by many as it MUST be metal

It is one of my pet hates how illegal rather than non compliant is frequently used even before I did the 2391 course many years ago where it was drummed into us about the statutory and non statutory documents relating to electrical work it always annoyed me how the term illegal gets used when EAWR has not been breeched and only BS7671 applies

 

[Mike Johnson]

I think @Colfly has got the idea now have to wonder if he is an electrician or a Troll.

 

[nicebutdim]

I think you need to brush up on more than RCD's from your comments
I think if the people you work with read this post they would almost certainly to use your phrase "rip you a new one"
Yes LFB did force changes to BS7671 but as it is not a statutory instrument it is not illegal although it may be non compliant if you depart from it's guidance, with regard to CU's the non combustible e.g. metal seems to have been interpreted by many as it MUST be metal

It is one of my pet hates how illegal rather than non compliant is frequently used even before I did the 2391 course many years ago where it was drummed into us about the statutory and non statutory documents relating to electrical work it always annoyed me how the term illegal gets used when EAWR has not been breeched and only BS7671 applies

Aside from the debate about plastic CUs, which could technically still be fitted, the member in question quoted regulations that weren't even relevant to the subject.

PUWER? I'm still waiting for a response about how they might be applied to the fixed wiring in a domestic installation.

 

[UNG]

PUWER? I'm still waiting for a response about how they might be applied to the fixed wiring in a domestic installation.

My advice don't hold your breath he might be a while as someone may be ripping him a new one with his comments in this thread