Anyone Work on live D.B

[Steve93]

Does anyone work live? As lately been working a fair bit ofarmoured and circuits into various boards at different jobs but everytime I do it i think to myself ‘f***them if they can’t live without power for 20 mins’ it’s more like factories and commercial places. What does everyone else do? Just crack on get it done? Or arrange a time to come back and power down?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Does anyone work live? As lately been working a fair bit ofarmoured and circuits into various boards at different jobs but everytime I do it i think to myself ‘f***them if they can’t live without power for 20 mins’ it’s more like factories and commercial places. What does everyone else do? Just crack on get it done? Or arrange a time to come back and power down?

001/2 ,you only live once, if you do It could be your
last mistake .not read the electricity work act!

 

[PEG]

Yes.
But not without an exceptional reason,not without no other way round it,not without proper tooling,training,provision for the safety of both yourself and others.

Also,and probably more important than the above,ONLY as a result of YOUR assessment of the task,never,ever,as a result of someone else's arrangements/promises/failures.

.....So actually,probably a NO

 

[The Ghost]

Well yes indeed. So there is a flow chart and the EAWR and the memorandum notes and questions and risk assesments. In certain circumstances yes the board is live but the part I work on is not. So I make sure all criteria are met regards risk assessment and reasonable etc. I work mostly on 3 phase Merlin Gerin boards and they are pretty "safe" with a lot of caveats.
Like don't hold on with two hands, don't lean in and push, pull back the black isolators on the bus bar, gloves even if apt. Although saying that in order to satisfy the flow chart in the memorandum and working live, out of hours is the first choice and will be done where I can't meet the criteria in the flow chart to justify working live.
But then working live is really when you are working on a circuit that is live. Not putting in a new circuit which is dead until you test and commission it so I am not quite sure what you mean when you say working live?
I certainly don't work on live circuits as such unless live testing etc.

 

[westward10]

Everyday.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Most of the time the board is live. Fortunately most of mine are isobar or KQ type where there is little or no risk of an issue. I draw the line at boards or chambers where the prongs or busbars are live and unprotected (having had a previous issue with a lively piece or swa armour that found its way across the busbars, eeekkk

 

[buzzlightyear]

did once, on a system .where I had to put in a circuit in a government buildings for a disable door opener .never again.

 

[stevethesparks]

Some of the older stuff was lethal.

 

[PEG]

Some of the preceeding comments,are proof,that it is an important,individual decision,taken after many considerations.

All HSE and regulations aside...generally,your first thoughts are the ones to trust.

If whilst you are inspecting (and you would be doing so) you look and think "mmm,that could be..." That's it! You already know the answer.

I have seen a lot of mishaps,where the above had occurred,and then somebody imagined a way these issues might not happen,and bang.

"We always do this", "The boss says we have to" and "Don't be a drama queen"...are common statements,from lucky heroes.

Be a leader,not a follower - even old sheep,still end up mutton

 

[Wonderwall]

With the correct knowledge , equiptment and ppe it sometimes is the only practical option.
If possible then get it turned off.

 

[MJPD29]

Yes, very rare in any shop of factory I've been permitted to turn a board off to connect a new circuit. Personally I feel if due care and diligence is taken it can be done safely

 

[Des 56]

Yes,on many occasions
Obviously where its easier to work with the power off,its a no brainer

Being brought up when it was almost natural to work live when required,I tend to find the "do a risk assessment" and"do so at your own peril" and similar comments a little uncomfortable

I am an electrician,its my occupation working with electrics,even if you are completely against my attitude,you should still be capable of working live safely and without too much fear

I find the warnings of doom and gloom at odds with the occupation that has been chosen

If working live is so alien to most people,how can a modern spark make himself safe doing so,especially if he "has" to work live and maybe never having experienced the situation when as a new breed in training

 

[PEG]

Yes, very rare in any shop of factory I've been permitted to turn a board off to connect a new circuit. Personally I feel if due care and diligence is taken it can be done safely

Respect due,but that is one hell of a lot of new circuits connected,with the reason for not isolating,being more important than your safety,on every occasion.

There are industries and situations,some of which i have worked in,where shutting down sections are "forbidden",yet when they go off as a result of any other influence,the world does not end.

In the majority of production environments,it is usually the cost of lost production,or re-setting lines,which over-rides isolation.

It may be the cost of out of hours wages,for sparks working,when isolating not during production hours.

The point i am making,is these above reasons are monetary,and if you agree that working live,carries increased risk,above working dead,then this risk is taken to benefit someone else,financially.

I have worked HV,where everybody accepts these risks beforehand,and the remuneration reflects this.

To undertake work LV,live,as described by the OP,as part and parcel of a normal routine,requires the kind of consideration,i hope my post,prompts.

 

[Adam W]

Depends what it is. It could be that I feel there is a different level of risk doing exactly the same job on two different boards due to what's already there. If I decide the level of risk is too high then it'll have to be done when everything can be powered down.

 

[cliffed]

It’s a difficult one,I’ve worked on Live DB,it’s knowing if it’s ok & possible,even taking & replacing cover can trip rcbo’s accidentally.
It’s when it all goes pear shaped the hassle begins,like BANG...

 

[marconi]

As well as the risks of electric shock, electric burns and electrocution be very mindful of the consequences of shorting lines to neutral or earth - sprayed molten metal, plasma arc flash, eye damage from high intensity arcing, intense heat all to the sound of big bang.

 

[MJPD29]

Your

Respect due,but that is one hell of a lot of new circuits connected,with the reason for not isolating,being more important than your safety,on every occasion.

There are industries and situations,some of which i have worked in,where shutting down sections are "forbidden",yet when they go off as a result of any other influence,the world does not end.

In the majority of production environments,it is usually the cost of lost production,or re-setting lines,which over-rides isolation.

It may be the cost of out of hours wages,for sparks working,when isolating not during production hours.

The point i am making,is these above reasons are monetary,and if you agree that working live,carries increased risk,above working dead,then this risk is taken to benefit someone else,financially.

I have worked HV,where everybody accepts these risks beforehand,and the remuneration reflects this.

To undertake work LV,live,as described by the OP,as part and parcel of a normal routine,requires the kind of consideration,i hope my post,prompts.

Your absolutely correct there it is to benefit someone else financially whether it is the company I am working for or the factory or shop I am working in, but there are exceptions as always if it was completely unsafe obviously I wouldn't do it but there are times when I would deem it acceptable and where I feel I am not putting myself at risk

 

[MJPD29]

Your

Respect due,but that is one hell of a lot of new circuits connected,with the reason for not isolating,being more important than your safety,on every occasion.

There are industries and situations,some of which i have worked in,where shutting down sections are "forbidden",yet when they go off as a result of any other influence,the world does not end.

In the majority of production environments,it is usually the cost of lost production,or re-setting lines,which over-rides isolation.

It may be the cost of out of hours wages,for sparks working,when isolating not during production hours.

The point i am making,is these above reasons are monetary,and if you agree that working live,carries increased risk,above working dead,then this risk is taken to benefit someone else,financially.

I have worked HV,where everybody accepts these risks beforehand,and the remuneration reflects this.

To undertake work LV,live,as described by the OP,as part and parcel of a normal routine,requires the kind of consideration,i hope my post,prompts.

Your absolutely correct there it is to benefit someone else financially whether it is the company I am working for or the factory or shop I am working in, but there are exceptions as always if it was completely unsafe obviously I wouldn't do it but there are times when I would deem it acceptable and where I feel I am not putting myself at risk

 

[Strima]

I work in telecoms and they don't like outages. They are suffering from past years of mismanagement and just throwing kit in to get the money rolling without any foresight.

This now leaves us unable to turn off any equipment as they don't know who it will effect. It could be 250,000 broadband users or the emergency services, know one knows.

I personally don't have a problem knocking off 250,000 domestic broadband users but I don't want to be dicking around with the emergency services, one dropped circuit could impact the ambulance service costing valuable minutes.

Fortunately most systems are -48VDC however this is still treated as a live AC system, with battery UPS we have large fault currents to contend with.

Only those with some form of live working training are allowed to complete these works with the correct PPE and only if they are willing to do so.

Even when I'm wearing the full face shield, double layer gauntlets, flash resistant overalls and stood on a rubber mat I'm still very wary.

Good planning and preparation can significantly reduce the amount of time you're actually live working.

Saying that I don't bat an eyelid when working in a ISOBAR board, I think they give you a false sense of security.

 

[littlespark]

If and when you do work live, what is worse?
An insulated screwdriver with the insulation cut off so it fits into a certain terminal, or an ordinary screwdriver with a bit of 10mm single insulation pushed over the shaft and taped in place to make it 'insulated'

Seen both instances happen.