Best/ most useful charge points on the market

[littlespark]

My FIL announces he's just bought a brand new hybrid Volvo, getting it in April.... Rather than speaking to me first, he's told the salesman his son in law, (ie me) will install a charge point for it.

Can anyone recommend the best charge point available, and more importantly, an easy to use one.

Another question, He may decide in the future to upgrade to full electric, and/or buy a second car... so do they come with 2 outlets.... and then can they be programmed to charge one car on priority over the other, rather than both at the same time.... ?

Does supplier need notified now? Its a biggish house, but gas CH...no electric shower. no current high loads apart from oven.

CT clamps to monitor tails, does having PV affect that during the day? PV comes off Henley blocks into a garage board, not off a breaker in the main DB

 

[SparkySy]

I would say myenergi zappi but I'm really bias as they are my go to charger. Not the cheapest but I have only ever had 1 go faulty and myenergi sent me the replacement parts and paid me for my time to fix it! Plenty of room inside nice to look at. Their technical support is absolutely spot on too!
Failing that Project EV, slightly cheaper, not so pleasing to the eye but a reasonable unit all in all.
Or sync EV if you want something really small, although I wasn't overly happy with the space for cables inside these it was incredibly tight with a 6mm cable.

The zappi and project EV can be used with solar and will require ct clamps but it will help with the charging costs! Not sure on the sync but most now have the option.
Sy

 

[MJPD29]

Smallest I've fitted is 100kw but for domestic ones I've seen a lot of people fitting zappi and yet to hear complaints. Seen a lot of chargepoint ones also but about 90% have caused continuous issues.

 

[SparkySy]

@MJPD29 Cor blimy 100kw, are they the direct DC points and sounds interesting!
I fit mainly the 22kw zappi units but the last have been doing single phase 7kw. Nothing that exciting!
Sy

 

[MJPD29]

@SparkySy They are indeed, mainly 100, 150 and a couple of 200kw, yet to see a vehicle that isn't a bus that can make use of them! And of course fitted in an area where a bus couldn't physically get in.

 

[littlespark]

It’s for a Volvo car, not a bus…. So I don’t think there’s a need for 100kW

I’ll look at the zappi’s if they have a good reputation.

 

[MJPD29]

It’s for a Volvo car, not a bus…. So I don’t think there’s a need for 100kW

I’ll look at the zappi’s if they have a good reputation.

Some volvos are nearly a bus! Plenty are driven like them!

 

[littlespark]

Having a look at MyEnergi Zappi just now... So for a 32A, single phase 7kW... probably tethered, so they don't lose the lead.....

CEF are coming in £80 cheaper than from Myenergi direct... That doesnt seem right??

Project EV are available on Screwfix though, with a much quicker delivery time.... (not getting the car 'til April, so not of huge importance)

Do either of these need an earth rod nowadays? Concrete driveway, don't fancy digging a hole where i know there's water and drains... and possibly mains supply cable

 

[MJPD29]

Check zappi data sheet but fairly sure it doesn't require a rod. Not sure about others.

 

[Risteard]

Check zappi data sheet but fairly sure it doesn't require a rod. Not sure about others.

PEN fault detection and disconnection is incorporated into the Zappi. Same with Project EV (at least if it has PME in the model number).

Don't forget manufacturer's declaration of conformity.

 

[loz2754]

If having more than one charge point is part of the plan, the Easee Robot system can run multiple charge points on one circuit, with automatic load balancing between them.

 

[i=p/u]

Fitting abb dc chargers and some smaller abl or ohm chargers

 

[littlespark]

I got a phone call from him last night… he’s drove up to his lodge in aviemore….

“If we get a double charger for the house… can you put another one up here?”


So the next question is, do any of these work without full internet access?
I can put in a hub without the internet access so that we can still link the charge point with a phone?

The lodge has its own electric supply, at least a 60A fuse…. Not off the sites installation.

 

[MJPD29]

I got a phone call from him last night… he’s drove up to his lodge in aviemore….

“If we get a double charger for the house… can you put another one up here?”


So the next question is, do any of these work without full internet access?
I can put in a hub without the internet access so that we can still link the charge point with a phone?

The lodge has its own electric supply, at least a 60A fuse…. Not off the sites installation.

I believe zappi doesn't actually require Internet access

 

[SparkySy]

Yes the zappi con work without internet, it does use it for updates to software though.
If you only have a 60a supply then I would use a harvi to control the two points so they don't end up using all the supply capacity. Although you can set a maximum current limit in the charger to stop them taking the cut out fuse out if both get used together!

 

[littlespark]

Yes the zappi con work without internet, it does use it for updates to software though.
If you only have a 60a supply then I would use a harvi to control the two points so they don't end up using all the supply capacity. Although you can set a maximum current limit in the charger to stop them taking the cut out fuse out if both get used together!

This is what i was wondering....

CT clamps will keep them from pulling too much, but with a dual unit... (2 cars plugged in at once into the same unit) Can one be set as priority, and the second one kick in when the first is at 90% or whatever.... or say, charge car 1 for 6 hours, then car 2 for 2 hours. ???

Might not be so easy with 2 x individual units

 

[SparkySy]

I've not seen a twin zappi 7kw version, not sure if such a thing exists yet! But yes CT clamps will do that, you probably can master one of the points, not sure exactly how as there are so many options within the menus.
@Gavin John Hyde would be a good shout he is into his EV and has probably had experience with a lot more manufacturers than I have.

 

[loz2754]

Can one be set as priority, and the second one kick in when the first is at 90% or whatever.... or say, charge car 1 for 6 hours, then car 2 for 2 hours. ???

The only one I'm aware of that does this currently is the Easee Robot.

 

[Risteard]

The only one I'm aware of that does this currently is the Easee Robot.

There is currently an issue between Easee and the Swedish Electrical Safety Authority, with the potential for a sales ban in Sweden.

 

[littlespark]

There is currently an issue between Easee and the Swedish Electrical Safety Authority, with the potential for a sales ban in Sweden.

A serious issue?

Something that could affect their sales in this country?

 

[nicebutdim]

A serious issue?

Something that could affect their sales in this country?

Easee's take on the matter:

Easee - Q&A from Easee regarding Elsäkerhetsverket in Sweden

We have tried to answer the most asked questions about our case with Elsäkerhetsverket in Sweden.

easee.com

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I believe zappi doesn't actually require Internet access

Technically no, but actually illegal to fit a non smart enabled charger now! all chargers have to be smart enabled and for the zappi that involves the app as whilst you can do the randomised start over ride on the screen you would want it connected to cloud still

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I've not seen a twin zappi 7kw version, not sure if such a thing exists yet! But yes CT clamps will do that, you probably can master one of the points, not sure exactly how as there are so many options within the menus.
@Gavin John Hyde would be a good shout he is into his EV and has probably had experience with a lot more manufacturers than I have.

Bit late to the party on this as I have been flat out with pv and batteyr installs last month or so.
You wont get a double socket zappi but to be honest a single zappi will suffice, all new cars in uk.eu have a type 32 and that is not going to change anytime over the next few decades.
You can set 2 zappis to be in a group and load balance via group limit. with one as master second charger as slave. its quite technical trying to explain here but its in the myenergi manuals and wiki. a quick call to the tech line will get have them set up in no time. I have recently fitted 2 zappis on a 40A supply. 1 can have 32 but if both charging then they split the available load.
Having done it a lot its hard to explain as the fingers sort of work in auto pilot mode when going through menus.
The important bit is to have the ct clamps hardwired and not using harvi devices as the group setting and G100 and dno bits would then not be compliant.
within the linked devices section you can set min and max power for each linked device

 

[SparkySy]

Thanks for that @Gavin John Hyde, good to hear you are still busy!
I've not fitted two together yet and it's been a while since I fitted a zappi.
I know there are several pages of settings and that they are very flexible chargers.
When it comes to it you are the EV guru as far as I'm concerned!
Sy

 

[littlespark]

The home charger isn’t going to be a problem. They have internet access there… but the aviemore lodge doesn’t.

Does some of these come with a mobile sim? Then there’s mobile coverage to think of.


I can see he’s planning for the future, when really neither my FIL or MIL should be driving with their various health issues… we’ll all have EV in the coming years.. and if two family households are using the lodge, we’ll both need to charge.



I guess I’ll be wanting same at my own house sometime…. When I get an electric van, and an electric car capable of towing a caravan.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

The home charger isn’t going to be a problem. They have internet access there… but the aviemore lodge doesn’t.

Does some of these come with a mobile sim? Then there’s mobile coverage to think of.


I can see he’s planning for the future, when really neither my FIL or MIL should be driving with their various health issues… we’ll all have EV in the coming years.. and if two family households are using the lodge, we’ll both need to charge.



I guess I’ll be wanting same at my own house sometime…. When I get an electric van, and an electric car capable of towing a caravan.

You could get in use mobile broadband / dongles to power the wifi connection... it will work without wifi but is not strictly speaking compliant if you get my drift

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

The home charger isn’t going to be a problem. They have internet access there… but the aviemore lodge doesn’t.

Does some of these come with a mobile sim? Then there’s mobile coverage to think of.


I can see he’s planning for the future, when really neither my FIL or MIL should be driving with their various health issues… we’ll all have EV in the coming years.. and if two family households are using the lodge, we’ll both need to charge.



I guess I’ll be wanting same at my own house sometime…. When I get an electric van, and an electric car capable of towing a caravan.

Have you considered the new ohme socket based charger for the lodge? it has built in 4g/4g sim for comms and is actually quite a nice unit. if fitting the ct clamp for load management you will need to hardwire it and run cat5e/ev ultra but worth considering

 

[littlespark]

This is what I was thinking.

Does the smart part of the charge point really need internet access?
Ok… if you’re at the same place, and on the same Wi-Fi network.. you can monitor and change settings with your phone…. But if you’re away from home without the car… you don’t need to be constantly reminded how it’s doing.
Wait until you get back.

I suppose it will be so it can get software updates.

Conspiracy theory ahead
Or is it so the charge point manufacturer can hack your Wi-Fi and listen in on your conversations?


I’ll give him prices for single or duel socket, and let him decide to put a duel in now, or a single, and add another single in a couple of years.

Project EV being the only one that the wholesaler tells me does a duel outlet at £1350 ex vat

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

This is what I was thinking.

Does the smart part of the charge point really need internet access?
Ok… if you’re at the same place, and on the same Wi-Fi network.. you can monitor and change settings with your phone…. But if you’re away from home without the car… you don’t need to be constantly reminded how it’s doing.
Wait until you get back.

I suppose it will be so it can get software updates.

Conspiracy theory ahead
Or is it so the charge point manufacturer can hack your Wi-Fi and listen in on your conversations?


I’ll give him prices for single or duel socket, and let him decide to put a duel in now, or a single, and add another single in a couple of years.

Project EV being the only one that the wholesaler tells me does a duel outlet at £1350 ex vat

you could look at the rolec dual outlet units such as securicharge, the domestic units are not very good in my view but the commercial units are good

 

[littlespark]

Just seen the rolec zura… which look nicer than the wall pod, and the boxy securicharge commercial unit
Also comes with duel outlets.


Do you use the special EV cables for supplies?
The home install can be routed through the garage, so t&e in minitrunking… and the lodge; Possibly swa and flexi conduit for the cat5.
The cost for a few metres of the combined power and data cable is huge compared with same in swa and separate data.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Just seen the rolec zura… which look nicer than the wall pod, and the boxy securicharge commercial unit
Also comes with duel outlets.


Do you use the special EV cables for supplies?
The home install can be routed through the garage, so t&e in minitrunking… and the lodge; Possibly swa and flexi conduit for the cat5.
The cost for a few metres of the combined power and data cable is huge compared with same in swa and separate data.

Can buy toughened cat5e / direct burial cat5e to run in parallel with the power, its ~£30 for 100m on amazon etc...
then use whatever power cable you fancy

 

[nicebutdim]

More on the Easee/Sweden story...

 

[littlespark]

I spoke to FIL today about what was required and the limit of choice for 2 outlet units, so he's now said, just one outlet, but make it simple to use..... maybe a keypad and a PIN number to use it....

I don't think any have keypads, just RF card/keyfobs, which might also work.

Can the same keyfobs be used for more than one charge point, as he wants one at the house, and one at the lodge in Aviemore... So the aviemore one can be used by any of the family once we get electric cars?

No internet up at the lodge, so i think i read one comes with a free 4G sim card. Will need to check coverage, its a pretty bad blind spot at the best of times. He tried having a Smart meter fitted, but it didnt work.

 

[littlespark]

ive been reading up on this website, Best EV Chargers 2023 | Charger Rankings Table – Top Charger - https://topcharger.co.uk/charger-power-rankings/

and come to the conclusion that the Hypervolt Home 2.0 would do the job.

At home, it can connect to the wifi, and choose to use the solar PV....
For the lodge, where there is no internet, i can add a 4G dongle.... (depending on signal coverage)

It doesnt have the PIN number lock or rf security that i can see, but i might be wrong there.


edit:

try searching for "hypervolt"... im getting a thousand adverts for a massage gun

 

[littlespark]

Conversation on another thread about notifying the DNO after install... (its not a big one where its notify BEFORE install) and there was some disagreement about whether to bother notifying at all.

I would say, yes... we have to. To allow the dno to plan future infrastructure improvement works against projected demand... But i also brought up the argument that Screwfix sell the Project EV to joe bloggs to fit themselves DIY.... would they know to inform DNO? Is it in the installation manual?

One member even said they didn't, and knew other electricians that didn't... so is not informing the dno going to come bite us on the butt in a couple of years? (the charge point manufacturer must know where their units are fitted for warranty registration, so that can be checked against the dno list)

 

[brianmoooore]

Can someone explain to me what all this 'smart' stuff is about in relation to EV charge points. I can understand that those that are into electric vehicles might be into all sorts of smart toys but I gather that it is now compulsory for any new point installed. What's the advantage of the point being 'smart'?
I don't have an electric vehicle myself, but I do have a 32A 'dumb' Rolec charge point, which has an i3 plugged into it at the moment. It's not charging yet, but at midnight it will, controlled by an app on the owner's phone. The same will happen when a Tesla 3 comes here next month.
The cars are 'smart' and communicate with their owners' phones, so why does the charge point need to be smart as well?