Advice on the best EV chargers

[R1R2Dave]

I am an NICEIC contractor but I have never installed an Electric vehicle charger. I have watched all of the relevant NICEIC webinars (The wire) on the subject and familiarised my self with all of the regulations etc and my next step is to enroll on some of the manufacturers online courses. I am asking for advice from electricians with experience of installing EV chargers regarding the best products (manufacturers of EV chargers) in their experience. What chargers do you recommend ? What is a good charger for me to start with ?
My thoughts are that the charger must have a built in RCD (type A) with full functionality which complies with regulation:
722.531.3.101 and include a test button others wise the charger will not comply with BS 7671 (unless the correct RCD type is fitted upstream)
I think that it must also have the built facility of PEN fault detection (OPEN device)
Also it must be 'smart' and also the user interface should be fairly user friendly in the APP.
Are there any manufacturers you can recommend ? before I spend time on specific manufacturer training.

Thanks

 

[timhoward]

I'll be watching this thread with interest, as I'm not much further along the road from you and have similar questions.

My observations so far:
Most charge points have built in PEN protection these days.

There is a distinction point that you have mentioned - some have a REAL built in RCD, and some have a RDC-DD. The latter need a REAL Type A RCD/RCBO upstream. It sounds like you have twigged this from what you write above.

The next distinction point - particularly pertinent to 60 amp fuses, is some have a hardware configured grid limit (a physical switch inside) and some rely on software configuration to do this. In some cases this leaves the customer able to turn off the grid limit. I'm really uncomfortable

Another distinction point - some have an installer app, which saves the agro of registering it and transferring registration to customer, or using the customers phone to set it up.

Finally, some leave the customer able to change any setting. If that is the grid limit, I worry!

I have been alternating between Zappi (which is expensive but good quality and just works) and a budget brand, trying to find a happy mid-point.

I've tried Wallbox and I've tried Project EV Apex, both of which are a little underwhelming in various ways. A long time ago I tried the original Project EV which was better in some ways (real RCD, installer app, easier CT clamp setup) but at the time was a nightmare to get connected to wifi.

What I have found I mainly want is a hardware grid limit and a simply direct CT clamp setup.
It may be a case of "you get what you pay for".

 

[R1R2Dave]

I'll be watching this thread with interest, as I'm not much further along the road from you and have similar questions.

My observations so far:
Most charge points have built in PEN protection these days.

There is a distinction point that you have mentioned - some have a REAL built in RCD, and some have a RDC-DD. The latter need a REAL Type A RCD/RCBO upstream. It sounds like you have twigged this from what you write above.

The next distinction point - particularly pertinent to 60 amp fuses, is some have a hardware configured grid limit (a physical switch inside) and some rely on software configuration to do this. In some cases this leaves the customer able to turn off the grid limit. I'm really uncomfortable

Another distinction point - some have an installer app, which saves the agro of registering it and transferring registration to customer, or using the customers phone to set it up.

Finally, some leave the customer able to change any setting. If that is the grid limit, I worry!

I have been alternating between Zappi (which is expensive but good quality and just works) and a budget brand, trying to find a happy mid-point.

I've tried Wallbox and I've tried Project EV Apex, both of which are a little underwhelming in various ways. A long time ago I tried the original Project EV which was better in some ways (real RCD, installer app, easier CT clamp setup) but at the time was a nightmare to get connected to wifi.

What I have found I mainly want is a hardware grid limit and a simply direct CT clamp setup.
It may be a case of "you get what you pay for".

Hi and thanks for replying. I have read something about the grid limit and I think this is where the current transformer comes in, which is clamped around the Line meter tail and in the 'App' it can be programmed to turn the EV charger off if the maximum demand exceeds a certain limit and is only an issue if the service head fuse is 60A. If there is a 60A main distributors fuse and the EV charger is drawing 32A and then someone in the house puts the oven on and decides to jump in the shower (an electric shower) then there are issues. My plan would be to get the fuse upgraded to 100A. I am still not quite 100% clued up on RDC-DDs (Residual Direct Current-Detection Devices). I think their purpose is to detect a fault in the PME supply (where the Neutral and Earth are combined) if for any reason the supply cable in the road is damaged and there is a break in the Neutral/earth conductor which is one cable then the earth in the property will become live at 230V (and every exposed and extraneous conductive part also) and this is what the RDC-DD will detect and then shut of the supply to the socket outlet on the EV charger. What I am getting at is you still need an RCD protecting the socket outlet that the car connects to Either Type A, F or B.
I understand your point also about the customer changing the grid limit setting (settings for the current transformer) Good point and hadn't thought about that. I have read that Zappi are good and the Tesla Generation 3 does not have built in PEN fault protection and WiFi set up is hard work.

 

[littlespark]

I’ve fitted two Hypervolt chargers for the same customer, (and my FIL, so I know he’s not going to even use the app to its full potential)

They have a “soft” limit on the app which can be set, but also a “hard” limit within the charge point using jumpers or DIN switches to set

I’m not saying they are the best, as I haven’t fitted any others… but they’re not the best known out there.


Project EV seems to be stocked everywhere including Screwfix. So if you can buy it at screwfix, then it can’t be that hard to install.

 

[buzzlightyear]

What i,m trying to get my head around it ,ok most manufacturers instructions are not straight forward,on if it has RDC-DD.
now this is where it gets complicated, customer has a TNS system
so you put in a car charger that does not need a great lot of gear .
and all of a sudden the DNO changes to TNCS then you can see what I'm getting at. i have been looking on hager about car chargers and what is required .
so the lads on here would put their requirements and chargers .

 

[R1R2Dave]

I’ve fitted two Hypervolt chargers for the same customer, (and my FIL, so I know he’s not going to even use the app to its full potential)

They have a “soft” limit on the app which can be set, but also a “hard” limit within the charge point using jumpers or DIN switches to set

I’m not saying they are the best, as I haven’t fitted any others… but they’re not the best known out there.


Project EV seems to be stocked everywhere including Screwfix. So if you can buy it at screwfix, then it can’t be that hard to install.

Thanks for that. I have just done a search on 'the best ev chargers' and Hypervolt came up in the top 10 in all 4 of my searches. Ohme and 'Easee' came up in the results a lot. The Easee chargers have a built in Type A RCD but with no test button which does not comply with the REGS. Just spoke to the NICEIC technical help and they said it is ok to fit a Type A RCD / RCBO upstream in type and selectivity in this case is not an issue so the RCD in the CU can just be 30mA. The RCD / RCBO has to be double pole so it disconnect both L&N

 

[buzzlightyear]

Just spoke to the NICEIC technical help and they said it is ok to fit a Type A RCD / RCBO upstream in type and selectivity in this case is not an issue so the RCD in the CU can just be 30mA. The RCD / RCBO has to be double pole so it disconnect both L&N

https://assets.sc.hager.com/uk/-/me...L*MTcwODA4ODYyMy42LjAuMTcwODA4ODYyMy42MC4wLjA.
this will explain every thing to know about ev charging .

 

[timhoward]

Project EV seems to be stocked everywhere including Screwfix. So if you can buy it at screwfix, then it can’t be that hard to install.

Having small fingers (or infinite patience) helps with installing ProjectEV, I reckon the designer was a gynaecologist in a former life.

 

[nicebutdim]

Having small fingers (or infinite patience) helps with installing ProjectEV, I reckon the designer was a gynaecologist in a former life.
View attachment 113268

If Aico built EV charge points...

 

[buzzlightyear]

Having small fingers (or infinite patience) helps with installing ProjectEV, I reckon the designer was a gynaecologist in a former life.

Or a mouse with big fingers.

 

[SparkySy]

I am not a fan of the project EV chargers or Rolec.
Some of the units I have fitted in the past are so fiddly, especially when trying to wrangle a 6mm SWA into them.
I always fit Zappi chargers if the customer has the money but will fit others if asked.
Zappi have been excellent with me on both delivery, service and tech support!
I have also started doing repairs to already installed units. I did one on Wednesday actually, the tether cable had a fault on the control pilot cable and would only see an EV if the cable was twisted around until it contacted.
Really nice units to install and work on, so many built in options, easy to set up and use, really good app for the customer too!
Cannot fault them as an all round good company!
Sy

 

[buzzlightyear]

I always fit Zappi chargers

With most stores now selling them like scrudfix, customer now see the how much they can get them for, so no mark up on them.

 

[nicebutdim]

With most stores now selling them like scrudfix, customer now see the how much they can get them for, so no mark up on them.

I wouldn't worry to much about what customers can buy - give them a price, tell them what they can expect in exchange for their money (in terms of service, installation and goods) and let them take it or leave it. Customers who place price ahead of all else can go to sparks prepared to work for nothing - and who probably do the bare minimum.

 

[SparkySy]

I agree^^^
I will tell customers if they want to purchase the charger themselves that is fine. It's covered by the manufacturer warranty anyway so it matters not to me. If it goes wrong after installation then it is up to them to get it sorted out with the manufacturer.
I put in a very reasonable rate for my time + materials to connect up an EV charger so am not too fussed on extra profit on the unit itself!
Sy

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

My current favourite is the Simpson and Partners as the build quality and support are second to none
Being up the road from me in Kemble I can call in factory if needed on way past when having flying lessons.
The Andersen is still a good but expensive option.
Day to day the Zappi still allows the use of CT's for load management on shared submains etc so still has a market.
Starting to see more integrated systems know such as the Givenergy charger which links to the inverters/battery and can avoid battery drain etc

 

[Lou]

Welcome to the forum!

Do any manufacturers offer training on installing them?

 

[Fatnbald]

I tell customers to make the choice and purchase their own. I do not sell enough to get a decent wholesale price so end up paying what they can pick them up for online. If I have to cover the warranty, buy it etc I need to put a mark up on it which is all just hassle. There are lots of choices and it is a personal taste what people want to pay money for. They are all basically the same on the charging functionality, a sub £400 will function the same as the pricier ones purely on the charging aspect so up to them if they want all singing all dancing bells an whistles that the sales blurb promotes.

 

[Fatnbald]

Welcome to the forum!

Do any manufacturers offer training on installing them?

Podpoint do an online one, it is nonsense really. You need to do the college based course really to understand the pitfalls and process on the installs. One thing to remember is to go through the process of applying for permission to connect them to the supply for the ENA / DNO.

 

[R1R2Dave]

I have just completed the 'Wallbox' on line courses. Seems to me that you need to install extra equipment (a Power meter) in the consumer unit to make it all work. It seems a little complicated. I am doing the INDRA training webinar on Wednesday 28th Feb in the afternoon and I will be very interested to see how INDRA compare to 'Wall box'. Wallboxe's training videos do seem to be a bit complicated. My thoughts are that all of the 'technology / electronics needs to be incorporated within the EV charger so all you have to do is check 'main protective bonding' to gas and water, then ensure a type A RCD / RCBO is installed at the CU (if required) and then run your 'SWA' or 'EV ultra' and all of the equipment is in the EV charger. The point I am trying to make is with 'Wallbox' you need to install extra equipment upstream in or near to the CU. A bit complicated I think.