Advice Needed Please

[1123]

My friend and I would like to start a business doing PAT testing. We are wondering if anyone could give us some advice on the following:

What insurance is needed? and can you suggest a company?
What is a fair price per item? (The company I work for charge 60p an item..)

Any other info that you think would benefit us would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Spazz]

60p per item - WHAT!!!!!

I would only go down to 60p if there where over 300 items!

There is no money in PAT Testing at that rate!


You need:
2Mil PL
50K PI (Minimum)

You should be an electrician as well to know what your really doing!

You also need to take the C&G course as well as a minimum!


Sorry but my opinion about companies charging only £0.60 per item needs shouting!

 

[1123]

60p an item @ 200 items minimum per day they expect, don't see why they employ me to be honest.

What do you charge per item if you do it?

I done my 'training' through "PAT Training Services", which I was sent on by my company.

Do you think insurance companies won't touch us because we're not qualified Electricians? What is a ballpark figure for insurance?

Thanks in advance

 

[RWJ]

Wasn't it Megger that did some research that found it isn't financially viable to do PAT testing for any less than 97p per item

 

[Spazz]

You need to contact the insurance company tbh.

I charge £2 per item and that includes free repairs (Plugs, cables (under 1 meter), fuses).

I then reduce it as the higher the number of items.


believe it or not you can kill someone by failing to do a PAT correctly!
For example not identifying a plug has been wired wrongly (Earth and Live switched), damaged wires, etc

What equipment do you use in your company out of interest?

What equipment are you planning on buying to start your business up?

 

[Spazz]

Also how long does it take you to do 200 items?

 

[1123]

I work 8am-4pm(5 sometimes), if I can't get 200 done I don't rush and get them done just go get numbers. I rarely do get the 200 done a day, but it's what they expect. I'd rather cover myself and do my job properly than rush about just to get profits for the company. If they put the prices up I wouldn't be behind every day. I use a Kewtech KT71, It's what I was given. I imagine there is loads better however.

 

[Spazz]

So you are expected to spend 2:30 mins per item - what a joke!

Think about it!

On average it is expected that you should take 5 min per item that works out to be 17hrs!

2 days to test 200 items - 100 per day.

Do me a fav and list the whole process from unplugging an item and I will tell you if your doing it correctly!

There are companies out there like the one your working for who mess with peoples lives!

Electricity is not a game!


As a guide:
Unplug item - 10secs
Visual Check of all cables and screws, casing, plug and fuse - 1:50 mins (if your experienced)
Test using Kewtech KT71 (in your case) - 3 mins (if done correctly!)

Thats 5 mins!


Then work out the pricing:
200 items @ £0.60 per item
= £120

2 days = £60 per day
Would you be happy with this thinking you need to pay for:
Income Tax
NI
Equipment (£300/12) = £25 per month
Calibration (£60/12) = £5 per month
Business Insurance (£100/12) = £8.40 per month
Car/Van Insurance (£600/12) = £50 (PLUS)
Your Wages

If you are testing everyday
1 month = 21 working days on average
21 days x £60 = £1260 per month
Expenses = 100 per month (Plus - depending on car insurance)

Thats £1160 left for you as income - Income Tax and NI

21 days working = (21days x 9) = 189 hours per month
£1160/189 hours
= £6.14 per hour - Are you happy with this? - I would not be!

Yes doing it your companies way = £12 - but it is dangerous and one day you will kill someone or someone will die because of the way you are expected to test!

 

[Silly Sausage]

...................

Sorry but my opinion about companies charging only £0.60 per item needs shouting at!

It's a pitiful business... :-(

 

[RWJ]

Well that is 6p above the minimum wage..... but then again Nic didn't include fuel... and that's expensive!!!!

 

[Spazz]

They probably charge the customer the fuel costs just to make the extra few £s

 

[Silly Sausage]

I've noticed diesel has started to creep up in price again.
I seriously hope things don't get any worse before getting better. Grim times...

 

[1123]

2:30 is plenty time to do this, apparently. I've told them it's impossible yet they keep telling me my numbers are down. I'll get paid off before I start not doing my job right, if anything goes wrong, I'm to blame. My job title is a PAT Tester, not a sticker technician.

The process I do is.. Make sure the appliance is in fully working order - Check the outside of appliance for breaks - Unplug the appliance - check the cable properly for cracks, splits etc - check the plug for cracks, breaks, bent pins etc - check the fuse is to correct rating, if not replace - Identify the class for the PAT Tester - plug in, test and document.

£6.14 an hour? Gladly. They pay me £5 an hour. Which is why I'd like to just do it myself. I don't get how someone working is ASDA or Tesco's can get more stacking shelfs than I get for giving something the approval for electrical safety.

By choice I'd be an Electrician, not a PAT Tester.

Thanks for your replies, appreciate it

 

[Spazz]

ok for starters

Your company is breaking the law! by only paying you £5 per hour!

Contact HMRC!

Out of interest and not being racist are you a British Citizen?

They are taking you for a ride my boy!

Get a pay rise or walk - even better get on benefits - you will get more!

Or are they providing you with accommodation/meals/clothes/etc??

That is the only other way they can legally pay you £5 per hour

 

[1123]

I am British, would they need to pay me what they owe me from underpaying me? Monday morning should be interesting now. Just realised how much of a joke my company is. They provide me with 25p a mile expenses, enough stickers to reach the moon and a few pens, about it.

 

[Spazz]

They dont need to pay fuel so be wear of that!

They have to pay min wage - NI and Tax!

Personally I would call HMRC up now and let them deal with it!

They will take your boss to court and get all of the staff the money owed!

Make sure you have your wage slips

 

[Des 56]

Make sure first of all that you have all your assumed facts correct,you wouldn't want to come on here asking a question about business opportunity and end up losing your job because of misinformation causing conflict with your employer

In the pat rip off business you are beng paid poorly,but thats why the vast majority of electricians wont touch it
Its wierd having an electrical inspection that sparks wont touch,just makes the whole shambles evident to all

Why dont you try and start up part time,continue with your employment and seek out your own work,even if you can eventually take your own employers business away from them,dont let yourself be ripped off but tread carefully either way

 

[1123]

Yeah, me and my friend were talking about it, hopefully it will go somewhere but only time will tell. I'll give it a try anyways, I'm not happy where I am so I don't want to stick around. Is there anything else we should know about this?

 

[Spazz]

All I got to say is good luck

What you can do (without your employer knowing) build up a database of all his customers over the next 2 months. When HMRC come in and close him down you approach all the customers and explain what your doing and how much you can do it for, etc.

Either way - Good luck and dont get walked all over

 

[D80]

How old are you 1123?

 

[1123]

I'm 20, sadly.

 

[cloverman]

2 pence over the min wage of £4.98 then !! Still rubbish by all acounts but not illegal !!
I would recommend taking Des56's advice and tread carefully

 

[Arnold Layne]

1123,

I would think long and hard about whether you can make money at PAT testing, that's my first piece of advice, and it may seem obvious but not everyone thinks of it surprisingly enough. It is a commodity market where as you clearly state it is based on a price per unit ( 60p in your case). Secondly the customers don't actually value the service, they do it to fulfil their obligations therefore they want to spend the least amount of money on it as possible, so that drives the price down. Thirdly anyone " competent" can do it! So it is very competitive. You need to have a competitive advantage, that might be that there is no one else doing it in your area, it may be that you have access to cheap labour( unlikely if it is yourself). But your fixed costs are going to be much the same as others, insurance, kit, transport, etc. So where is your cost advantage? On your own you will need to market yourself, that costs. You need to factor all these things in before you decide to embark on this but I wish you luck!

 

[UNG]

ok for starters

Your company is breaking the law! by only paying you £5 per hour!

Contact HMRC!

Out of interest and not being racist are you a British Citizen?

They are taking you for a ride my boy!

Get a pay rise or walk - even better get on benefits - you will get more!

Or are they providing you with accommodation/meals/clothes/etc??

That is the only other way they can legally pay you £5 per hour

I think this comes under the Truck acts and is illegal coin of the realm is the payment requirement

 

[Silly Sausage]

I'm 20, sadly.

Oh bless, I wish I was your age again!

Good luck with whatever you do.

 

[Spazz]

Under the minimum wage act an employer may deduct a set amount from a employees wages for accommodation and meals.

This is what some care homes do with polish workers.


The rate is set by the act.


[h=3]The accommodation offset rate[/h]If your employer provides you with accommodation, they can count some of its value towards National Minimum Wage (NMW) pay. This is called the accommodation offset. Your employer cannot count more than the accommodation offset rate which is in force at any given time.
From 1 October 2011, the maximum amount your employer can count towards NMW pay as an accommodation offset is:

• £4.73 a day
• £33.11 a week

It makes no difference whether:

• your employer takes rent out of your wages
• you have to pay rent to your employer after receiving your wages
• your employer simply provides the accommodation as part of a package

In all cases, the accommodation offset rate is the most your employer can count towards NMW pay. It also makes no difference whether you could have chosen not to occupy the accommodation. If you do choose to occupy it, the accommodation offset applies.
[h=4]What counts as providing accommodation?[/h]As well as accommodation itself, any charges you have to pay to your employer for gas, electricity, laundry and furniture are added to the rent for the purpose of calculating the accommodation offset.
The accommodation offset applies where any of the following apply:

• the accommodation is provided in connection with your contract of employment
• keeping your job depends on occupying the accommodation
• occupying the accommodation depends on staying in your job

Taken from here

 

[1123]

Well, left that job. Got another one recently.. Bit better paid, van, work wear and all that supplied. All going swimmingly until I get told they expect 250+ tests per day! Had a meeting this morning, managing director isn't happy, boss is ****ed off and they're not "investing in me". I have a month to reach 250 tests or I'm not getting kept on. Expected me to drive 3 hours to a job, not leave until it was completed 9-10 hours and then a 3 hour drive home.. On a Friday. I worryingly look forward to the day they tell me I'm not kept on, so many unachievable targets that make me look bad. I've made a little scrap book so to speak of members of this site saying 200+ is madness and unsafe, I hope mr bossman takes note. Anyone looking for a slightly ageing (21) apprentice!?

 

[UNG]

Well, left that job. Got another one recently.. Bit better paid, van, work wear and all that supplied. All going swimmingly until I get told they expect 250+ tests per day! Had a meeting this morning, managing director isn't happy, boss is ****ed off and they're not "investing in me". I have a month to reach 250 tests or I'm not getting kept on. Expected me to drive 3 hours to a job, not leave until it was completed 9-10 hours and then a 3 hour drive home.. On a Friday. I worryingly look forward to the day they tell me I'm not kept on, so many unachievable targets that make me look bad. I've made a little scrap book so to speak of members of this site saying 200+ is madness and unsafe, I hope mr bossman takes note. Anyone looking for a slightly ageing (21) apprentice!?

If you have a collision / accident while driving you may find yourself in court, while you may not be driving under the strict regime of a tachograph you would be questioned about your duty, driving hours and breaks. Although you have not exceeded the driving hours you could be in excess of the duty hours this coupled with the minimum break requirements between each duty period

Many years ago I was involved in a multi vehicle incident that ended up in court and that was one of the lines of questioning so beware for your own safety

 

[Dave 85]

Start a business doing only PAT testing.......
I'd rather throw myself under a train.

You know what I charge per PAT test?
£5
You know why?
Cos I F'kin hate it.

60p per test might just about turn a profit if you leave your tools and tester in the van and just go in with the labels but even then its gonna be tight.

 

[Dave 85]

Its an absolute joke this whole PAT test malarky. Personally I think its a total waste of time anyway. The only way a portable appliance is likely to become lethal is through cable damage and this is something that employees themselves should look out for in day to day use.
More bloody H&S bullsh*t that just makes running a business even harder. If you ask me the government should slacken up employment laws, slacken up H&S and watch the economy grow rapidly as a result. How the hell are we expected to be able to compete with places like india and china.....
Im going of on a tangent here.... Ill shut up now

 

[Guest55]

Start a business doing only PAT testing.......
I'd rather throw myself under a train.

You know what I charge per PAT test?
£5
You know why?
Cos I F'kin hate it.

60p per test might just about turn a profit if you leave your tools and tester in the van and just go in with the labels but even then its gonna be tight.

agreed , PAT testing is the electrical equivolent of sweeping the floor but less rewarding.
even funnier is they sell quals to do this , staggering ! lol.

 

[Dave 85]

agreed , PAT testing is the electrical equivolent of sweeping the floor but less rewarding.
even funnier is they sell quals to do this , staggering ! lol.

I'd genuinley rather sweep a floor anyday.....thinking about it...I do that pretty much everyday anyway.
How the hell did you get a forum approved Troll tag...I want one!

Oh and how are ya mate? Been busy?

 

[UNG]

I find it rather at odds that this guy is doing a job that is supposed to improve safety and then his employers do totally the opposite and have him effectively working 16 hour shifts including the travelling if this isn't an incident / accident waiting to happen I don't know what is

 

[robsparky1975]

Pat testing 250 items a day,incredible,sticker bashing nothing more,cant you be transferred onto other work or is it just pat testing company.

 

[camerabloke]

that aint enough to correctly test an appliance. your talking 5 -7 mins per item minimum to test an item and log it