Backstabbing: electrician says all outlets in home should be replaced?

[westward10]

It is interesting as a double receptacle if connected to the same circuit (they can be split by removing the tab between the screw terminals) you can connect four conductors into separate terminals.

 

[Mark Wright]

I'm sure William Shakespeare would have approved init.

 

[Strima]

So when will we see those sort of terminations becoming common in the UK?

It would certainly speed up installation time.

 

[Mark Wright]

Seems a stupid question but are the screws on the side actually in direct contact with conductor - e.g do they become live!?

 

[westward10]

Yes it is one piece of metal. This link shows you the construction and the tab between the terminals which you break off to create separate receptacles.

What does it mean if an electrical outlet is 'backstabbed'? - Quora

www.quora.com

 

[DPG]

As above, sounds like a fairly high power (and obviously inductive) vacuum cleaner is being repeatedly plugged/unplugged while switched on.

 

[Mark Wright]

I suppose the screws on the side must be live for the other method of termination - just Exposed conductive part - Totally Live! if the socket became loose and someone tried to put it back touching these big screws with no barriers - that's it - seems a bit hazardous design.

 

[DPG]

I suppose the screws on the side must be live for the other method of termination - just Exposed conductive part - Totally Live! if the socket became loose and someone tried to put it back touching these big screws with no barriers - that's it - seems a bit hazardous design.

Some of the US stuff seems a bit behind our stuff to be honest. No offence intended to Megawatt.

 

[Mark Wright]

Sorry to go on, just hard for me to get my head round just totally exposed conductive part on the side with no Barrier :O and not like a metal enclosure a totally live! screw on the side.
Rant over I think .......

 

[davesparks]

Sorry to go on, just hard for me to get my head round just totally exposed conductive part on the side with no Barrier :O and not like a metal enclosure a totally live! screw on the side.
Rant over I think .......

It's not that hard to get your head around, it's similar to how you might have expected things to be in this country 60 years ago.

 

[Mark Wright]

It's not that hard to get your head around, it's similar to how you might have expected things to be in this country 60 years ago.

Was there anything like this in the UK historically?

I've never found any kind of guide to older UK wiring before A.J.Coker before Brian Scaddam took over so if anyone has any references point me in the direction - an older Reader Digest book on Wiring - pretty good actually but not that much different.

 

[James]

Like this?

 

[littlespark]

Like this?

Last time I saw one of those, it was powering the waltzer at the local travelling funfair

 

[Mark Wright]

Something from an electric chair?

 

[James]

Last time I saw one of those, it was powering the waltzer at the local travelling funfair

Yes not unusual for the traction engine generators to have those switches uncovered and in free to access space. 200 to 400v D.C. normally.

 

[Megawatt]

Hello everyone!

We bought a new construction home in 2018. About a week ago, our cleaning service had an incident where our outlet sparked when they tried to use their vacuum cleaner. The maids said that it happened when they plugged the vacuum cleaner into two different outlets and the sparks left scarring on the outlets. I assumed it was a faulty vacuum and all that needed to be done was replace the damaged outlets with new ones.

We found a local electrical repair company that has a very high BBB rating. They said the sparking happened because the outlets were wired by "backstabbing" the wires through the holes in the back of the outlet, rather than being secured by the screws on the sides of the outlet. The electrician also found a third outlet that was scarred from sparking damage. At this point we do not know whether the maids also plugged the vacuum into that socket and didn't tell us, or if it was damaged some other way. We have reached out to the cleaning service to try to find out.

The electrician also told us that all three sockets are on different circuits. One is a GFCI circuit and the other two are standard. Notably, only one of the three circuit breakers tripped when this happened. On the GFCI socket, neither the circuit breaker nor the GFCI tripped.

The electrician inspected some of the other outlets and switches in our home and told us they were all backstabbed. He said at a minimum we should replace every outlet on the three affected circuits (not just the three damaged ones), and run a high voltage test on the three affected circuits to determine whether any of the wires on the circuits were damaged from the incident, and of course replace the circuit breakers for the circuits that didn't trip. That would cost $4,000 USD.

However, the electrician strongly recommended going further to also have them replace all of the outlets and switches in our entire house so that they can eliminate the "backstabbing" and wire the outlets correctly. He also wanted to "pigtail" all of the devices. This would cost $9,000.

The three damaged outlets have already been replaced. The builder was nice enough to do this for free even though we were three months outside of our electrical warranty. But naturally the builder blamed the problem on the vacuum cleaner and not the wiring.

This leads me to my questions:

1. How concerned should we be that only one of the three circuit breakers tripped? This seems to me to be the strongest evidence that there could be a problem with the wiring, as opposed to the vacuum cleaner.

2. We may never know whether a malfunction in the vacuum cleaner caused the sparking, or if it was bad wiring, but the question still remains, is "backstabbing" such a bad practice that it warrants replacing all of the outlets and light switches in our entire house?

2(a). This seems like something that would be a fairly easy do it yourself job, although it would be very time consuming. (Just replacing the outlets, I would not trust myself to do the pigtailing)

Thanks!

Karonis there is not problem with back stabbing the receptacles as long as the screws are torqued down which helps the wire stay tight. Your electrician is ridiculous on his pricing, I just about fell out of my chair when I seem the price he was giving you. I could change every receptacle in your whole house under $ 500.00. That is outrageous and do not ever call him back because he is trying to rip you off bad. If your GFCI Receptacles didn’t trip they need to be replaced and he is full of crap about working in your panel. Do not and I repeat do not never call him again. He is a bad apple for the electrical industry and very shameful. What an idiot. No way is all your wiring is that bad. Hire a honest electrician because he is just trying to scare you. I still can’t get over $ 9000.00 and for $ 4000.00. Hell I could check all your wiring and Da— near wire your whole house for that kind of money
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Some of the US stuff seems a bit behind our stuff to be honest. No offence intended to Megawatt.

No offense taking @DPG the screws have to be tight for the Connection to be tight and his so called electrician is an idiot

 

[littlespark]

Well done, @Megawatt . We were all waiting for you to give a stateside opinion on this.

 

[Megawatt]

Hello everyone!

We bought a new construction home in 2018. About a week ago, our cleaning service had an incident where our outlet sparked when they tried to use their vacuum cleaner. The maids said that it happened when they plugged the vacuum cleaner into two different outlets and the sparks left scarring on the outlets. I assumed it was a faulty vacuum and all that needed to be done was replace the damaged outlets with new ones.

We found a local electrical repair company that has a very high BBB rating. They said the sparking happened because the outlets were wired by "backstabbing" the wires through the holes in the back of the outlet, rather than being secured by the screws on the sides of the outlet. The electrician also found a third outlet that was scarred from sparking damage. At this point we do not know whether the maids also plugged the vacuum into that socket and didn't tell us, or if it was damaged some other way. We have reached out to the cleaning service to try to find out.

The electrician also told us that all three sockets are on different circuits. One is a GFCI circuit and the other two are standard. Notably, only one of the three circuit breakers tripped when this happened. On the GFCI socket, neither the circuit breaker nor the GFCI tripped.

The electrician inspected some of the other outlets and switches in our home and told us they were all backstabbed. He said at a minimum we should replace every outlet on the three affected circuits (not just the three damaged ones), and run a high voltage test on the three affected circuits to determine whether any of the wires on the circuits were damaged from the incident, and of course replace the circuit breakers for the circuits that didn't trip. That would cost $4,000 USD.

However, the electrician strongly recommended going further to also have them replace all of the outlets and switches in our entire house so that they can eliminate the "backstabbing" and wire the outlets correctly. He also wanted to "pigtail" all of the devices. This would cost $9,000.

The three damaged outlets have already been replaced. The builder was nice enough to do this for free even though we were three months outside of our electrical warranty. But naturally the builder blamed the problem on the vacuum cleaner and not the wiring.

This leads me to my questions:

1. How concerned should we be that only one of the three circuit breakers tripped? This seems to me to be the strongest evidence that there could be a problem with the wiring, as opposed to the vacuum cleaner.

2. We may never know whether a malfunction in the vacuum cleaner caused the sparking, or if it was bad wiring, but the question still remains, is "backstabbing" such a bad practice that it warrants replacing all of the outlets and light switches in our entire house?

2(a). This seems like something that would be a fairly easy do it yourself job, although it would be very time consuming. (Just replacing the outlets, I would not trust myself to do the pigtailing)

Thanks!

Kornis let that idiot so called electrician read my reply and see what he has to say

 

[norcal]

Sounds like the OP called a flat rate electrician, every job has a price & they will bend you over without the benefit of Vaseline.

 

[DillWeed]

Yeah I'm not an electrician nor do I play one on TV, but I was wondering if this was probably an issue of pulling or inserting plug while vacuum was on.