Book times for chopping boxes in walls

[stimpy]

Buy the time he has been on here and wasted half his Electrical Trainee life away thinking about it, he could have knocked a load of them out and be getting on with it nicely, or did they show him how to do that?

I'm not sure I've misunderstood but it looks like this comment may be aimed at me?

If so have you read this entire post or just being an arrogant ignorant ****? If not I'm still unsure you understand the purpose of forums.

 

[uksparks]

I was trying to extract the urine, come on, you are asking about book times on fixing sodding back boxes. How longs a bit of string...

 

[stimpy]

I was trying to extract the urine, come on, you are asking about book times on fixing sodding back boxes. How longs a bit of string...

Furry muff, just didn't come across that way.

And yes, I can understand the subject matter can be a little ambiguous/ tricky/ tedious.

But as per posts there are genuine book times hence my genuine question - would have posted in the business section but required a quickish comparative answer. If folk could only answer the actual asked question or not at all on forums that would be fab, but then it could be a little sterile... But to rip folks for asking a genuine question and not fully read or understand the original post... well thats just ignorant in my book.

Oh, and just for future reference I've been a self employed electrician for just over 20 years and its seen me pretty good. And that doesn't make me the best electrician - but means I must be doing something right.....

 

[Knobhead]

So when you’ve tied the job to the minute are you going to dock the guys pay because the job took a bit longer than your book says. If you don’t dock their pay there’s no point tallying everything beforehand.

It will take a damn site longer when everyone’s walked of the job.

You’re a fool if you think you can price a project to the N[SUP]th[/SUP] degree. What are you going to do if you overrun on costs because you’ve cut your margins?

 

[shanky887614]

schedules of work are just to keep the accountants happy etc, unless there continuously update its rare they actually happen when they say they will.

for example the guys are coming out to balance the fans on friday.

the cable feeding our panel isnt going in till thuraday, they have no chance

 

[stimpy]

So when you’ve tied the job to the minute are you going to dock the guys pay because the job took a bit longer than your book says. If you don’t dock their pay there’s no point tallying everything beforehand.

It will take a damn site longer when everyone’s walked of the job.

You’re a fool if you think you can price a project to the N[SUP]th[/SUP] degree. What are you going to do if you overrun on costs because you’ve cut your margins?

Crikey... You lot are hard work - you need to take your fingers out your ears! And what is all this dribble Tony!?? I'd never cut blokes wages, if I get my price wrong its my fault only!? Hence I need to get it right...

And I've never stated I was pricing to the nth degree - where does this come from?

 

[stimpy]

For the first time in 20 years making a successfull living as a self employed sparky I decided to try book pricing as this particular project is very large to me, I'm up against the big boys and I was a bit un confident in my usual methods so thought I'd try it. Hence the very specific original post!???

so why all the ignorant comments?

"It'll take as long as it takes" or " why do you even care?" Won't be received very well on my tender....

And what with book pricing being new to me I thought what with this being a forum and all I'd ask...

stupidly..... Expecting an adult answer......

 

[stimpy]

schedules of work are just to keep the accountants happy etc, unless there continuously update its rare they actually happen when they say they will.

for example the guys are coming out to balance the fans on friday.

the cable feeding our panel isnt going in till thuraday, they have no chance

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I mean working out the original base man hrs to complete the project then compare to the build schedule and set your base no. Of men to meet the build requirements... A schedule of works to me but may be the wrong terminology...

 

[shanky887614]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I mean working out the original base man hrs to complete the project then compare to the build schedule and set your base no. Of men to meet the build requirements... A schedule of works to me but may be the wrong terminology...

ive just re read op.

would be worth booking at least 1.5times how long it would take you.

some subbies wont go as quick as you yourself would

 

[polo1]

I have to say guys, some of you are really takin the urine. You're trying to look at this from the perspective of what you do/ how you do it on the various jobs you work on. This query has nowt to do with that directly. This is the sort of stuff which allows a job to turn a profit or deliver a loss, and too many of the latter and it's no jobs for the boys.
A perfectly sensible question and some right leery answers.

 

[stimpy]

ive just re read op.

would be worth booking at least 1.5times how long it would take you.

some subbies wont go as quick as you yourself would

Yes, my biggest concern/ interest was in 'walking time and scratching your arse time' with subbies. It seems that with book methods folk are generally adding 15/20% to labour for this and break time on total labour. Then plus profit.

 

[stimpy]

I have to say guys, some of you are really takin the urine. You're trying to look at this from the perspective of what you do/ how you do it on the various jobs you work on. This query has nowt to do with that directly. This is the sort of stuff which allows a job to turn a profit or deliver a loss, and too many of the latter and it's no jobs for the boys.
A perfectly sensible question and some right leery answers.

Atlast!! Thank you for reading this post and not jumping to a completely irrelevant answer!!

This project is between £350/£400k. The largest I've done is £60k but with open book + %. So I have to get it at least nearly right!! Or I'm proper fooked....

it was a simple question.

 

[Richard Burns]

I hate to say this and I am not trying to be difficult,or anything like that, but you have a book with prices, this does not include chopping out boxes, therefore there is no book price for chopping out boxes.
What you would have to do is apply an average from similar jobs (or a maximum form similar jobs!) so if cutting a floor to ceiling chase is priced then charge the same for chopping out a box, or assume it takes half the time and charge that way. This may mean that you do not win the project, which can be very disheartening after all the work, but at least you may then try a lower rate for boxes. Experience counts for all unfortunately and you will just have to try.
Good luck.

 

[stimpy]

I hate to say this and I am not trying to be difficult,or anything like that, but you have a book with prices, this does not include chopping out boxes, therefore there is no book price for chopping out boxes.
What you would have to do is apply an average from similar jobs (or a maximum form similar jobs!) so if cutting a floor to ceiling chase is priced then charge the same for chopping out a box, or assume it takes half the time and charge that way. This may mean that you do not win the project, which can be very disheartening after all the work, but at least you may then try a lower rate for boxes. Experience counts for all unfortunately and you will just have to try.
Good luck.

Haha...

one of them does but they're unbelievable and its dated. There are other " programs" and references that one can purchase but that's not for me at this stage. Tbh it was just a quick question and the box chopping which we probably won't be doing anyway is such a minute part - I honestly never really expected this sort of bull**** over such a small subject. I'd just thought someone may know or some estimators from bigger firms may chime in... Quick q, quick answer....

Aware of the experience factor, but thanks, just nice to get a sensible post.

 

[Dcf]

I have both luckins and spons books and Richard is right there isn't prices for cutting in boxes / raggles.
i would say that to cut into hard block and fix a box to a decent standard takes between 20 and 30 minutes
soft block between 10-15 minutes.
most bill of quantities I've done have Chasing/raggles as a PC sum item.
ive also lost a few where I've allowed say 500 quid for raggling and other contractors have put "by main contractor"
the surveyor hasn't picked it up and then found my competitors 500 quid cheaper than me,until they start on site and tell them the bulder is to do the cutting out.
maybe just price it say using a second year apprentice ( if you have one) for how many weeks the 1st fix take x overheads x profit / how many linear metres and boxes there is to cut in to give you a rate
i wouldn't over anylyse it tbh.
i came into possession of a bill of quantities of a 50k job by 2 different teams
one had high PC and spot item rates vs low unit rates, the other had lower PC and spot item rates vs higher unit rates.......
there was about 1k between them.