Approved Contractor training

[spynage]

Hi.

I've been a DI for about 10 years. My Inspector suggested I apply for Approved Contractor status. I haven't done commercial work yet. What would be my next step. What's the first thing I should read?
I take it part P isn't applicable to commercial areas. Do I just go by BS 7671?

Thanks S

 

[catdog1121]

Do you have NVQ 3 including AM2? Or did you do a 5 week course?

 

[spynage]

Do you have NVQ 3 including AM2? Or did you do a 5 week course?

2 weeks. 10 years ago

 

[loz2754]

Part P only applies to dwellings.
The rest depends on your training and experience with the various wiring systems and methods.
And your knowledge of the regs of course.
Commercial work is very different in a practical sense.
If you want to expand your horizons, perhaps it might be possible for you to work with someone on a few commercial sites, before going for approved contractor status. (Sorry if I've misunderstood your level of training and experience.)

I started out on my own as a domestic installer, but had already gained a wealth of experience in commercial and industrial whilst working for various employers previous to that. I made the change to approved contractor so I could expand my field of work beyond domestic. But I still do mostly domestic, mainly because it's the kind of work I don't really have to think about too much!

Edit -
I only joined NICEIC because it became a requirement at about the same time I started up in business, the same year that Part P came in.

 

[nicebutdim]

Hi.

I've been a DI for about 10 years. My Inspector suggested I apply for Approved Contractor status. I haven't done commercial work yet. What would be my next step. What's the first thing I should read?
I take it part P isn't applicable to commercial areas. Do I just go by BS 7671?

Thanks S

NIC list requirements for 'Approved Contractors' and I'm pretty certain NVQ level 3 is in there somewhere.

EAL have an experienced worker route you could take to gain that (perhaps C&G have something similar) and, for all the cost involved, I'd be inclined to go through AM2 even if NIC don't require it (not sure if they do).

 

[mattg4321]

Why do you need to be approved contractor? I’ve done loads of (admittedly relatively small) commercial work and never been asked.

Seems like a con on the part of nic to me. Similar to paying them more to put their name on eicr’s. I don’t see what the benefit is to me.

I think I’m right in saying DI is half day yearly assessment and AC is full day yearly assessment?

 

[timhoward]

@mattg4321 thank you, saved me saying it!
In my view effort and money is better spent getting some commercial experience and making sure testing is up to scratch, especially 3 phase. Maybe doing 2391-52.

Is there a compelling reasons for slinging the scammers more cash for a different van sticker?

 

[7029 dave]

Why do you need to be approved contractor? I’ve done loads of (admittedly relatively small) commercial work and never been asked.

Seems like a con on the part of nic to me. Similar to paying them more to put their name on eicr’s. I don’t see what the benefit is to me.

I think I’m right in saying DI is half day yearly assessment and AC is full day yearly assessment?

Absolutely agree 100%, I know loads of old sparks that were all rounders that chose the cheapest option to address the part P scam so they went DI to carry on in the domestic field.
AC status IMO is only worth any weight if working for councils etc, because they insist on it.

 

[mattg4321]

Doing a job through a main contractor admittedly for a district council at the moment. They haven’t asked for anything. Only relatively small though £13k

 

[7029 dave]

Doing a job through a main contractor admittedly for a district council at the moment. They haven’t asked for anything. Only relatively small though £13k

I bet the main contractor is AC

 

[Dave OCD]

I've just been transferred from Elecsa due the the brand being 'retired' and am now a NIC 'DI' , wonderful after 36 years of post-apprenticeship experience.
But it's only to notify under Part P anyway, just a bit frustrating though.

 

[7029 dave]

I've just been transferred from Elecsa due the the brand being 'retired' and am now a NIC 'DI' , wonderful after 36 years of post-apprenticeship experience.
But it's only to notify under Part P anyway, just a bit frustrating though.

That is one big PI$$ TAKE Dave, the trade is messed up big time, some member on here is a DI he done 2weeks training. (no disrespect to him)

 

[Dave OCD]

Thanks mate, yes I can't help feeling that way. And having had the same great Assessor for the last 6 years who knows me and my standards well I'm now forced to have a new one [in March] who I've been told by a few other people is a proper tw@t !
We shall see.....

 

[spynage]

Why do you need to be approved contractor? I’ve done loads of (admittedly relatively small) commercial work and never been asked.

Seems like a con on the part of nic to me. Similar to paying them more to put their name on eicr’s. I don’t see what the benefit is to me.

I think I’m right in saying DI is half day yearly assessment and AC is full day yearly assessment?

Thanks for your replies.
Just to shed some light on my 'training'. I did X 2 1 week courses. I think the first was basic installation of ring circuits, terminating SWA etc. The second week was level 3 inspection and testing. Once I secured this I immediately joined the NICEIC and was installing my first consumer unit within weeks!
To be fair looking back, I got it. My work wasn't awful. All that's really changed is my work has become neater and faster and of course my knowledge has grown along with my confidence. That's been the biggest change.
I've been asked to do tidy up this artist community area. Really neglected electrics. Ancient fuse boards etc. I could just approach it like a domestic installation I suppose? Just wondering if there is some key document I should be reading? It's not like a factory or anything with fixed equipment.

Cheers

 

[mattg4321]

I bet the main contractor is AC

Nope he’s a builder. I’m the only electrician

 

[mattg4321]

I've just been transferred from Elecsa due the the brand being 'retired' and am now a NIC 'DI' , wonderful after 36 years of post-apprenticeship experience.
But it's only to notify under Part P anyway, just a bit frustrating though.

Ive had the same treatment. Elecsa is only part p notify anyway, they had no such equivalent to approved contractor as far as I can tell.

I have all the qualifications and experience necessary for approved contractor status but I don’t want to do a full day assessment each year rather than half day and pay more for the privilege. There is no benefit to me.

One thing that has irritated me slightly is I just applied to ozev for approval to fit EV charge points and they refused me entry to the workplace scheme as I’m DI rather than AC. Does that mean all elecsa members were also treated as such? Possibly stroma and napit too?? Maybe our resident expert @Gavin John Hyde will know more.

 

[7029 dave]

Nope he’s a builder. I’m the only electrician

Interesting, I worked for quite a few firms in London admittedly a long time ago, they all done work for the various councils, being NIC approved was a must.

 

[catdog1121]

My understanding is from September last year both NAPIT and NICEIC are now insisting on NVQ 3 including AM2 or equivalent as a minimum CPS entry. Although if you are already a member then this will not be required, this will sort of kill off the domestic installer route, I think the consensus was that the short courses are not sufficient training and encourages too many people to shortcut route into electrical industry..

Maybe the CPS are trying to gently push those that are domestic installers to get the required qualifications etc to be an AC, I always wondered if at some point in the future they might say something like those without an NVQ 3 and AM2 have a few years to prove they are starting the qualification and then 4yrs to complete the qualification or something along those lines.. When I was choosing my route into the electrical trade although there was a massive difference between the 2+yrs doing NVQ 3 and AM2 against the 2 week short courses I chose the longer route to cover myself.

I believe the Domestic installer was more for other trades, so it allows bathroom fitters to carry out electrical work or add a circuit etc, but it because a popular route to be an electrician as especially in the domestic world nobody knows the difference between an Approved contractor and Domestic installer anyway.

 

[Dave OCD]

Ive had the same treatment. Elecsa is only part p notify anyway, they had no such equivalent to approved contractor as far as I can tell.

I have all the qualifications and experience necessary for approved contractor status but I don’t want to do a full day assessment each year rather than half day and pay more for the privilege. There is no benefit to me.

One thing that has irritated me slightly is I just applied to ozev for approval to fit EV charge points and they refused me entry to the workplace scheme as I’m DI rather than AC. Does that mean all elecsa members were also treated as such? Possibly stroma and napit too?? Maybe our resident expert @Gavin John Hyde will know more.

When I started up as self employed I chose Elecsa as my 'CPS' because it seemed that most of the shoddy work [apart from DIY] that I came across generally had an NIC sticker on the board - and I didn't want to be associated with that, probably sounds a bit controversial and I'm sure many will disagree, but it's what my experience was.

 

[Dave OCD]

Interesting, I worked for quite a few firms in London admittedly a long time ago, they all done work for the various councils, being NIC approved was a must.

Back then Dave all NIC registered people would be Approved Contractors, no such thing as a 'DI' then, well apart from Detective Inspector.

 

[mattg4321]

When I started up as self employed I chose Elecsa as my 'CPS' because it seemed that most of the shoddy work [apart from DIY] that I came across generally had an NIC sticker on the board - and I didn't want to be associated with that, probably sounds a bit controversial and I'm sure many will disagree, but it's what my experience was.

We started off notifying under part p through Eca who then bought out elecsa and moved everybody across and now been moved to niceic di. Bit annoyed really as we always used to be full scope under Eca. I wasn’t running the business though until about 5 years ago, so details are a bit vague to me.

I think I’m going to have a bit of a whinge to nic and see what happens. I meet all the criteria for AC, if they will do half day assessments and no/minimal extra fee for AC I’ll switch over. I only do about 5-10% commercial work but it annoyed me getting refused by OZEV for the workplace scheme.

 

[7029 dave]

Back then Dave all NIC registered people would be Approved Contractors, no such thing as a 'DI' then, well apart from Detective Inspector.

Yes the good old days when the NIC meant something

 

[Dave OCD]

It's all a right mess now I think.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Never heard of people getting knocked back for wcs approval based on di status. I only have DI approval and am registered.with ozev for evhs.and wcs.grants. admittedly have been for a few years now and a couple hundred installs later.....
The various schemes are tightening.up. i have an NVQ but wrong sort so have signed.up for the 2346 experienced worker route and will then do the am2e to tick all boxes going forward. My NVQ is electrical mechanical engineering
Funny thing is in August i could switch to NICEIC AC but September onwards I cant.

 

[UNG]

My understanding is from September last year both NAPIT and NICEIC are now insisting on NVQ 3 including AM2 or equivalent as a minimum CPS entry. Although if you are already a member then this will not be required, this will sort of kill off the domestic installer route, I think the consensus was that the short courses are not sufficient training and encourages too many people to shortcut route into electrical industry..

Maybe the CPS are trying to gently push those that are domestic installers to get the required qualifications etc to be an AC, I always wondered if at some point in the future they might say something like those without an NVQ 3 and AM2 have a few years to prove they are starting the qualification and then 4yrs to complete the qualification or something along those lines.. When I was choosing my route into the electrical trade although there was a massive difference between the 2+yrs doing NVQ 3 and AM2 against the 2 week short courses I chose the longer route to cover myself.

I seem to recall the changes made to the requirements to join a scheme also included a requirement for existing members below the required entry standard post Sept 21 had to have / show a training schedule to get them up to the minimum entry level although I don't think a cut off date was or has been set yet to remove those who don't reach the post Sept 21 entry requirements

I believe the Domestic installer was more for other trades, so it allows bathroom fitters to carry out electrical work or add a circuit etc, but it because a popular route to be an electrician as especially in the domestic world nobody knows the difference between an Approved contractor and Domestic installer anyway.

The NIC had the defined scope membership for other trades doing minor electrical work but that seemed to disappear when Part P appeared on the scene and the DI bandwagon rolled into town